For followers of "less popular" spiritual path's
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Guest
hey there peeps, my religion is very simple. it is my head. i have my god with me. i know when i do the wrong thing. my concious s/c? tells me. that is my god. if i talk to my god, i get an answer. for example; i am lazy at this time. god is telling me to work on my gad/dep. i'm not listening, soooooooo that is a sin. one of the deadly ones. i also ate ice cream yesterday 3 servings. another deadly one. i can't be a christian. because i just don't believe it. i also have christain friends here. they are lotsa fun. peace n love, kp
As a Christian, a born again christian...we are commanded to let our fruits of the spirit speak. We are also commanded not to shove our beliefs down anyone's throats. God has given us a free will to believe in what we choose. Wrong/Right/Indifferent. Free Will!!! I think we all need to respect that not everyone will believe the way we do. And people arent going to certainly want to listen on this kind of level!!!
This site isnt intended for the drama I have just read. I believe it to encourage each other through one very common thread and that is anxiety.
This site isnt intended for the drama I have just read. I believe it to encourage each other through one very common thread and that is anxiety.
Shannan
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BeatAnxiety07
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:19 am
Glass,
You're Welcome and if you would like to learn more about reaching that Enlightenment I would encourage you to read
"Acceptance of what is" Wagne Liquorman
"Never Mind" Wagne Liquorman
-----------------------------------------------
Some good references to Anxiety in Taoist Teachings/Articles:
<span class="ev_code_blue">The last lesson that I will speak of is being centered inside oneself. Before I left for Taiwan, I went to Mr. Bunting's house and we shared our thoughts about our upcoming trip. I expressed some anxiety about leaving the state I have known for all of my life but as I look back, I almost laugh at how unfounded my anxiety was. Mr. Bunting told me, “If you find your center, you can go anywhere in this world and always be at home.” I had to repeat that to myself because it made so much sense. At times, whenever I feel tired or sad, all I have to do is put my hands together, bow my head and concentrate on my mystic portal to find the center inside myself. And suddenly, I don't feel so fatigued or unhappy. I feel content and at peace because I know I have the Buddha Nature within me, just like it is in every one of you.</span>
Full Article: <A HREF="http://www.taoism.net/ikuantao/taiwan/fish.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.taoism.net/ikuantao/taiwan/fish.htm</A>
I believe this applys to the "comfort zone" portion of our disorders. A comfort zone differs for different people. The most common form of a comfort zone is a persons home. Many people become agoraphobic and fear leaving their homes. For others a comfort zone can be a person (friend etc), forums such as this, etc...
Taoism teaches that this comfort zone is always with you. The comfort zone is within yourself. If you can learn to center your mind and focus in on the present; you can find this comfort zone. Sometimes closing your eyes, taking a deep breath, and exhaling while saying "let go" or "calm" can help you to center your mind. Once you reach a balanced center of you brain you become an observer of what is happening around you. Next, after seperating yourself, from -- well -- yourself, you can begin to realize what has been creating a lot of your anxiety.
Finally, true enlightenment, is becoming one with everything. A toltec would say this is the realization that you are in fact God and everything around you is God. God is all there is. Just simply be... Some refer to those who are not enlightened as "Sleeping Gods". The Tao Te Ching while refering to the Tao states: "The Tao is all there is, I do not know where it came from. It is older than God." Esssentially I view God as being a manifestation of our minds after seperating from the Tao. The Tao is truly all there is; it exists in all times and all places there is no beginning their is no end; there simply is. This can be difficult to explain and/or grasp but again: "The spoken Tao is not the true Tao."
^probably seems far out to Christians huh?
A deeper look into Taoism and Toltec Teachings:
Our level of consciousness is what makes us feel separate. Adam and Eve ate from the "Tree of Knowledge" and became "like" God knowing and understanding the difference between good and evil and thus leaving the "garden of eden". Or rather, one day a cave man woke up and looked at their hand and said this is my hand; a cave women looks at a pond and sees a flower stuck in her hair: "She says I look beautiful and decides to continue putting flowers in her hair."
Other animals and even children, before the age of about four, are still a part of the "garden of eden". Innocent, blind to the world around them. At the age of five, however, they begin to say things like "I want" "I need".
Overall, the point is Enlightenment is finding your way back to the "garden of eden" and once again being one with everything.
