I don't want to speak for other people but I believe Lauren may have taken offence to the link you posted since the documentation in the link basically says Wiccans may or may not be opening themselves up to "demons" when they are casting spells and also speaks of only being saved if you are a follower of Jesus etc. This is a point of view of some Christians and not really something I would assume Spowers had in mind when starting this topic.
I usually do not get involved in religious or political debates, however I was born and raised catholic, I went to 12 years of catholic school, went to Mass every Sunday etc, in high school for 4 years our religion classes were "religions of the world" we learned about every major religion past and present. We were fortunate to have that opportunity to learn about other religions including Wicca, our teachers thankfully never condemned these other religions, they never said if they were right or wrong, we just learned about the facts of all different religions. I am not a practicing catholic and haven't been for a number of years but I'm well versed in their beliefs as well as the beliefs of many other religions. One of my very best friends is wiccan, she was born and raised in it and is one of the most loving, forgiving, peaceful people I have ever met. One of my childhood friends that I'm still friends with is a Roman Catholic Priest, one of my other friends is Jewish, one of my brother in laws is Protestant, my neighbors are Lutheran. Ever since high school I have always found peoples beliefs fascinating. The only religion I have ever thought was a little strange was Scientology, but hey my motto is as long as you aren't hurting others then practice whatever makes you happy.
The Roman Catholic Church is the official first Christian church and the true church (according to Catholicism). St. Peter was the first pope of the church, this church became what is known today as the Roman Catholic Church. When certain people came along and decided they didn't want to follow all the catholic rules because they didn't suit them, they branched off and created their own churches, such as King Henry of England when he wanted to get an annulment to marry another woman the Pope said no he would be committing adultery if he did that etc so King Henry started his own church called the Protestant church. Every branch of Christianity that has gathered and created their own churches have done so because they didn't want to follow the rules or beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church. The same way some Christians believe their faith is the only one true faith and they want to convert or save non believers to their faith, the catholic church feels that even if you are a "Christian" unless you are a roman catholic and confess your sins to a roman catholic priest as well as partaking in the sacraments of the catholic church then you will not go directly to heaven when you die, perhaps you may go to purgatory or worse "hell". I'm sure this does not sit well with Christians who are not roman catholic just as I'm sure people of other religions don't want to hear about being saved especially by someone outside of their faith.
I understand being passionate about one's religion. I don't think it's fair to ask other people to believe your faith when they have no interest in your faith, if someone wants to discuss Allah, The Goddess, Buddha, Ganesh, Yahweh or any other deity or religion they should have the freedom to do so without fear or hesitancy and without trying to be converted or without having others point out why they think their religion is wrong. I am sure that Christians everywhere believe in their religion but does it not make you feel bad to be told that the Roman Catholic Church is the church Jesus started and if you are not a part of that church weather you are Christian or not you will not be saved? It doesn't feel good does it? This is the belief of a lot of Old School thinking and thankfully some Roman Catholic Priests are shying away from this teaching.
Can we?
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Guest
I looked at your profile and read over some of your others posts this morning and found that you are very arrogant and just as rude as I. What caught my attention is the fact that very few people have acknowledged your posts. :p So it's not just me wondering who is this guy to be so arrogant. Your all over this forum dropping boldness and everyone pretty basically ignores you. You take every opportunity to inject God into every conversation and then infect others with your superior beliefs about him. You seem to be the know all of IT ALL. As for myself, I do not think I am as rude as much as I am matter of fact. No room for misunderstandings.
As for showing disrespect for Spowers, nice try Gman. You can manipulate SOME some of the time but not ALL all of the time. YOUR disrespectful and manipulative. That's the meat of it. As for being a bully? If being a bully means standing up to those that rule the yard, count me in.
As for showing disrespect for Spowers, nice try Gman. You can manipulate SOME some of the time but not ALL all of the time. YOUR disrespectful and manipulative. That's the meat of it. As for being a bully? If being a bully means standing up to those that rule the yard, count me in.
An open mind, it's a beautiful thing. -
Guest
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Guest
My dearest Lauren,
That is your opinion, and that's cool with me. I can and live with your judgment about me. Don't hate me because I have done my studies and you rely on personal attacks. That's what folks that don’t have their facts together do. Please keep in mind, I have tried to steer away from the mention of the bible and or Christ, but you let Eastcoastgirl slip in her views on Christianity. Thank you!
