Lucinda is dead wrong on this...

Don57 · Post by **Don57** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:42 am

I thought if only I could not be a sexual person, the panic would go away. I thought God was punishing me with panic attacks for how I would steal glances down their shirts when they leaned forward. I thought he was punishing me for, how to put this delicately, taking matters into my own hands.

I see this as very common thinking among those of us who have problems. Our minds and emotions are at odds with one another with what we have learned or observed in our parents behavior growing up. I passed this on to my child as well, I think.

This is my thinking and I don't know if it is normal or not, but it's different from how I used to beat myself up for what I consider natural, normal human emotions and desires. Your are wanting to be a non-sexual being, yet you were born with genitals and the hormones that become active at puberty to cause sexual desires and emotions. Taking matters into your own hands [lol], as you put it, is simply a normal desire and emotion resulting from those hormones. There's nothing wrong with you for having such thoughts and desires. You're normal. That is simply a normal part of maturing. I would suggest your Mother didn't handle the sex part very well. It's not something to be ashamed of, or try to deny that it's a part of life, but that sounds like how she tried to view and handle. I am guilty of the same behavior around my son. My behavior came from what is taught in the church. Some are better in knowing how to view it from scripture than others. I think to just not make it a big deal is the best way to handle it and understand that a kid at puberty and beyond is at times going to "take matters into his own hands." lol It's okay to be who we are, not what we are not [perfect and pure] but understand there is also a need for restraint or discipline. Balance.

I will say that I think that the better a child's need for intimacy and love are met, the less the child will feel a need to take matters into their own hands whether it is sexual, drugs, rebellion, or whatever.

NinjaFrodo · Post by **NinjaFrodo** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:47 pm

Doogiet

First of all thank you for opening up and trusting us with who you are. That is a wonderful step.

It must have been really difficult to have really paranoid parents. They see all of these health related problems and the rationality of how uncommon they may be sounds like it had vanished on them. Sounds like it would be hard to do anything and like they tried to protect you from life. It also sounds like they must be suffering alot themselves...if they're paranoid about you getting hurt, chances are they're paranoid about themselves as well.

Do you think your father really knew how to handle your mother getting upset?

I'm really sorry about your sister too especially how she told you to leave because of those people who would be doing drugs at her house warming party. I understand why you may have that connection between beautiful women and 2 facedness. You've seen this in your sister but can you see why she became this way?

I thought he was punishing me for, how to put this delicately, taking matters into my own hands.

I'm sorry but i really had to laugh at how you worded that. I can somewhat relate to how you felt uncomfortable about the sexual stuff. I had something similar as well.

So it really does sound like you had alot of struggles in life influenced alot by your parents insecurities and well what I'd like to call karma and money didn't really solve these things either. I'm sorry that you suffered like that but these things can be overcome. Maybe a little at a time but it's definately possible.

I wish I could give you something more helpful today but i just can't find the right words or the passion right now.

Mike

doogiet · Post by **doogiet** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:30 pm

Hey, everyone. Thanks for reading.

I'm glad I've made a few people laugh. As one of my friends says, there's nothing so sacred to me that I won't try to skewer it utterly.

In the past few weeks, I've realized that if you don't open yourself up to people completely, you might as well go home. When I first saw a psychiatrist at 19 or so, I didn't let on the extent of my suffering because I was embarrassed. A few weeks ago I decided to pitch an article to a national magazine where I defended videogames as a means of self-medicating. Of course, to do this I had to admit I had a problem. The funny thing is that the responses I've gotten just reinforce my new belief: people who have a problem with anxiety or depression aren't worth being friends with.

If MC Grace is reading this, I'm glad (s)he found something I had to say inspirational. I previously thought I was put on Earth to show people how not to live their lives.