Which brings me to the next Taoist Teaching:
We have all heard "Live in the Moment"
<span class="ev_code_blue">
Do you sometimes find yourself unable to let go of the past or stop worrying about the future? When I feel that way, I recall to mind a great Zen story:
One day, while walking through the wilderness, a man encountered a vicious tiger. He ran for his life, and the tiger gave chase.
The man came to the edge of a cliff, and the tiger was almost upon him. Having no choice, he held on to a vine with both hands and climbed down.
Halfway down the cliff, the man looked up and saw the tiger at the top, baring its fangs. He looked down and saw another tiger at the bottom, waiting for his arrival and roaring at him. He was caught between the two.
Two rats, one white and one black, showed up on the vine above him. As if he didn't have enough to worry about, they started gnawing on the vine.
He knew that as the rats kept gnawing, they would reach a point when the vine would no longer be able to support his weight. It would break and he would fall. He tried to shoo the rats away, but they kept coming back.
At that moment, he noticed a strawberry growing on the face of the cliff, not far away from him. It looked plump and ripe. Holding onto the vine with one hand and reaching out with the other, he plucked it.
With a tiger above, another below, and two rats continuing to gnaw on his vine, the man tasted the strawberry and found it absolutely delicious.
This story is all about living in the moment. Despite his perilous situation, the man chose not to let unrealized dangers paralyze him. He was able to seize the moment and savor it.
</span>
Full Article: <A HREF="http://www.taoism.net/living/2003/200301.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.taoism.net/living/2003/200301.htm</A>
Of course if I was the man I would have found a way to get out of that predicament. However, this story reigns true, that despite a current situation: public speaking, experiencing a panic attack, stuck in an obsession -- there is always something else going on in the present to keep your mind off of these irrational fears.
Two more good articles:
<A HREF="http://www.taoism.net/theway/thinking.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.taoism.net/theway/thinking.htm</A>
<A HREF="http://www.taoism.net/theway/suffer.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.taoism.net/theway/suffer.htm</A>
You're Welcome and if you would like to learn more about reaching that Enlightenment I would encourage you to read
"Acceptance of what is" Wagne Liquorman
"Never Mind" Wagne Liquorman
-----------------------------------------------
Some good references to Anxiety in Taoist Teachings/Articles:
<span class="ev_code_blue">The last lesson that I will speak of is being centered inside oneself. Before I left for Taiwan, I went to Mr. Bunting's house and we shared our thoughts about our upcoming trip. I expressed some anxiety about leaving the state I have known for all of my life but as I look back, I almost laugh at how unfounded my anxiety was. Mr. Bunting told me, “If you find your center, you can go anywhere in this world and always be at home.” I had to repeat that to myself because it made so much sense. At times, whenever I feel tired or sad, all I have to do is put my hands together, bow my head and concentrate on my mystic portal to find the center inside myself. And suddenly, I don't feel so fatigued or unhappy. I feel content and at peace because I know I have the Buddha Nature within me, just like it is in every one of you.</span>
Full Article: <A HREF="http://www.taoism.net/ikuantao/taiwan/fish.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.taoism.net/ikuantao/taiwan/fish.htm</A>
I believe this applys to the "comfort zone" portion of our disorders. A comfort zone differs for different people. The most common form of a comfort zone is a persons home. Many people become agoraphobic and fear leaving their homes. For others a comfort zone can be a person (friend etc), forums such as this, etc...
Taoism teaches that this comfort zone is always with you. The comfort zone is within yourself. If you can learn to center your mind and focus in on the present; you can find this comfort zone. Sometimes closing your eyes, taking a deep breath, and exhaling while saying "let go" or "calm" can help you to center your mind. Once you reach a balanced center of you brain you become an observer of what is happening around you. Next, after seperating yourself, from -- well -- yourself, you can begin to realize what has been creating a lot of your anxiety.
Finally, true enlightenment, is becoming one with everything. A toltec would say this is the realization that you are in fact God and everything around you is God. God is all there is. Just simply be... Some refer to those who are not enlightened as "Sleeping Gods". The Tao Te Ching while refering to the Tao states: "The Tao is all there is, I do not know where it came from. It is older than God." Esssentially I view God as being a manifestation of our minds after seperating from the Tao. The Tao is truly all there is; it exists in all times and all places there is no beginning their is no end; there simply is. This can be difficult to explain and/or grasp but again: "The spoken Tao is not the true Tao."
