The Challenge...Lesson 4

NinjaFrodo · Post by **NinjaFrodo** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:09 pm

In response to THH;

I really like and appreciate the imagry as I need more practice with visualizing and I don't know there is something about it that just affects the subconsious mind. Kind of like what we see in dreams and how they can have certain meanings about our life (yes I've also gotten into dream analysis as well

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Thats good because I stink with anger. Heck that July 1st incident with that party and the guy who was being really inconsiderate by inviting my friends, friends he met through em and not inviting me and then responding to me voicing my feelings by saying I don't have to always be there and don't be so dramatic...I got phyiscaly sick for awhile with a cold. I get so angry and I obsess and get colds and flus. I've had a hard time with getting really obsessive with anger thoughts, it was all I would talk about and it drove many friends away. Its not as bad now that I know about obsessive thinking but still a huge challenge and I think you will definately be very helpful for that lesson. Self-talk took me awhile to get and I'll give you examples from the first time I went through the program in a later post. Expectations were very hard for me as well, but I think i'm getting ti better this time.

Everyone tells you which is a long several weeks to get over?

I'd like to think I get enough fruit as I have 1-2 smoothes a day. I add lettuce sometimes and I try to make a salad or have a pita bread with lettuce, tomato and some kinda meat in there as well. I could do with some more veggies and maybe some bran.

Yeah maybe self first and post 2nd. Some of that healthy selfishness Ken talks about.

She didn't seem that busy and probabbly doesn't like the job but who knows but it doesn't matter too much because I still felt happy about sharing the positive feelings even if I didn't get a positive response.

Lol well I think i'm pretty unique that way. Heck I do alot of things for people that others wouldn't bother with.

Mike

NinjaFrodo · Post by **NinjaFrodo** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:22 pm

In response to Searunner;

sometimes quotes and messages are better when they are simplified like that. Its very direct and I'm glad you felt motivated to put that the way you did.

That situation sounds kind of like the one in the tapes with the husband that wants his wife to go to school and get her degree and she has no desire to do so herself. I would not be suprised if obsessive thoughts would come up right after you thought of taking the tests or after someone suggested you do so. So cross it off your list, be assertive with your boss. Tell him how you feel about it. You seem to have a good grasp with the assertiveness, I've seen it in action. You do have the skill and are very considerate while doing it.

What is it that even creates the need to want to always please people? Is that where your self-esteem comes from? Do you really want to give up that power to someone else? Also if you were perfect then were is the joy in always improving and growing? How much are you willing to give up in order for this false idea of perfection? I ended up quitting my career, getting fired from my last job and ended up on disability. Perfectionism is a very expensive way of life. Its promises are high and impossible to meet and it consumes all the good you already have. People can still function if you let them down but really what does it mean to let someone down?

Don't should about treating yourself better...just do it and focus on the benefits of it!

Mike

NinjaFrodo · Post by **NinjaFrodo** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:24 pm

I am more recovered everyday. No matter how negative I feel or what symptoms come up, I am still ok. I accept the reality of each moment and do not fight it. I have goals and I achieve them. When I feel frustrated I know it is a sign that I'm on the verge of making a breakthrough and taking a big leap on a goal.

I was thinking this is lesson is a struggle for alot of us, I'd like to suggest that we stay on it for 1 more day. I'll let you guys decide via voting a yes or no.

Mike

mcshope · Post by **mcshope** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:04 am

Yes....

Karen L · Post by **Karen L** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:45 am

I am on the road to recovery and I will recover. I will use the skills I have learned daily because I refuse to let anxiety, fear, anger, and depression control my life. I am a strong person and I can do this.

am dealing with some bed decision making on my part....I was feeling down last night and called my ex...I just wanted to hear his voice....I ended up talking to him....we then met up at the park and talked for a couple hours....although nothing happened I feel terrible.....I have repeated this behavior a few times over the last 9 months and always end up hurt, anxious, and depressed.....I am trying not to fall into this but am struggling....nothing has changed, he still does not thing he has a drinking problem....he even still blames me for some of his mistakes....he will never change and I dont know why I even think that he will.....my counselor isnt even sure that I ever loved him.....she thinks I stayed because of the drama and that it fed into my anxiety....thus giving me an excuse to stay in my own little isolated world of anxiety...I do believe that, but I really do miss him and I just cant stop this.....
anyways, I know that it cant be, as he is still the same person....he now wants to get married, which was an issue he always held over my head before....I know that it will be the same mess and I will only be enabling his behavior....I also know that I may not even be able to be with him in a physical way because he was with someone else since we have been apart (even though he continues to deny it)....
anyways I just feel like I am in a big mess

Karen L · Post by **Karen L** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:47 am

Mike

it would be great if we could stay on it longer...even more than a day would be great

Karen L · Post by **Karen L** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:27 am

I am on the road to recovery and I will recover. I will use the skills I have learned daily because I refuse to let anxiety, fear, anger, and depression control my life. I am a strong person and I can do this!

why did I even have any expectations of my ex??
my expectaions of us getting together and it being great led to my whole decision of just seeing him....yes, I was very lonely also...but I knew it would be the same......part of me also just wanted to see him just to know he still cared and still wasnt over me.....I get so upset at myself for my unrealistic feelings...anyways, I just posted this because I just realized that it was my expectations that mostly led to me putting myself in the situation...I guess I need to work on this lesson alot more....

THH

I love your imagery....I am actually getting pretty good at letting myself go and going mentally somewhere else.....but the boat in the rapids and needing to give up all control is just awesome!! I am definitely going to use that one!!