I agree with what Don says about my family is/was broken. At the time I just didn't see it, I thought everyone's family was like that. I wonder if all families are dysfunctional. The quote about me not knowing who I was/am because I was too busy playing a role hit me like a ton of bricks. I was too busy playing "the good child" to ever do anything "bad." I mean, I didn't have my first drink until I was in my twenties, I didn't get drunk until I was at least 24. I've been drunk exactly four times in my whole life.

Part of what's gotten me thinking along new lines has been my therapy. I mean, if my parents (particularly my mother) were so uncomfortable with sex, what were _their_ parents like? And theirs? It becomes this infinite regression, like when you put two mirrors together. The problem with that is that it absolves everyone of responsibility.

My main issue right now is my girlfriend. Since I've started reading these postings, it's "Donned" on me that I've just transferred my dependency from my parents to my girlfriend. I've noticed that I can be talking to pretty much anyone else, but when she phones or comes over, I automatically slip into this "depressed" role, and when she leaves I feel okay. I don't know if this is me being passive-aggressive, but I want it to stop.

The other thing is that she's 38 and I'm 33. I feel that I've missed out on so much of life because of panicking. She still lives in her parents' basement (and she seems perfectly happy there). My problem is my opinion on this waffles like a pancake. Some days I think, "Well, if she doesn't have a problem with it, who am I to?" Other days I think, "For Pete's sake, woman, get out and live on your own." It's like I have no opinion and just snap to the opinion of whoever is around.

Right now we're sort of taking time off, and I'm torn between wanting to see what it would be like to be single and unpanicky, something I've never ever been. The flipside to this is that my brain keeps barking at me that "I'll never find someone else like her, etc." I know that the last part is probably negative thinking, but it's hard to shake after thinking this way for so long.

I think I just have to bite the bullet and accept that I can't in the way I want as a person if I keep leaning on her.

How did you all come to find Lucinda?

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:36 am

Doogeit. I am catching up on reading all the posts. I know how you feel about your family structure. I believe you were thrown into the title of peace keeper in your family. You were told not to upset your mother (which reading your posts sounds like untreated depression and anxiety), drive your sister's boyfriend home, do what your sister told you to do, etc. Your family (just like mine) is very dependent upon you to keep that title. That is the mold you fit for them and, like me, it feels pretty comfortable. My mother was very over protective of all of us, she wanted us around all the time, know where we were at, what we were doing. I joined the swim team in school and she was unable to watch because "what if you hit your head at the bottom of the pool when you dive in", but I now see she also suffered from anxiety and depression. She would go into her room when any little thing set her off and lay in bed all day. My dad worked all the time, too. He was at work all day and then had to attend board meetings in the evening. I don't know what your parents' relationship was like (my parents divorced when I was 25 - my very first panic attack, both went into counseling and remarried two years later). While my parents were separated and eventually divorced, my dad paid for my apartment. I had no sense of being responsibile for myself. I was too busy keeping the peace. My parents would fight, come to me with their stories and have me try to resolve the argument for them. I would take my two sisters out of the house so they would not hear it. At the age of 27 (my parents remarried and a couple years of counseling) I decided to stop being the peace keeper and "rocked the boat". It was very uncomfortable for all of us. I was very dependent emotionally and financially on my parents. I worked full-time, but my money was spent on the "stuff" I wanted. I didn't need it for rent, etc. I found another apartment, paid my own rent, made friends with the neighbors and eventually met my husband. I forced myself to become independent from my parents. My panic attacks were at their worst in my mid 20s when I was trying to fit the mold they wanted me to be. I did not know how to deal with the panic and just functioned with it in my life for 20 years. After I became independent, I became friends with my parents. I have a wonderful relationship with them now. I got into counseling a year ago, got this program on the advice of my counselor and my life truly has changed. I have not had any anxiety or panic since July 4th.

I know you do not believe in God, but I have to tell you that I will be praying for you. You sound like a nice person who is taking a good luck at your issues. That is hard to do and I am glad that you are able to share and let people here at StressCenter.com share with you, too. Sorry about the rambling.