^probably seems far out to Christians huh?
A deeper look into Taoism and Toltec Teachings:
Our level of consciousness is what makes us feel separate. Adam and Eve ate from the "Tree of Knowledge" and became "like" God knowing and understanding the difference between good and evil and thus leaving the "garden of eden". Or rather, one day a cave man woke up and looked at their hand and said this is my hand; a cave women looks at a pond and sees a flower stuck in her hair: "She says I look beautiful and decides to continue putting flowers in her hair."
Other animals and even children, before the age of about four, are still a part of the "garden of eden". Innocent, blind to the world around them. At the age of five, however, they begin to say things like "I want" "I need".
Overall, the point is Enlightenment is finding your way back to the "garden of eden" and once again being one with everything.
Which brings me to the next Taoist Teaching:
We have all heard "Live in the Moment"
<span class="ev_code_blue">
Do you sometimes find yourself unable to let go of the past or stop worrying about the future? When I feel that way, I recall to mind a great Zen story:
One day, while walking through the wilderness, a man encountered a vicious tiger. He ran for his life, and the tiger gave chase.
The man came to the edge of a cliff, and the tiger was almost upon him. Having no choice, he held on to a vine with both hands and climbed down.
Halfway down the cliff, the man looked up and saw the tiger at the top, baring its fangs. He looked down and saw another tiger at the bottom, waiting for his arrival and roaring at him. He was caught between the two.
Two rats, one white and one black, showed up on the vine above him. As if he didn't have enough to worry about, they started gnawing on the vine.
He knew that as the rats kept gnawing, they would reach a point when the vine would no longer be able to support his weight. It would break and he would fall. He tried to shoo the rats away, but they kept coming back.
At that moment, he noticed a strawberry growing on the face of the cliff, not far away from him. It looked plump and ripe. Holding onto the vine with one hand and reaching out with the other, he plucked it.
With a tiger above, another below, and two rats continuing to gnaw on his vine, the man tasted the strawberry and found it absolutely delicious.
This story is all about living in the moment. Despite his perilous situation, the man chose not to let unrealized dangers paralyze him. He was able to seize the moment and savor it.
</span>
Full Article: <A HREF="http://www.taoism.net/living/2003/200301.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.taoism.net/living/2003/200301.htm</A>
Of course if I was the man I would have found a way to get out of that predicament. However, this story reigns true, that despite a current situation: public speaking, experiencing a panic attack, stuck in an obsession -- there is always something else going on in the present to keep your mind off of these irrational fears.
Two more good articles:
<A HREF="http://www.taoism.net/theway/thinking.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.taoism.net/theway/thinking.htm</A>
<A HREF="http://www.taoism.net/theway/suffer.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.taoism.net/theway/suffer.htm</A>
Last edited by BeatAnxiety07 on Fri May 18, 2007 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
_________________________________________
"When you fear that you cannot, let that fear motivate you to prove that you can!"
"When you fear that you cannot, let that fear motivate you to prove that you can!"
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wholegrain
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:02 am
Beat, I really like what you're saying about the Tao. That's why I like it and the RSOF so much- YOUR beliefs are about YOU. I too think we put ourselves through a lot of misery by listening to other people. When I was younger I really enjoyed getting into debates like the ones here, and sometimes I still slip into them. But the reality is that I really don't think these kinds of things go anywhere. I have a unique spiritual path somewhere inside of me that is going to make me very content, and yelling and screaming about Jesus or anything else is NOT going to help me find it.
But yeah, that ranting was pretty much to agree with you that you can't always take what someone, even a preacher says, to be "truth".
And now that you mention it, I realize that the Tao really is relaxation in and of itself. Letting go, just being. And the comfort zone thing- doesn't Lucinda teach that in the lessons? YOU are your safe place! Haha. It's true. When I confine myself to one place- my house, my bed, my city- that is when I am the most unhappy. I think something terrible will happen if I step on a plane or go to a city far away, but when I AM far away or 20,000 feet up in the air...I am at peace. It's somehow easier to realize that my home is wherever I am.