Mike

alot of times when when Im doing this I think of or fear the anxiety....I really need to struggle to do the postive talk.....somtimes I need to just repeat "thoughts only thoughts"....I have noticed that trying to pay attention to present details helps....also, if I can really get into the positive talk I find that it comes alot easier, like if I say it and believe it, then the positive thoughts keep coming easily, which increases my self-confidence...but it all can disappear quickly if I even feed just a little bit into a negative thought..

I also am going to need help with the anger lesson as it is difficult for me....I think back, and I was even an angry, very easily irritated child, with little or no patience...

It's good to hear you did a little better with relaxing with the relaxation cd

with the receptionist at the gym, remember that you dont know what she was dealing with in her own mind...glad you were able to see that her reaction didnt matter to you big step

omg...that is awesome with your friend's reaction....before you said that you thought he would be upset because he is a perfectionist...I guess your expectations of him were wrong and he really appreciated your help

THH

omg.....that is another awesome thought of imagery with the rock... I can just imagine how freeing it is to drop that heavy weight that is dragging you down, exhausting you....I have to remember that one also

Jamie

glad to see you are feeling a bit better

that depression can just suck everything out of you..

It seems you have no desire to get your license, so cross that off your list.....it is not one of your goals, but instead everyone else's expectaion....who knows, maybe one day you will want to get it, and then, it could be one of your goals.....but why cause yourself all the inner turmoil now??

NinjaFrodo · Post by **NinjaFrodo** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:32 am

In response to Karen L;

Its not helpful to beat yourself up for feeling lonely and doing something about it. The choice you made however isn't in your best interest because it will only keep your agoraphobia and other fears alive longer. Your suffering thus would be prolonged.

I can't say I know exactly what it is that is making you feel this way. Perhaps you don't feel good enough for someone more caring, perhaps its because you are used to that kind of relationship, perhaps you are telling yourself you need that kind of companionship or perhaps you are empathizing with his suffering because of your own and you might feel responsible even partially for his bad life. Its hard to say but I can say one thing though. For whatever reason, You are telling yourself there is pleasure in that relationship that is worth going after. Any living creature only do things that they think they can get some benefit out of even if it is little and sometimes they disregard the pain. They may even do this even if the result would be likely to be more painful than pleasureable. This is what alcoholics do, its what smokers do, its what anybody with any bad habit does. So what is the benefit you could get out of it and how can you take action to get that from yourself or get that from some other source?

Best way to figure that out is to sit down and figure out what it is you miss about him and once you figure that out, try to recognize that he wouldn't be the only person capable of giving you those same positive things.

Mike

Karen L · Post by **Karen L** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:25 am

I am on the road to recovery and will recover. I will use my skills daily because I refuse to let anxiety, fear, anger, and depression control my life. I am a strong person and I can do this.

Mike

I know beating myself is not good....I just dont understand how I let myself fall into this trap yet again..it will not change, I dont know why I cant see this and move on...I also know this is prolonging my recovery......but I dont understand again why I cant let it go....Im beginning to seriously thing he is an obsession to me and I dont know what to do...

I think you are right on several of your reasons for me feeling this way....I probably do feel some responsibility and I definitely do not feel that I deserve better.....I also dont want anyone else....I dont even want to date let alone talk to anyone else....I just dont know what to do to get out of this mind-frame...

I ended the relationship last December.....I have seen him probably on 3 or 4 different occasions like last night since Decemebr.....each time I am hurt because he "does not have a problem" and wont change....this is the first time I contacted him since June or early July.....what do I need to do to get out of this???

NinjaFrodo · Post by **NinjaFrodo** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:48 am

Well think back to one of our first messages. Anger towards him was also an obsession and do you remember what I had said about that? It comes up but it usually isn't the exact reason why you are bothered. I don't think the hey is in the situation of the ex itself but more in the question...what comes before those thoughts. What triggers those thoughts?

One thing that definately doesn't help is that even though he isn't likely to change it isn't impossible and by saying he will never change you imagine his life one continuous struggle. You're feeling hopeless for him and well just feeling that regardless of if it is towards yourself or another person still creates the same chemical response in your body. Mix that with our sensitivity to pain and what you create is guilt. Guilt can make us do many things like put the needs of others before our own. He may change and he may not but for your own sanity it might be more beneficial that you believe it is possible because if you don't then you could just keep creating a negative cycle. Yes you are enabling him and sometimes the best way to help someone is to make them take their own responsibility for their problems but not giving them the attention or secondary gain they are looking for by keeping stuck in the condition. Does this make sense?

Sometimes thinking negative is important and helpful (which is why i prefer thinking the thought replacement as replacing irrational thoughts with rational ones then to replace negative ones with positive ones). We go into that negative zone when we imagine what pain someone else is going through. We allow ourselves to feel that negative chemistry and thats fine when its productive and that is also fine as long as we don't dwell on it. It's a helpful tool we use to relate to and help others but used the wrong way and it can be more destructive than anything. In your circumstance it isn't productive, it doesn't help him or yourself so treat those thoughts of "he must feel this way" or thoughts of some kind of suffering you've had that is similar to his the same as the negative thoughts. Put the stop sign up as soon as you feel this way and use that rational self-talk. [By the way I am actually realizing this stuff as I'm saying it as well. I haven't actually thought about this kind of stuff before and it is a great lesson for me as well] This isn't completely heartless but it is somewhat heartless. Sometimes you need that.

There is a balance between the negative and the positive. Without the negative you wouldn't be able to protect yourself, learn/grow and people who put out those types of behaviors like your X would take and take until you have nothing left to give and no life to live.

Mike