The Challenge...Lesson 10

[Karen L]

hi everyone.....

tired and a bit aggravated as everything around seems to go wrong at once......just been trying to fix up my basement the last couple weeks so I have a better place to work out...anyways, just seems to be one thing after another breaking here....from the plumbing and electrical to the dog peeing on the carpet I just cleaned.......well, time to take a deep breath and just relax....also I have to remind myself that everything does not have to be perfect.....


Mike

Thanks so much for the list of questions.....I already printed them out........you really hit every issue with them and I am quickly reminded how much of a hinderence to my well-being and happiness he really is.....

a few of the big obsessive thoughts I have about him are him cheating on me, which makes me angry and then gets the who anxiety and depression going.....another thought is obsessively begin to think I will never find someone that I really love...that I really want to be with...this also gets the aniety and depression going........also, I think about him yelling at me and calling me names.....this also brings anger, worthlessness, anxiety, and depression.....the list of my obseesive thoughts regarding him is endless....Ive been pretty good at just jumping out of the thoughts the last couple days.....but I still need to work on not giving these thoughts any value...

exzcellent advice Mike on staying motivated...tomorrow I need to find those questions that you posted (Im just too tired now lol)...are they at the beginning of this forum or are they located somewhere lese??

I still often get stuck in doing things the "right" way.....thats part of what has been stressing me out over fixing up the basement.....I need to just step back and let things remain "unperfect"

yes, I loved your perv remark to THH.....you always make me laugh.....between you and her I sometimes just sit here and laugh so hard


THH

Im glad to hear your cousin is comfortable....you sound good and in control.....I can only imagine how challenging the last few days have been for you...but you are handling them so well!! you are positive and realizing you that you can not control every situation.....and that is great that you also realize you cant and shouldnt have to fix everyone's problems.......wow, Im so proud of you, you sound like a new person!!

[THH]

Mike,
Oh yes I too think that my obsessive thoughts are due to my being afraid. It is for my cousin, but it questions my own mortality. So yes that is a very good possibility.
My worry will steal my focus. I do get what your instructor was telling you because it is ok. It is part of life. I was also so surprised at hospice. They are wonderful! They hand you pamphlets that help teach you how to deal and they help you so much. It is such a comfort! My cousin is thrilled ( she don't even know she is in hospice) but they have hot tubs, and gave her nice pjs, she felt so much better just being clean and in new clothes. They will make sure she does not suffer. Very compassionate place. I feel so much better. It was so much better than what I imagined.
Your post helped encourage me to go see her. I was fearing what I may see. I could not get my mind right. Just like you said, she talked about weird stuff but I just could go with it. She was very funny and she even was eating. ( they have stuff there you can order and it was tasty too) She is like down to 90 pounds, but nothing wrong with her appetite that day. I guess they even said if she eats and gets strong she could go home and have them come to the house. So many options it was not what I had in my mind. ( more mis beliefs!) I feel it will be OK what ever happens.

Yes I will refer to "Mike" moments! LOL...
Questions:
What am I so fearful of?
Why am I obsessing about my health?
Why am I giving away my self control and feeling so helpless?
Breathing and relaxing too.

Karen,
Thank you, and at times I do feel strong. Others I wobble around and some how I make a miraculous recovery! LOL... Its not pretty but I have been able to keep a forward motion!( for the most part)
Simple challenges are strong, sensitive topics are tougher, and multiples are not easy!
Sounds like you had some of those as well. You did good, stuff does break, dogs always make a mess doing something, so your breathing helped you to relax and time to realize things are not going to be perfect! Good catch!

[NinjaFrodo]

Karen L

Sounds like you had alot of really potential problems. How would your feelings change if you started to look at them as if they were challenge opportunities or opportunities that will move you one step closer to becoming who you want to be and one step closer to overcoming the anxiety and depression?
How would you feel if you really focused on how you got these things done?
How would you feel if you feel if you thought about how you handled a problem and took care of yourself?
How would you feel if you gave yourself credit for what you've done? Do you think you would feel more confident and your self-esteem increase or would you feel less confident and your self-esteem decrease?
Could it add to your motivation or take away from it?
What do you think happens when you do the opposite? Does it make you feel better or worse?
Is there anything positive you could focus on with these situations?
Would focusing on the good things make you feel better about the task and better overall or would it make them more stressful?