Good Luck to You.

LisaLisa

NinjaFrodo · Post by **NinjaFrodo** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:53 am

doogiet

Wow I was a huge videogame junkie too...I spent 8-14 hours a day playing videogames back when I was in highschool and couldn't really do much about my anxiety and depression and my living situation.

I'm really not suprised that you get into the depressive state with your girlfriend. You've grown up for so long with that negative cycle of being depressed around the ones who are closest to you so no wonder the same thing would happen when you let another person get close. That is only normal, my mind/ego is just trying to protect you that's all and in the past that's what you needed in order to survive.

You also mentioned about your gf still being in your parent's basement and not really being independant. I can fully understand you being affected by this because you've already been in the situation and you know how it feels. As human beings it seems to be normal to project ourselves onto other people in a way to understand them and to understand ourselves as well. Is this someone you can see yourself with in 5 years? 10 years?

As for your question about how we've found Lucinda well here's my story which took place in 2004. My mother had passed away exactly 1 year prior, I had just moved into a friend's apt (where i had to sleep in the living room) and I was so extremely anxious and hopeless that I was struggling to eat. Everytime I ate I would feel nautious and I was smoking like crazy...1 and a half pack of smokes everyday. I was also working at a very stressful coffee shop (tim hortons) and life itself was overwhelming and thoughts of suicide were a daily thing. I decided that since it was the aniversary of my mother's death, I needed to be alone. I had the day off and I rented a hotel room all to myself to just relax and reflect and just be and So I was in the room and was watching tv and I saw Lucinda's infomercial and I was a little skeptical but there was some part of the infomercial that just clicked for me. I could honestly tell and feel that they weren't lying. The symptoms they were describing weren't so much common knowledge about anxiety and were so much more in depth and thats when i decided that it was what i needed to do. It costed me alot of money because I'm in Canada and of course the currency exchange rate but I'm so glad I did it. Shortly after I started the program, the nausea went away, I was able to control my anger more, I ended up quitting smoking and the coffee shop and applied and went to collage for something that I myself really wanted to do. That's the jist of it neways.

Mike

Don57 · Post by **Don57** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:22 am

My main issue right now is my girlfriend. Since I've started reading these postings, it's "Donned" on me that I've just transferred my dependency from my parents to my girlfriend.

Bingo. Glad that hit home. I didn't figure out I had done that with a gf in college until I was in mid to late 40s. Did it with other things too, like religion and going into the military. I think my son is in the same mode with a gf at present, but it's up to him to make a decision as to break or not. He grew up as the sweetest kid on this earth, to me, just wanting to please. I'll just have to wait to see how it all turns out. But, in college, I just wanted to date, didn't want a steady relationship. My gf of 2.5 years had just broken up with me and I didn't want anymore pain. I just wanted a friends to do things with. But, the girl I dated first cried one night when I took her back to the dorm. Upon asking her what was wrong she said she wanted to "go steady".

I knew that wasn't what I wanted to do, but I caved. After a few months I knew I wanted out of the relationship, but it took me 3 years. It waisted her time and mine with me not being honest. But, I didn't understand that I had played a role in my family of pleasing and being dependent, and not being able to cut the cord with the gf was another symptom of that dependency.

That was the first and last time I allowed myself to do that with a relationship. I had learned my lesson in that respect.

You can work out of all of this. Just hang with the program. Some other reading would be beneficial as well in regards to dependency. I've already given the title of the book that rang my bell as to what I was doing. There are lots of books on dysfunctional families and setting boundaries that may be of benefit. If you never crash as a result of your dysfunction, some people live their entire lives in it.

My problem is my opinion on this waffles like a pancake. Some days I think, "Well, if she doesn't have a problem with it, who am I to?" Other days I think, "For Pete's sake, woman, get out and live on your own." It's like I have no opinion and just snap to the opinion of whoever is around.