Here is my defense: 1 Cor. 4:1-5, Rom 1:16, 2 Cor 7:14, 2 Titus 1:12.
Lauren, aren't you ashamed, that at every opportunity, I or others suggested that the discussion begin about whatever religion whoever wanted to speak about; you interjected yourself to go on personal attacks.
Why is that?
Eastcoastgirl, Lauren probably doesn't care about any of this; but for your benefit why don't you check these citations out? BTW, the only link I posted was about Wicca. Yes, it is on a Christian research site, but I also asked if there was anything there that they felt needed clarification or correction would they please provide it. I do understand, everyone makes mistakes, she could have availed herself, not to defend, because no one ever implied that she had to defend her faith, but give us her point of view or provide guidance on any misconceptions that may have been on that site. I have seen mistakes made there.
She or anyone wanting an honest dialog could have chimed in or provided some link to refute, if that is what they wished, or just simply begin the discussion. I think everyone could agree that there are all kinds of research, not just on this subject, but a multitude of subjects, that have different points of view, and I don't think they ever break down into the type of rants and personal attacks displayed here. Judge what the Spirit within you is telling you.
Who has spoken with self control? Who has spoken without fear? Who has spoken with greater love? Who has spoken with the power of the word? Who has steered away from personal attacks? Asking questions is not an attack!
Eastcoastgirl, I would like for you to try and find a book on the history of the early church, translated into English. The author of this primary work was Eusebius. He was a 4th century Bishop and Historian of the early church and then you will find out who was the first Bishop of Rome (Peter) Second Bishop Rome was Paul and the third Bishop of Rome was Clement. You will also find out that that title of Pope did not exist until the 3rd century, and that is the title the Bishop of Alexandria, Egypt, gave himself, in I believe it was 234 AD. These are historical facts, not myth or legend.
Eusebius is one of the most respected Church Historians in of all of Christianity. He was witness, participant, and a historical primary source of the Council of Nicene. I can speak boldly on these matters; because I am a student of the early church History and spent countless hours studying these things. Additionally, the Apostle Peter choose not to be the first Bishop of Jerusalem, but instead, opted to let that honor go to James the Righteous. According to these early church documents, James the Righteous was the brother of our Lord.
Nevertheless, don't take my word for any of this you can talk to your Pastor or Bishop and find out if I am speaking truth or fiction. There is room for debate on these matters. However, I think an honest and faithful reading of these facts can resolve those questions. I will tell you something else about this great Historian Bishop; he obtained all relevant church Historical documents, from primary sources in their original manuscripts of other 1st. and 2nd. Century historians. He pulled together all the threads together to be able to write his own reports of all things having to do with the earliest of church historians. These priceless, primary source documents; are mostly kept in the Vatican, and some are kept in the custody of The Anglican Church of England.
I don't write or speak on anything that I do not have some personal experience, background, or reason based on facts. Opinions are not facts, I can back up what I say, and mange myself and things I will talk about with FACTS, not speculation, not myth, not legend, not gossip, but FACTS!
Here is a link I just pulled up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius_of_Caesarea
Eastcoastgirl, if you get the book suggested; you will find out that everything I am saying is all true. This is one of the ways we can be certain that the Gospel accounts and all the books of the New Testament are more accurate than and of the works cited at any humanities course, at any university. This was all made possible because of the faithfulness of this servant of the Lord.
I didn't decide to come here to overwhelm anyone. I am passing along valid and irrefutable information. I can do this based on historical facts and or Biblical facts.
spowers, I apologize for what has happened. I really wanted to know more about your religious views, and your desire to speak about your religion, but for, the discussion to break down in the way it did, and we may have accomplished that. I tried to speak on these matters with as much love as I could muster, and be sensitive to you, and your needs. I tried to refrain from expressing my opinion on my own beliefs, but the door was slammed open and continued with personal attacks on me. I can take the personal attacks, but I ran out of cheeks. Moreover, I could not contain, the love in my heart for my Savior; Christ Jesus, and to that I plead guilty on that charge. I am sure you could speak with the same passion as anyone, if given an opportunity. I have my door and my mind open to whatever you have or wish to share; if you still want to.