Thats good that those questions hit every issue. A big chunk of those questions were actually formed from my new value list. If you can see how it takes away the opportunity from feeling all the emotions you strive for and gives you all the emotions you don't want, you are alot more likely to want to change it not only on a conscious level but on a subconscious level as well.

Ok so your obsessive thoughts;
1)Him cheating on you
2)I will never find someone that I really love and that I really want to be with
3)You think about him yelling at you and calling you names

I just did lesson 10 in the workbook the other day and it suggests to figure out if these are rational or irrational before you change them. If they are irrational then they are a cover up for something else. One way to really figure this out is to look back at the cognitive distortions layed out in lesson 3 and see if these thoughts fit into any of those categories. I'm going to ask some questions.

1)He is not in your life anymore and you are not in a relationship with him so the possibility of him cheating on you well its not there. So do you think this might be a coverup for something else?

2)So you are telling yourself you'll never find someone you love and that you want to be with. Are you convinced that you do not have the ability to meet people and can never get that ability? Is it not something you can work on? Can you say without a shadow of a doubt this thought is true?
Are you convinced that you do not have the ability to feel love at all? Are there no possible ways to experience deeper feelings of love?

3)I'll give you the last one. He right now is not yelling at you and calling you names. He isn't even in your life. Could you an underlying issue? Lets say he was yelling at you and calling you names, why would that bother you?


Didn't you say you already printed out those questions? I was refering to the questions I posted on the 1st of this year so only like a page or 2 before this one.

we can work on the "right" way a bit later. We already have the 3 we can work on.

I'm glad you like our humor. I like your humor as well. Hey tell me, what did you think of the pookaroo humorus replacement I made in my last post to you.


Mike

[NinjaFrodo]

THH
Isn't it just amazing how things can be totally diffrent to how we would believe them to be? I think perhaps a big part of this is the media and tv shows and how they portray this kind of thing. You've learned that its quite the opposite eh?

Its really good you did go, i'm sure that made her really happy to see you.

Did I say she might talk about wierd stuff but go with it? I don't remember saying that but it makes sense. Contradicting someone in any conversation promotes hurt and even anger. That is a really great opportunity to learn that you can still have a fun time and enjoy yourself and the other person enjoy themselves without it being "right". Know what I mean?

Does she have a brain tumor? Or something like that? What kinds of things was she talking about?


Awesome well I hope your "Mike" moments help you well. We use questions to evaluate things and it is those questions that can help us feel bad or feel good. What-if's are questions and so are asking questions like what am I so fearful of. Try asking yourself questions that make you doubt the thought and see how that turns out. ie is this thought without a shadow of a doubt completely true? (choose your questions to match the situation. If it is a very realistic thought or feeling and its rational to feel it then this question probabbly wouldn't help make you feel better.

Maybe you could ask, "Can I survive this situation?"
"What will my life be like after this?"
"What will change and can I handle it?"


Mike

[NinjaFrodo]

Ok so I'm sick with a stupid cold. I think it has to do alot with what I tell myself when i do activities as well as thinking about getting a job. When I do alot of my activities, I think how stressful it is, what I have to do and doubtful thoughts. It drains me and leaves me feeling drained and I don't feel more confident at all. Within the last week I did that yoga class and I kept saying to myself "All I need is within me now". This is a statement I use everyday when I do my hour of power in the morning (or at least when i'm not sick). I repeat this to myself over and over and over again when i'm walking and after I've thought about everything I'm greatful for and all the goals I want to accomplish and see them as if i've already accomplished them. When I say that statement I say it, then i think of one of my goals or several of them. It builds motivation, self-esteem and I feel like I could actually do it! Maybe not right in the moment, I may need some extra practice with relaxation or something but I know I will be able to do it. So I did this in yoga and I felt really great and was able to push myself alot harder. There were still times I had to stop because it got too much but I still did alot and I felt really good about myself, even when I had to take a couple moments to stop what I was doing.

