I'm on a little bit of weird mission right now. I'd really like anything you might know about this and holes that you see in what I've read. No, it's not a book but maybe one day.
I'm looking at the neurology/biology of anxiety, depression, migraines and pain, etc.
I've had it up to my eyeballs with hearing things like "you're not living right, snap out of it, you're not giving it to the Lord, God is working on you for some reason, do you like to worry, just pray, just TRY to relax, just don't worry about anything, don't you want to get better, etc." Me, you, and a couple of friends of mine are really all I have to go on, but it seems like, not only do we have to live with anxiety and/or depression, we also have the extra strike against us of not having the kind of sympathy and help/support that people who suffer with "legitimate" diseases have because there's lack of knowledge, misunderstanding and ignorance out there. And by legitimate, I mean diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc. People would bend over backwards to help you through those, including many doctors who dismiss "mental issues." Those illnesses are "understandable in other's eyes." People are so uncomfortable with what we have that they shy away from us and say things like: he's crazy, she ain't right, they are reaping what they sowed, he can't deal with stress, she wants to be that way, etc. No wonder we tend to hide it all from people!
My faith is a valuable tool in coping and a major part of my life, but I just don't see this as faith issue/failure. Nor do I see this as weak living, enjoyment, or failure to get a grip, though those things may be a contributing factor in some cases I suppose. And, I DO see how my learned behavior/response/coping skills/reactions to A & D are a major factor in how bad it gets.
So, to the point, it all seems to point to those little chemical/hormone thingys in the brain. Cortisol, the stress hormone, is released in greater quantity for some than others and during some situations than others. It's like a toxic chemical in high levels and our body tries to react and compensate and can freak out from not knowing what's wrong. Seratonin levels, the feel good hormone are low in some people. They are saying a part of our brain is smaller- the part that receives the seratonin and it ends up not functioning like in a person with a normal sized receptor (30% less), hence a naturally/genetic link to tendencies for depression and anxiety- why two people may experience the same challenges in life, but one is more susceptible to A & D, the other is not. Sometimes, neurotransmittors don't get from one point to the other. The brain responds by sending the message again and again, faster and faster. The body and mind react to the overstimulation= anxiety.
In some people the transmittors are naturally overactive and you have hypersensitivity, mania or ADD. For some, there's a wild fluctuation= bipolar.
So, depression comes on when your body and mind are worn out from trying to adapt and cope (exahustion). Don't confuse grief (short term in conjunction with events or loss in your life)with depression. You fail in your attempts to fight it off or hide it by occupying yourself in another way (from the flight or fight reaction). Also stomach problems, migraines, muscle tension and a host of other things pop up. We respond the wrong way which is what this program is trying to change. I think it's Boon who always wisely says to just let it come and pass. Maybe b/c the brain will adjust itself and go back to normal if we don't keep the cycle going?
Our brain circuitry is different, and we may perceive there to be real danger in a stuck elevator while someone else relaxes waiting for the firemen- we get a false alarm that something bad is going to happen. We process events and emotions differently naturally.
Our bodies and mind react like we came upon a bear (haha- I typed bar first) in the wilderness. I'll bet a bar in the woods wouldn't be so bad at times- lol.
Instead of the andrenoline and response getting us away from the bear to survive, since there's often an imagined threat, our energy is channelled into muscle tension, hyperventalation, sweating, confusion, PANIC. Your judgment and reasoning get all jammed up. You can't comprehend the ton of negative sensations in the body and brain. In the first panic attacks, wasn't it easy to assume the worst- heart attack, death, on and on? It's hard for us to comprehend whether it's really harmful or threatening.
If you actually read to this point, you get a autographed copy of my book when it comes out!
From a neurological point
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bevhembree
- Posts: 275
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:44 am
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Guest
Well, I read to the end! Yes, the amygdala is a very interesting part of the brain! As my psychiatrist recently explained to me...
"People with panic disorder have shorter (in length) cells than those without the disorder. Therefore, because they are shorter receptors and not of normal length, they cannot act/react in a "normal" manner."
Now, figure that out, LOL!!!
Anyway, good luck with your writing!
"People with panic disorder have shorter (in length) cells than those without the disorder. Therefore, because they are shorter receptors and not of normal length, they cannot act/react in a "normal" manner."
Now, figure that out, LOL!!!
Anyway, good luck with your writing!
Hello -
Funny you should write this: yesterday, I got my Newsweek and it has an article called "Sad Brain, Happy Brain". I read it with interest, since I am a long time sufferer of anxiety/depression/panic. It states that "fear is extraordinarily efficient...signals travel between the amygdala and your crisis system before the visual part of your brain has a chance to 'see'" It goes on to state "organisms with slower responses probably did not get the opportunity to pass their genetic material along".