"The Tao is older than everything". That statement is very thought-provoking to me in a positive way. It's kind of scary to think like that. It feels daring, rebellious. But sometimes I think that is what I need. I need to not be afraid to embrace what inspires me, what uplifts me, what makes me cry and what gives me peace...even if everyone around me is saying it's wrong for me to embrace it.
Thanks for this discussion Beat. It is really nice to talk about something new to me for a change.
But yeah, that ranting was pretty much to agree with you that you can't always take what someone, even a preacher says, to be "truth".
And now that you mention it, I realize that the Tao really is relaxation in and of itself. Letting go, just being. And the comfort zone thing- doesn't Lucinda teach that in the lessons? YOU are your safe place! Haha. It's true. When I confine myself to one place- my house, my bed, my city- that is when I am the most unhappy. I think something terrible will happen if I step on a plane or go to a city far away, but when I AM far away or 20,000 feet up in the air...I am at peace. It's somehow easier to realize that my home is wherever I am.
"The Tao is older than everything". That statement is very thought-provoking to me in a positive way. It's kind of scary to think like that. It feels daring, rebellious. But sometimes I think that is what I need. I need to not be afraid to embrace what inspires me, what uplifts me, what makes me cry and what gives me peace...even if everyone around me is saying it's wrong for me to embrace it.
Thanks for this discussion Beat. It is really nice to talk about something new to me for a change.
Hey Beat,
Good topic. I like reading your discriptions about Eastern thought. It's kind of refreshing to see someone writing about this type of thing in this forum. I thought I might have a couple of things to add.
Good topic. I like reading your discriptions about Eastern thought. It's kind of refreshing to see someone writing about this type of thing in this forum. I thought I might have a couple of things to add.
I read in a book by DT Suzuki that a great Zen master was once quoted as saying "I can not teach you how to reach enlightenment, but I might be able to trick you into it". I think this is the same thing you are talking about here. I read that a long time ago but it was only recently that I've truely come to understand what he ment.Posted by Beat Anxiety 07:
I especially like the phrase "The spoken Tao is not the true Tao."
To me that is a reminder that I should not take anything preachers say as the truth. No one knows all the answers and the things we speak, preach and belief is not the truth. You also can not say the last statement is the truth. The Tao Te Ching says: "The wise say nothing." "They are like an idiot their minds are so empty."
I thought about that the first time I heard Lucinda speak of that. I thought to myself, "truth is truth, it doesn't matter where the source is". I think that many truths were realized independantly of one another in the East and later in the West. To me this has had a validating effect and has helped my with my anxiety.Posted by Wholegrain:
And the comfort zone thing- doesn't Lucinda teach that in the lessons? YOU are your safe place! Haha. It's true.
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YetWillIPraiseHim
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 10:19 pm
BeatAnxietyo7,
I appreciate your contribution in this thread and respect you for your education, intellegence and recpect of others. I'm in hopes too that we will not go to condemning(sp?)/be-littleing eachother in heated debates. We need eachother no matter what our personal beleifs.
Have you read Steven Coveys book "7 Habbits of Highly Effective People" ?
I enjoyed this book tremendously and learned life lessons from it.
Summery #2 you gave from the Toltec book is similar to something I learned from 7 Habits book. The auther calls it "paradyms"(sp?)
Our perseptions of the world around us are based on our own life experiences, never the exact same as someone elses. So, he encourages readers to make paradym shifts in our thinking, placing ourselves as much as possible into the view and circumstances of the other person before drawing quick conclusions.
Ex. He gave an illistration of having been on a train, when a guy with his two small kids got on and joined him for a lengthy ride. The guys kids were terrible. They were screaming and jumping around and being allowed to distrupt everyone, while seemingly the guy didn't care. He just sat staring, his head slumped over paying no mind to his kids.
The people around him, Mr.Covey included, were to say the least, aggrivated. People may have been thinking, "this guy is a terrible parent, those kids need a good spanking, if they were my kids I'd....."
Mr. Covey eventually decided to say to the man, in the politest way he could, "hey, do you think you can get control of you kids?" The man seemed suprised as he snapped out of his staring and was completely
apoligetic. Then he proceeded to explain how he had just come from the hospital with the kids, where he had left his wife. She had just died a few hours earlier.
