I have been taking xanax (.5mg at bedtime and after 4 hrs I might take another .5 mg). I just started taking 1/4 of that .5mg in the morning and that was helping.
my new "doctor" at Kaiser.. she prescribes meds but is not a Doctor and works with the therapist wanted to put me on zoloft and switch me to klonopin. I resisted. Well today i got the prescription filled for klonipin and called her because they would not refill my xanax. I told her i was extrememly paranoid that the klonopin would not work and wanted to knw if it doesnt work can i go back to the xanax and why switch a drug that is working/helping?
she said the klonopin will work and is the same dosage as the xanax and she would not switch me back to xanax and that i am projecting my fear. she also said i have to take an ssri (zoloft) with the benzo's and i cant just take a benzo as that is not a effective way to use these drugs. i did not want to start the zoloft but said "fine, i'll try it tomorrow"
she told me the goal is to get the zoloft to start working so that i could taper off and get off the benzo's. i told her i have been reading zoloft makes you gain weight, stomach issues, bad side effects and she insisted it doesnt make you gain weight and didnt like me reading the internet of peoples opionions vs. her professional opinion. i cant believe she wont acknowledge the potential side effects like weight gain...
anyway, tonight at 8:30 i took 1/4 of .5mg of the klonopin and it was great.. helped mellow me out while getting my daughter settled for the evening. then at 9:30 i took .5mg for the night (same as i would the xanax) but 2 hrs later i am wide awake!!
i just took another .5mg and hope to god it will start working. its midnight and i have to be up at 5am. i am afraid this wont work and the doctor has told me she wont switch me back to xanax and i'd have to go to another doctor outside of kaiser if i wanted to "dictate" which drugs i want to take.
i am facing bankruptcyand foreclosure in the next 3 months and cant afford to go outside kaiser. i cant even afford to keep these appointments all the time...
any thoughts anyone?? maybe i am jumping the gun? maybe the klonopin will start working better?? i did read klonopin isnt as fast acting as xanax and you might need more but this doctor just said they are the same!
i am going to get the zoloft tomorrow with much fear and months of "fighting" not taking antidepressents.. i just cant live this way any more. i dont think i can take all of this anymore.
please some encouragement PLeASE!!
HELP... Dont trust doctor
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Guest
Sorry you are feeling this way. I take ativan .5mg in the morning and used to take one in the afternoon but I heard bad things about benzos so I stopped taking the one in the afternoon. My aniexty is still here and after months of fighting like you I was in such turmoil I could not take it anymore so I broke down at the Docs and he gave me zoloft. At this time in my life I can care less about side effects I only been on a week and so far so good. If it makes me gain weight so be it the way I feel right now sucks so weight or no weight I just want to have some peace. Mornings are the worst for me so I think I will start to take an ativan at night so maybe I will not be so anixous in the morning. I have fought medicine for so long but right now in my life I need them so I can start to live and then I will try to apply the coping skills and hopefully one day I will get off.
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Guest
Hi,
I will just simply add, as I have so many times before, you have to be proactive and your own best advocate in matters related to medical care and associated prescription medication.
I believe that the link I have proved so many times before is the place you and everyone here needs to start to check on things before they accept anyone's observations or any Doctors prescriptions. Manage all things including your health by fact not rumor or hearsay. Does that make sense to you?
<A HREF="http://www.livingnaturally.com/common/a ... ndications" TARGET=_blank>http://www.livingnaturally.com/common/a ... cations</A>
Here is another link to the National Institute of Health:
<A HREF="http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... de-effects" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... effects</A>
If you check on the adverse reactions to Zoloft; Weight Gain, among other things, is a potential for some people (1-10% of users). You were right and they were wrong.
Please read all of the information so you can be better informed. Print it out and take it back to your Doctor.
Here is a link on natural alternatives to Zoloft:
<A HREF="http://webhealthclinic.com/Battling-Dep ... rce=Zoloft" TARGET=_blank>http://webhealthclinic.com/Battling-Dep ... =Zoloft</A>
Information is power, and you need to know what you are putting into your body before you just accept what is given to you. Yes, challenge your Doctors, most of them know little or nothing about the stuff they give their patients, except what they have been told by pharmaceutical sales people and the feedback they may get from their patients. Those are their primary sources of information on the treatment they provide.