I've often wondered if those of us with high stress responses, with our keen sense of smell, taste, etc aren't somehow the genetic celebrities of yesteryear. Now, in today's fast-paced, chaotic world those genetics are working against us.
I will say that since doing the program, and a year of "practice" of limiting negative self-talk, lowering expectations, etc, I never suffer panic attacks; I ride out mini depressions and other crisis'; and I'm able to crank down my anxiety responses so it doesn't become chronic or problematic.
The best think I learned it to "float" with it. That has got me out of more stuff then you can imagine. I wish I'd have known this stuff earlier, but the good news is I'm teaching my kids these lessons. My son is prone to anxiety much as I am and I've seen his anxiety level decrease dramatically. Some of us may be prone to anxiety/depression due to our genetics, but I believe it doesn't have to debilitate you. Just like the person with a suseptibility to type II diabetes can watch their weight, we can avoid letting anxiety ruin the quality of our lives.
I think you are on the right track and knowledge and understanding is the path to get you where you want to go!
Funny you should write this: yesterday, I got my Newsweek and it has an article called "Sad Brain, Happy Brain". I read it with interest, since I am a long time sufferer of anxiety/depression/panic. It states that "fear is extraordinarily efficient...signals travel between the amygdala and your crisis system before the visual part of your brain has a chance to 'see'" It goes on to state "organisms with slower responses probably did not get the opportunity to pass their genetic material along".
I've often wondered if those of us with high stress responses, with our keen sense of smell, taste, etc aren't somehow the genetic celebrities of yesteryear. Now, in today's fast-paced, chaotic world those genetics are working against us.
I will say that since doing the program, and a year of "practice" of limiting negative self-talk, lowering expectations, etc, I never suffer panic attacks; I ride out mini depressions and other crisis'; and I'm able to crank down my anxiety responses so it doesn't become chronic or problematic.
The best think I learned it to "float" with it. That has got me out of more stuff then you can imagine. I wish I'd have known this stuff earlier, but the good news is I'm teaching my kids these lessons. My son is prone to anxiety much as I am and I've seen his anxiety level decrease dramatically. Some of us may be prone to anxiety/depression due to our genetics, but I believe it doesn't have to debilitate you. Just like the person with a suseptibility to type II diabetes can watch their weight, we can avoid letting anxiety ruin the quality of our lives.
I think you are on the right track and knowledge and understanding is the path to get you where you want to go!
"life is 10% of what happens to you, and 90% of how you react to it."
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Guest
interesting.
i would agree along the lines of tweaky1h, though.
my concern with looking at it all as a biochemical issue is that you are accepting that as the be all and end all of anxiety and depression.
i believe that the chemical and genetic tendency is more of an explanation of the how, and not as much of the why. otherwise, recovery would be impossible save for medication.
true, we more be more susceptible and reactive to events, but I do not accept that possibility alone dooms us to a life of suffering.
Exercise, prayer, CBT, this program...all are of tremendous value, and have helped pull me out of the dark hole that is panic disorder.
i would agree along the lines of tweaky1h, though.
my concern with looking at it all as a biochemical issue is that you are accepting that as the be all and end all of anxiety and depression.
i believe that the chemical and genetic tendency is more of an explanation of the how, and not as much of the why. otherwise, recovery would be impossible save for medication.
true, we more be more susceptible and reactive to events, but I do not accept that possibility alone dooms us to a life of suffering.
Exercise, prayer, CBT, this program...all are of tremendous value, and have helped pull me out of the dark hole that is panic disorder.
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Tinkerella
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:06 am
Thanks Tweaky and Paul,
It makes me feel a little better to know there is a biological basis for some of what is happening. Though, in my case, I believe I have learned bad coping skills and behavior which I am attempting to correct with therapy and this program. No I don't think that makes it an end all- just an acceptance that I have a tendency to be A & D so I need to be careful to watch myself and how I react to things. I think this is as controllable as epilepsy but that doesn't mean it goes away. You just learn to manage and how to handle an attack if you get one.
It makes me feel less crazy and more that there is really something up there not functioning right for me to feel this way. After years of not knowing what was happening, I can now find more positive, relaxing ways to handle the episodes instead of continuing in the same path where I was. I just couldn't buy it that I was suffering b/c I wasn't "living right" and was supposed to "snap out of it."
And meds can restore the balance of chemicals in your brain if we suffer to that extent- that's hopeful also.
No, I will never just accept it and let it take me down. I will fight and spread understanding and awareness to everyone I can!
It makes me feel a little better to know there is a biological basis for some of what is happening. Though, in my case, I believe I have learned bad coping skills and behavior which I am attempting to correct with therapy and this program. No I don't think that makes it an end all- just an acceptance that I have a tendency to be A & D so I need to be careful to watch myself and how I react to things. I think this is as controllable as epilepsy but that doesn't mean it goes away. You just learn to manage and how to handle an attack if you get one.