I've started to write an affirmation script to handle doubtful and disempowering thoughts and it helps a bit but not if i'm really tired. I can see how my mind wants to make me stop what i'm doing and will do it with the thoughts of "I can't" or "I'm too tired". I think its ok to have those thoughts, something has to stop you if you try to push yourself when you absolutely don't have it in you to do something in that moment. If you are extremely sick, it will be more beneficial to not push yourself to do those tasks but its not good when that comes up and you do have the ability. So my goal will not be to eliminate those thoughts but only eliminate them when its not realistic. I'm not sure how i'm going to do that yet but i'll figure it out.

So this actually brings me to the topic of this post. I want to talk about goals/expectations.

Goals/Expecations

I recently had a PM with someone about why people may feel bad after making such a big accomplishment and I thought about it and realized something. Being anxious and depressed we want to be over this condition, yestaurday and we evaluate based on how we feel. Big Mistake!!! It is our thoughts that are in question here and our feelings are created by our thoughts so we are left with irrational feelings. Feelings that don't fit situations. Does that make sense?

So what tends to happen is we may have a goal to face a limitation like socializing. We might consciously say that is our goal but subconsciously that is only our medium. The goal we really have is to be over the anxiety and depression and we evaluate this based on how we feel. You following me? So if we feel bad then we are still feeling the anxiety and depression and this might make the situation look like a failure. So what do you think might happen if you go into the situation already feeling really horrible and you face your limitation? How can the situation itself bring you out of that negative feeling if your goal is to feel positive? How can you turn to feeling positive if you keep telling yourself "I can't do it" or some other disempowering thought? Your more likely to fail then you are to succeed and what does it cost you? It costs you self-esteem, hope and can reinforce your self-defeating thoughts. This however is not always the case. There are times when the person does it and at the end they may get a reward that they really really desired that might help them. Ie if the person works up the courage to ask someone out and they accept and then get into a relationship or something like that. Make sense?

So I'm proposing that instead of making the feeling the goal (feelings are only really messages neways), bring your expectations to something a bit lower or you will be setting yourself up for failure and up for feeling really aweful! So instead of saying my goal is to feel good when I replace thoughts or my goal is to feel good when using the relaxation cd, using the skills in the program, facing limitations. Make your goal to actually attempt. Don't you think that is alot easier to fulfill?
How do you think you would feel if you actually did fulfill that expectation?
Would you feel better about yourself and more motivated? You better believe you would. Would it lead to more action or less?
Do you think it will help you achieve your goal of overcoming the anxiety and depression more or less?
Or do you think the previous way would help you more?
Which do you think would be more enjoyable, the first way or the 2nd?
The way it works is that if your goal is the task and you achieve it, your reward is the positive message aka feeling. This means don't try to make yourself feel better with relaxation...try to do it and then you'll feel better. Don't try to make yourself feel better when you replace thoughts...try to put the lie to the thought and that will make you feel better. Don't try to face limitations in order to feel good (at least not in that moment) because you're likely to feel really anxious and experience more of those annoying body symptoms. Make it just trying to face your limitations and then you'll be heavily rewarded. Does that make sense?

Think back to a time when you really really enjoyed yourself while doing a particular activity (maybe your favorate hobby). Think about a time when you really felt those deep positive feelings now ask yourself...what was it that I was telling myself?
Was I saying I can't do it, or was I encouraging myself?
WAs I looking at the things I have to do or was I looking at the benefits?
What would happen if I started to believe that I coudln't do it?
Would it steal me away from the excitement or create more?
Would I be as effective or less effective? Would I be more inclined to do the task again in the future or less inclined?
Would it make me feel more hopeful or less hopeful?

Now lets take something you particularly don't like and add the same elements that made you enjoy your favorate hobby.
If you told yourself the same things while doing the unfavorable chore then;
Would you potentially create more positive feelings or less?
Would it be easier to handle or less?
Would it be more draining or less draining?
Could you potentially do a better job and thus get a better outcome or a worse job and worse outcome?
What would it do to your life if you actually thought the same feelings you do with your favorate hobby, with your chores?
How would it affect your overall mood?
How would it affect your relationships?
How would it affect your energy level?
How would it affect you financially? Would you have a higher opportunity for more clients or promotion?
How would it affect your possibility of being hired at a job?
How would it affect your appearance?
How would it affect your stress level?