Ohhhh! You can imagine the paradym shift in the peoples minds. Instead of hostility and judgemnt, maybe compassion and some understanding became the attitude. Mr. Covey said he was certainly sorry and offered to help entertain the guys kids, who were probably also stressed out and expressing it in their own way.
Anyway, I love that story. And not all the time do I remember this concept, but I do work on trying not to hastily form opinions, especially negitive ones. And Realizing that we all see things from coutlessly different angles.
We just dont know what others have had to endure. Empathy.
Ty for reading. Hope everyone will find support and freinds here.
Love to all, Melissa
I appreciate your contribution in this thread and respect you for your education, intellegence and recpect of others. I'm in hopes too that we will not go to condemning(sp?)/be-littleing eachother in heated debates. We need eachother no matter what our personal beleifs.
Have you read Steven Coveys book "7 Habbits of Highly Effective People" ?
I enjoyed this book tremendously and learned life lessons from it.
Summery #2 you gave from the Toltec book is similar to something I learned from 7 Habits book. The auther calls it "paradyms"(sp?)
Our perseptions of the world around us are based on our own life experiences, never the exact same as someone elses. So, he encourages readers to make paradym shifts in our thinking, placing ourselves as much as possible into the view and circumstances of the other person before drawing quick conclusions.
Ex. He gave an illistration of having been on a train, when a guy with his two small kids got on and joined him for a lengthy ride. The guys kids were terrible. They were screaming and jumping around and being allowed to distrupt everyone, while seemingly the guy didn't care. He just sat staring, his head slumped over paying no mind to his kids.
The people around him, Mr.Covey included, were to say the least, aggrivated. People may have been thinking, "this guy is a terrible parent, those kids need a good spanking, if they were my kids I'd....."
Mr. Covey eventually decided to say to the man, in the politest way he could, "hey, do you think you can get control of you kids?" The man seemed suprised as he snapped out of his staring and was completely
apoligetic. Then he proceeded to explain how he had just come from the hospital with the kids, where he had left his wife. She had just died a few hours earlier.
Ohhhh! You can imagine the paradym shift in the peoples minds. Instead of hostility and judgemnt, maybe compassion and some understanding became the attitude. Mr. Covey said he was certainly sorry and offered to help entertain the guys kids, who were probably also stressed out and expressing it in their own way.
Anyway, I love that story. And not all the time do I remember this concept, but I do work on trying not to hastily form opinions, especially negitive ones. And Realizing that we all see things from coutlessly different angles.
We just dont know what others have had to endure. Empathy.
Ty for reading. Hope everyone will find support and freinds here.
Love to all, Melissa
A very good book is Chop Wood Carry Water. I have fallen into every pit along the way that it describes.
A student asked the master, "what comes before enlightenment?
The master replied "chop wood, carry water"
the student asked, "what comes after enlightenment?"
the master replied, "chop wood, carry water"
A student asked the master, "what comes before enlightenment?
The master replied "chop wood, carry water"
the student asked, "what comes after enlightenment?"
the master replied, "chop wood, carry water"
I don't believe I've heard of the book that you mentioned but I do know that this is a Buddhist teaching. Buddhism teaches that the self is formed by the experiences that one has had in a life time. Through meditation you learn to let your mind rest in it's natural state and you essentially take away these expieriences, or take away the self as a practice. During the process of learning to do this you learn about the discursive nature of the mind, and you realize how our experiences form the self. From this you can start to understand other people on a deeper level, you can see yourself in other people. This helps us to stengthen our minds and develop compassion.posted by YetWillIPraiseHim:
Our perseptions of the world around us are based on our own life experiences, never the exact same as someone elses. So, he encourages readers to make paradym shifts in our thinking, placing ourselves as much as possible into the view and circumstances of the other person before drawing quick conclusions
Last edited by GuitarTom on Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BeatAnxiety07
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:19 am
Awesome man, I hope you find the books to be just as enlightening as I did. Post back in here when you finish them.Originally posted by Glass:
Thank you for this information. I am looking into this because I find it helpfull. I have been reading books by Pema Chodron. The Places That Scare You was very good and did help me to not be or hang onto anger.
I will get these books that you told me about. This is good.
Thanks
Glen
_________________________________________
"When you fear that you cannot, let that fear motivate you to prove that you can!"
"When you fear that you cannot, let that fear motivate you to prove that you can!"