It makes me feel less crazy and more that there is really something up there not functioning right for me to feel this way. After years of not knowing what was happening, I can now find more positive, relaxing ways to handle the episodes instead of continuing in the same path where I was. I just couldn't buy it that I was suffering b/c I wasn't "living right" and was supposed to "snap out of it."
And meds can restore the balance of chemicals in your brain if we suffer to that extent- that's hopeful also.
No, I will never just accept it and let it take me down. I will fight and spread understanding and awareness to everyone I can!
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Guest
Hello Tweaky1h-------I found your response interesting and helpful, as I too had some of those concerns about the physical causes of anxiety. I was wondering if you used any Self Talk CDs or if you did it all on you own? I have two from a company called Think Right International that seem to promise a lot, but am unsure about them. If you see this reply, I would be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks, and have a wonderful day.
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Guest
Hey bevhembree
I saw the thread name and I figured i'd share my knowledge on the subject. I've had a bit of training on stress on both physical and psychological levels. The exhaustion you are talking about is that of the adrenals. If you're intrested you can read up on Hans Selye. This guy is really famous when it comes to Stress Theory. I'll give you a bit of a brief of what i know. I really had to dig this one up...i made a thread on this in 2006.
Lets talk about the stress response. What happens is when an external stressor happens, your Hypothalamus releases a chemical which activates the Pituitary into releasing it's hormones (Growth hormone, adrenal stimulating hormone and a few others) and one of these stimulates the adrenals to release it's hormones (Epinephrine, Norepinephrine & Cortisol).
Epinephrine & Norepinephrine are the 2 hormones which bring upon the fight or flight response...they bring the blood from the organs to the muscles, they dilate the eyes, supress the digestive and immune system, increase blood pressure, increase heart rate and a few other things.
Cortisol is the hormone which shuts off the stress response as the hypothalamus continues to send a response via the HPA axis (hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal), until it gets turned off. The problem is that cortisol is similar to heroine in the way that the more you have a need for it...the more of it you will need in order to have the same effect as the body becomes more tolerable to it.
Alarm stage:
Short term physiological mobilization. Adrenaline and cortisol increase, blood flows away from brain to muscles, dendrites shrink back in the brain as a way of moderating the flow of information, slowing or shutting down of nonessential body functions (e.g. gastrointestinal sexual systems, and immune systems) takes place.
Resistance stage:
The body maintains a constant level of cortisol unless the stressor has been resolved.
Exhaustion stage:
Initial stage - If stress persists - reserves of energy are used. Body continues in Alarm stage mode. Fatigue results as the body fails to adapt. Self-medication and self-comforting coping skills are utilized. There is increased anxiety. Decreased ability to concentrate and stay on task. Greater susceptibility to minor illnesses.
Advance stage - Energy reserves are depleted. Body systems begin to malfunction and there is a much greater susceptibility to serious illnesses. Increased use of self-medication and maladaptive self-comforting methods. Normal process in which the stomach lining constantly replenishes itself to counteract digestive fluids is put on hold. Eating for comfort during this time can cause damage to the stomach. Typical appetite and eating patterns are disturbed. Increased irritability, poor judgment and personality changes. Physical and emotional problems.
There is a bigger model you could look at as well which gets a little more complicated. I actually didn't quite get the other model so i'm not going to go into it.
I would like to say the amygdala is a significant part of the brain as it is the center of both emotions and memory. It is part of the Limbic system (emotional center) and this actually plays an important role in that other model. If you'd like you can find it for yourself in Hans Selye's book.
I would like to mention though that I completely understand about what it is like to have people not understand about how we are feeling. I've gotten people saying...you're young you should have lots of energy or you shouldn't need as much sleep or how come you can't do this or that. It gets really frustrating but honestly it is completely normal for us to respond the way we respond because look whats going on inside us...when you are burnt out you are burnt out. You wouldn't run a marathon if you were all akey and tired would you? Probabbly not...So don't expect yourself to run a mental marathon when you're mentally akey.
Mike
I saw the thread name and I figured i'd share my knowledge on the subject. I've had a bit of training on stress on both physical and psychological levels. The exhaustion you are talking about is that of the adrenals. If you're intrested you can read up on Hans Selye. This guy is really famous when it comes to Stress Theory. I'll give you a bit of a brief of what i know. I really had to dig this one up...i made a thread on this in 2006.
Lets talk about the stress response. What happens is when an external stressor happens, your Hypothalamus releases a chemical which activates the Pituitary into releasing it's hormones (Growth hormone, adrenal stimulating hormone and a few others) and one of these stimulates the adrenals to release it's hormones (Epinephrine, Norepinephrine & Cortisol).