I hope all will have a heightened sensitivity to you and your feelings as we strive to stay, as you wish, "on topic." If I did something wrong on my posts prior to Lauren jumping into this; I will review all my comments and see if I can tell if I did anything wrong. If I did do something wrong prior to this post, please accept my apologies in advance.
Please PM me and let me know; if I ask a question about anything, is that an attack on my part? If so, please explain how a question can be an attack, as I thought any scholar trying to get to the heart of any subject matter, does so through questioning, and thus a question can not be considered as an attack; it is an inquiring mind.
Thank you for your thoughtfulness and for taking and reading my reply.
Sincerely,
Gman
That is your opinion, and that's cool with me. I can and live with your judgment about me. Don't hate me because I have done my studies and you rely on personal attacks. That's what folks that don’t have their facts together do. Please keep in mind, I have tried to steer away from the mention of the bible and or Christ, but you let Eastcoastgirl slip in her views on Christianity. Thank you!
Here is my defense: 1 Cor. 4:1-5, Rom 1:16, 2 Cor 7:14, 2 Titus 1:12.
Lauren, aren't you ashamed, that at every opportunity, I or others suggested that the discussion begin about whatever religion whoever wanted to speak about; you interjected yourself to go on personal attacks.
Why is that?
Eastcoastgirl, Lauren probably doesn't care about any of this; but for your benefit why don't you check these citations out? BTW, the only link I posted was about Wicca. Yes, it is on a Christian research site, but I also asked if there was anything there that they felt needed clarification or correction would they please provide it. I do understand, everyone makes mistakes, she could have availed herself, not to defend, because no one ever implied that she had to defend her faith, but give us her point of view or provide guidance on any misconceptions that may have been on that site. I have seen mistakes made there.
She or anyone wanting an honest dialog could have chimed in or provided some link to refute, if that is what they wished, or just simply begin the discussion. I think everyone could agree that there are all kinds of research, not just on this subject, but a multitude of subjects, that have different points of view, and I don't think they ever break down into the type of rants and personal attacks displayed here. Judge what the Spirit within you is telling you.
Who has spoken with self control? Who has spoken without fear? Who has spoken with greater love? Who has spoken with the power of the word? Who has steered away from personal attacks? Asking questions is not an attack!
Eastcoastgirl, I would like for you to try and find a book on the history of the early church, translated into English. The author of this primary work was Eusebius. He was a 4th century Bishop and Historian of the early church and then you will find out who was the first Bishop of Rome (Peter) Second Bishop Rome was Paul and the third Bishop of Rome was Clement. You will also find out that that title of Pope did not exist until the 3rd century, and that is the title the Bishop of Alexandria, Egypt, gave himself, in I believe it was 234 AD. These are historical facts, not myth or legend.
Eusebius is one of the most respected Church Historians in of all of Christianity. He was witness, participant, and a historical primary source of the Council of Nicene. I can speak boldly on these matters; because I am a student of the early church History and spent countless hours studying these things. Additionally, the Apostle Peter choose not to be the first Bishop of Jerusalem, but instead, opted to let that honor go to James the Righteous. According to these early church documents, James the Righteous was the brother of our Lord.
Nevertheless, don't take my word for any of this you can talk to your Pastor or Bishop and find out if I am speaking truth or fiction. There is room for debate on these matters. However, I think an honest and faithful reading of these facts can resolve those questions. I will tell you something else about this great Historian Bishop; he obtained all relevant church Historical documents, from primary sources in their original manuscripts of other 1st. and 2nd. Century historians. He pulled together all the threads together to be able to write his own reports of all things having to do with the earliest of church historians. These priceless, primary source documents; are mostly kept in the Vatican, and some are kept in the custody of The Anglican Church of England.
I don't write or speak on anything that I do not have some personal experience, background, or reason based on facts. Opinions are not facts, I can back up what I say, and mange myself and things I will talk about with FACTS, not speculation, not myth, not legend, not gossip, but FACTS!
Here is a link I just pulled up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius_of_Caesarea
Eastcoastgirl, if you get the book suggested; you will find out that everything I am saying is all true. This is one of the ways we can be certain that the Gospel accounts and all the books of the New Testament are more accurate than and of the works cited at any humanities course, at any university. This was all made possible because of the faithfulness of this servant of the Lord.