Ok so now I have an activity I'd like you to do. Well only the people who want to overcome the anxiety and depression and not have it control their every waking moment.

Pick 2 activities you like and 2 activities you don't like (but make them simple activities)
Now do the fun activities with those positive and encouraging thoughts and see how you feel. Try doing them with negative defeating thoughts. Now do the same with the ones you don't like and post your experiences here on the forums. Post if you felt more positive or less but be aware of the black or white thinking. Use percentages. Did you end up feeling 20% more positive or 20% more negative. I'm really intrested to see how people respond. Don't worry about believing the thoughts at a gut level. Just say them to yourself as if you were reading them.



Mike

[NinjaFrodo]

Lesson 11 starts tomorrow (Thursday) I'll post the link tomorrow.

[Paisleegreen]

THH--Thanks on your comment to my comment in the Spirituality Section. If it is the one I'm thinking about, I had to think on it.

Hey, I'm looking forward to your link tomorrow, Mike.
And to catching up on all the postings here.

Just to tell everyone...I saw my therapist w/DH yesterday. Interesting visit...the Dr had me leave so that he could talk to DH alone. DH was really venting...then the he came out of the office and told me it was my turn.

The Dr told me that DH loved me and I'm not quite sure what all else was talked about yet. But the Dr wants us to work on the bathroom remodel...as this is the best way to work out our differences or problems. Yikes!

He told me that we could pick an easier thing to work on, but feels that this will get to the heart of the matter sooner. Oh, boy... I think the DR is ready for the long haul...he pointed out that soon my youngest won't be at home anymore and we'll be all by ourselves together. So we need to make it work or figure something out. He also answered a question I asked at the beginning of the therapy session, that he doesn't think my hormones have anything to do with my anxiety.

I really wanted to know, because right now I just don't feel that well...I told him I had been on anti-depressants for a long time and just wondered if I'm feeling such anxiety because I'm not on them like I had been or is it the "change" causing it.

He is telling me, it is my anxiety. So I walked out of there bewildered...not looking forward to working out this bathroom remodel w/DH. It just brings up so many feelings...and today I just thought about how I was feeling and I just wanted to cry.

So I did...now I don't know why I'm crying...am I grieving over the loss of my son again, or that I was written out of my Dad's Will...or the way my husband made me feel when we were in the Dr's office. Am I feeling that way because of what DH said or what are my feelings?

Does this make any sense? I couldn't concentrate on anything after we got home yesterday. DH asked me what the DR told me when I went back into his office alone. I basically told him...we just wound the session up.

I had all this energy and no where to go with it. I would have loved to have a sunny day to go out and pull some weeds, catch some pond fish, prune some plants or go for a walk.

But amazingly, I felt better after my visit w/the Dr, when I was sent out to the waiting room, I didn't know whether to cry or not. Weird feelings...but yet I felt better. I guess because more of my feelings had been expressed in a safe place.

Basically, the Dr said that DH shouldn't be talking to me the way he did and he knew that I was just beginning to start asserting myself w/DH. So he understands the squabbling we were doing in his office.

I really was missing my parents today and my late son. Although, I'm happy for them to be where they are and away from this old world and their infirm bodies.

Thanks for listening....Paislee

[Karen L]

Hi everyone
long day in Cleveland as the snow kicked my butt lol......spent about 5-6 hrs shoveling snow, and yes, I was the one that never wanted the snowblower lol.....anyways Im exhausted, but a good, physically drained tired.....guess I am still a bit obsessive compulsive.....but not near as bad as before lol
did some driving yesterday to a few places I havent been in months, so things have been good for me........my counselor is out of town for this week and I was abit nervous that she wouldnt be a phone call away, but I am handling everything great and very proud of myself

I was reading over all the other comments but Im just to tired to think and respond....will do that tomorrow
hope everyone has a good night

[Paisleegreen]

Good to hear from you, Karen L! Wow, I'm impressed with the work out you got shoveling snow! Yahoo! We'll still be here when you visit today! Paislee

[Paisleegreen]

Mike-- I read your questions on changing our thinking when attacking a distasteful job vs a hobby. I will have to think on that. Good Ideas! P.