Epinephrine & Norepinephrine are the 2 hormones which bring upon the fight or flight response...they bring the blood from the organs to the muscles, they dilate the eyes, supress the digestive and immune system, increase blood pressure, increase heart rate and a few other things.
Cortisol is the hormone which shuts off the stress response as the hypothalamus continues to send a response via the HPA axis (hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal), until it gets turned off. The problem is that cortisol is similar to heroine in the way that the more you have a need for it...the more of it you will need in order to have the same effect as the body becomes more tolerable to it.
Alarm stage:
Short term physiological mobilization. Adrenaline and cortisol increase, blood flows away from brain to muscles, dendrites shrink back in the brain as a way of moderating the flow of information, slowing or shutting down of nonessential body functions (e.g. gastrointestinal sexual systems, and immune systems) takes place.
Resistance stage:
The body maintains a constant level of cortisol unless the stressor has been resolved.
Exhaustion stage:
Initial stage - If stress persists - reserves of energy are used. Body continues in Alarm stage mode. Fatigue results as the body fails to adapt. Self-medication and self-comforting coping skills are utilized. There is increased anxiety. Decreased ability to concentrate and stay on task. Greater susceptibility to minor illnesses.
Advance stage - Energy reserves are depleted. Body systems begin to malfunction and there is a much greater susceptibility to serious illnesses. Increased use of self-medication and maladaptive self-comforting methods. Normal process in which the stomach lining constantly replenishes itself to counteract digestive fluids is put on hold. Eating for comfort during this time can cause damage to the stomach. Typical appetite and eating patterns are disturbed. Increased irritability, poor judgment and personality changes. Physical and emotional problems.
There is a bigger model you could look at as well which gets a little more complicated. I actually didn't quite get the other model so i'm not going to go into it.
I would like to say the amygdala is a significant part of the brain as it is the center of both emotions and memory. It is part of the Limbic system (emotional center) and this actually plays an important role in that other model. If you'd like you can find it for yourself in Hans Selye's book.
I would like to mention though that I completely understand about what it is like to have people not understand about how we are feeling. I've gotten people saying...you're young you should have lots of energy or you shouldn't need as much sleep or how come you can't do this or that. It gets really frustrating but honestly it is completely normal for us to respond the way we respond because look whats going on inside us...when you are burnt out you are burnt out. You wouldn't run a marathon if you were all akey and tired would you? Probabbly not...So don't expect yourself to run a mental marathon when you're mentally akey.
Mike
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Guest
Wow, thanks Mike. Somehow it feels a little better to try to have an understanding of what is happening and why. It negates that feeling of "I'm going to die" when you are having a panic attack to know that there's just some things not quite functioning like they are supposed to or working overtime. That was hard for me to overcome b/c I've been in the ER really FEELING like I was going to die. Silly, maybe, but real nonetheless. I'd love the name of his book. Or are all his books similar?
Thanks for the trouble of getting your hands on the info again.
Have agreat weekend all- I'm off to prepare my son's birthday party for 30 family and friends. Lots of cooking and cleaning to get done- AAAAHHHH! Hopefully, I can post this in Triumphs tomorrow after everyone leaves!
Thanks for the trouble of getting your hands on the info again.
Have agreat weekend all- I'm off to prepare my son's birthday party for 30 family and friends. Lots of cooking and cleaning to get done- AAAAHHHH! Hopefully, I can post this in Triumphs tomorrow after everyone leaves!
Mike,
thanks for the info.
according to selye's theory, i have been in the advanced stage for a long time.
for a long time, i could not figure out why i had this persistent mental fatigue type feeling...as if my body was fine but my MIND was exhausted.
after you helping bring this to light, now i am sure that it was mental exhaustion from ANXIETY that caused this feeling.
currently, i have had my 1st day competely "tired head" free in about 1-2 years. i am coming back from a relaxing weekend at a cabin in the smoky mountains of tennessee with my wife, sister, brother-in-law, nephew, and our dogs.
to top it all off, i come home and my football team won!
hey- i pray that we all recover and assume our new roles in this world- that being anxiety free.
God Bless all of you.
and thanks again Mike, for supporting what I have believed for a long time, but just never validated it.
thanks for the info.
according to selye's theory, i have been in the advanced stage for a long time.
for a long time, i could not figure out why i had this persistent mental fatigue type feeling...as if my body was fine but my MIND was exhausted.
after you helping bring this to light, now i am sure that it was mental exhaustion from ANXIETY that caused this feeling.
currently, i have had my 1st day competely "tired head" free in about 1-2 years. i am coming back from a relaxing weekend at a cabin in the smoky mountains of tennessee with my wife, sister, brother-in-law, nephew, and our dogs.
to top it all off, i come home and my football team won!
hey- i pray that we all recover and assume our new roles in this world- that being anxiety free.
God Bless all of you.
and thanks again Mike, for supporting what I have believed for a long time, but just never validated it.
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Guest