This is dependency speaking. This is what happened to us with our family, we lost touch with who we were. We were sucked into the role of people pleaser. As you work the program your self esteem will improve and things will become clearer and you'll feel stronger. But guilt and doubt will still be there, just not as strong. The main thing is to go with your gut, your instincts. It's okay to make a mistake and be wrong. That's how we learn sometimes and become more in touch with who we really are.

Don57 · Post by **Don57** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:31 am

Sorry for the pain you've experienced, Mike. I have been there also, including nausea and loss of appetite. Glad to see the program has worked so well for you. Have a good weekend. You deserve it.

Don57 · Post by **Don57** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:51 am

spowers,

If you see this, I wish I had made a different approach to your post now. I know it puts stress on a person when someone comes on the way I did. At the same time, I still don't see the post as being very helpful. I've had people tell me the same things, things I was already doing or trying to do. They just seemed to want to be a bully. That's how I interpreted your posts, right or wrong.

I wish you success with the program. I notice you say you have no reason for being depressed. That's what I thought as well. Unless your depression is biological, there are things you are not aware of that are going on creating your depression. I would suggest looking at dysfunctional families and the roles children play in them. The fact you didn't pick up on doogiet may be a signal you are unaware of what's going on with you and your family also. You disregarded clear signals with doogiet that his family was the source of his problems. Things a psychologist would have picked up on immediately. I would suggest finding some books on the subject and learning about it. If I can help in any way, I'd be willing to try. No one in or around my family ever suspected that my parents could have been the source of my problems and they still don't to this day. Good luck to you.

MC Grace · Post by **MC Grace** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:32 am

Hi doog,
I noticed this in your last post:

My parents didn't neglect me, in the sense that I was a baby screaming for attention, rattling in its crib.

It's nice to hear that you can appreciate your parents, while recognizing that they didn't always make the best choices. Personally, I am trying to be more compassionate--and I think this has to do with being able to analyze something without being overly critical, especially in a negative sense.

It has to do with imagining ourselves in another persons shoes, as appropriate. . . recognizing the limits we have as humans, parents, children. . . . It has to do with praising a good effort--and asking for and giving forgiveness.

I know this is a constant struggle in my family. And from what you shared there is a somewhat similar struggle with boundaries, attempts at manipulation, difficulty expressing love--and different members of the family being at turns both overbearing and overly fearful fits in here, too.

As Lucinda (and lots of other wise people) might say: things aren't always black and white. I think you agree with this, based on your basic writing. (So are you ready to amend that onerous "Lucinda is dead wrong on this. . ."

)? Come on, ya gotta do it sometime :p!

Anyways, the judgment thing is something that we need to be careful about when considering own lives and choices, too. (Sometimes it's just better to say--"I'll reserve judgment"). It's not that I don't believe in taking responsibility as necessary. It's just that rushing into judgment is dangerous, when dealing with people as imperfect as . . . well--people.

It often helps us grow when we can be easier on ourselves and on others. Also, I think you may --in your difficulty, disappointment, and confusion-- have been a little harsh in trying to throw God out of your life, when you didn't get saved from panic attacks the way you wanted. It may be, that God has something better in mind. (But that's a different thread. Maybe I'll start it -- Do ya like "doogiet is dead wrong on this..." as a discussion title? Of course I'd put it in the Spirituality forum.

)

Phew, that was long. (but I hope helpful and at least a little bit of fun.)

Faith_TX · Post by **Faith_TX** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:33 am

Originally posted by doogiet:
The flipside to this is that my brain keeps barking at me that "I'll never find someone else like her, etc." I know that the last part is probably negative thinking, but it's hard to shake after thinking this way for so long.

You probably won't. But, at this point, do you really want someone just like her? If you do, then just stay with her!

What you want is someone that will jive with the NEW you.

And, that's another matter entirely. As you develop into the person that you've always deserved to be, you'll find someone to go along on that journey with you. Trust me.