I didn't decide to come here to overwhelm anyone. I am passing along valid and irrefutable information. I can do this based on historical facts and or Biblical facts.
spowers, I apologize for what has happened. I really wanted to know more about your religious views, and your desire to speak about your religion, but for, the discussion to break down in the way it did, and we may have accomplished that. I tried to speak on these matters with as much love as I could muster, and be sensitive to you, and your needs. I tried to refrain from expressing my opinion on my own beliefs, but the door was slammed open and continued with personal attacks on me. I can take the personal attacks, but I ran out of cheeks. Moreover, I could not contain, the love in my heart for my Savior; Christ Jesus, and to that I plead guilty on that charge. I am sure you could speak with the same passion as anyone, if given an opportunity. I have my door and my mind open to whatever you have or wish to share; if you still want to.
I hope all will have a heightened sensitivity to you and your feelings as we strive to stay, as you wish, "on topic." If I did something wrong on my posts prior to Lauren jumping into this; I will review all my comments and see if I can tell if I did anything wrong. If I did do something wrong prior to this post, please accept my apologies in advance.
Please PM me and let me know; if I ask a question about anything, is that an attack on my part? If so, please explain how a question can be an attack, as I thought any scholar trying to get to the heart of any subject matter, does so through questioning, and thus a question can not be considered as an attack; it is an inquiring mind.
Thank you for your thoughtfulness and for taking and reading my reply.
Sincerely,
Gman
Gman, you continue to apologize and then proceed to state that you know it all while there may be some room for error. ugh. I sure wish they would just ban you from this site as you create havoc where it need not be! You are not acting as a bringer of good news (that's what Christians call it right?) but a closed minded, arrogant know it all. IMO you know VERY little about God. What you do know is religion. Nothing more my friend. 
And do not get me started on religion. I could challenge you word for word and I guarantee you would not be able to stay the challenge. :p God does not act like you nor did Jesus. Check your bible scriptures for that. BTW, your posts are too long to get through. You have way too much to say and it's hard for people with a short attention span to get through.
And do not get me started on religion. I could challenge you word for word and I guarantee you would not be able to stay the challenge. :p God does not act like you nor did Jesus. Check your bible scriptures for that. BTW, your posts are too long to get through. You have way too much to say and it's hard for people with a short attention span to get through.-
Guest
For anyone actually interested in learning about Wicca, www.witchvox.com or any books by Scott Cunningham are great places to start.
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Guest
Hi all,
spowers, if you would please continue sharing with us, I would appreciate it. I am sure the same holds true for others. I promise to ignore personal attacks, like I said, I ran out of cheeks.
BTW, I did review every comments that I made, I only made one mention of a religion, but I was speaking in a broader sense, and I was never offensive in any remark I made, nor was there any such intention. However, I did everything I could to give you the floor, and even pressed for you to do so.
If you look for evil intentions, I suppose you could find it in any comment. What did chick little mean when he said the sky was falling?
Thanks for posting something, and I agree with you. You just posted before I did.
I'll check into the link.
Thanks again,
Gman
spowers, if you would please continue sharing with us, I would appreciate it. I am sure the same holds true for others. I promise to ignore personal attacks, like I said, I ran out of cheeks.
BTW, I did review every comments that I made, I only made one mention of a religion, but I was speaking in a broader sense, and I was never offensive in any remark I made, nor was there any such intention. However, I did everything I could to give you the floor, and even pressed for you to do so.
If you look for evil intentions, I suppose you could find it in any comment. What did chick little mean when he said the sky was falling?
Thanks for posting something, and I agree with you. You just posted before I did.
I'll check into the link.
Thanks again,
Gman
You shouldn't be reluctant to bring it up "Spowers" you could of just punched in WICCA and found YOURSELF here. Not that I am implying that you posted there under a different name or anything like that.Gman and Lauren, can you take your pettiness somewhere else? Stop responding to each other! This is exactly why I was reluctant to start this thread.
http://bbs.stresscenter.com/ev...371043772#5371043772
You could have also looked under 1jzsc300, Doogiet or even Sporatic and they would have had some similar interests to share with you.
Seeing that you are not here for pettiness, please do share what it is that you were hoping to share or was what you were hoping for already accomplished?