The other side of this is that Xanax is considered addictive and that may be their concern, but what about taking you off meds and putting you on natural?
I hope this helps.
I will just simply add, as I have so many times before, you have to be proactive and your own best advocate in matters related to medical care and associated prescription medication.
I believe that the link I have proved so many times before is the place you and everyone here needs to start to check on things before they accept anyone's observations or any Doctors prescriptions. Manage all things including your health by fact not rumor or hearsay. Does that make sense to you?
<A HREF="http://www.livingnaturally.com/common/a ... ndications" TARGET=_blank>http://www.livingnaturally.com/common/a ... cations</A>
Here is another link to the National Institute of Health:
<A HREF="http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... de-effects" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... effects</A>
If you check on the adverse reactions to Zoloft; Weight Gain, among other things, is a potential for some people (1-10% of users). You were right and they were wrong.
Please read all of the information so you can be better informed. Print it out and take it back to your Doctor.
Here is a link on natural alternatives to Zoloft:
<A HREF="http://webhealthclinic.com/Battling-Dep ... rce=Zoloft" TARGET=_blank>http://webhealthclinic.com/Battling-Dep ... =Zoloft</A>
Information is power, and you need to know what you are putting into your body before you just accept what is given to you. Yes, challenge your Doctors, most of them know little or nothing about the stuff they give their patients, except what they have been told by pharmaceutical sales people and the feedback they may get from their patients. Those are their primary sources of information on the treatment they provide.
The other side of this is that Xanax is considered addictive and that may be their concern, but what about taking you off meds and putting you on natural?
I hope this helps.
-
Guest
I get a little irritated at certain 'all mighty' doctors. Doctors are great for emergencies, and I have much respect for them... but the ones handling day to day care, I take them with a big grain of sea salt. There are doctors far and few between with your best interests at heart and I hope you can find a good listener.
I say you DO get to dictate, she's working for you, no? Otherwise I'd get another doctor. Doctors really know VERY little about meds, I used to take meds for my cholesterol but now control it with diet and lifestyle changes, but when I did, I would always ask the pharmacist and never the doctor about anything regarding the drug. Pharmacists know SO much more about drugs, interactions, etc. Doctors know that if they push a certain drug they often get incentives from pharmaceutical companies.
Please keep us posted!
I say you DO get to dictate, she's working for you, no? Otherwise I'd get another doctor. Doctors really know VERY little about meds, I used to take meds for my cholesterol but now control it with diet and lifestyle changes, but when I did, I would always ask the pharmacist and never the doctor about anything regarding the drug. Pharmacists know SO much more about drugs, interactions, etc. Doctors know that if they push a certain drug they often get incentives from pharmaceutical companies.
Please keep us posted!
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Guest
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Guest
Hi LauriKay,
It seems you started a topic that has fired up a lot of people and this is turning into an outbreak of a patient revolution.
I think that is what our approach has to be. We have to be assertive and proactive about the treatment we receive. We are not their personal guinea pigs that they experiment with to find out if they are on the right track of treatment. I think all us realize that in any treatment, there is some trial an error, but sometimes this it is just ridiculous.
I once told one of my Doctors who was giving me a bunch of different medications, that I am not going to take some medications because I had some adverse side effects, and he said that I was just being contrary, and being a difficult patient. To wit I asked him: Have you ever taken the meds you prescribed to me ? He answered no. Then my response was then why would you question the sincerity and of my fear of the nasty side effects I am experiencing ?!
Doctors are not God and should not be allowed to even think that they are. Shifrah is right, they should feel privileged to be treating us, and they need to listen and hear us out when we have concerns about the treatment or medications they so willy nilly prescribe to get us out of their office to move on to the next patient.
And so the battle rages. Today is Monday the 23rd Of February 2009, and folks, that's the way it is. LOL
Please check out my topic in this section of the forum it got buried when I responded to this thread:
<A HREF="http://bbs.stresscenter.com/eve/forums/ ... 4911068246" TARGET=_blank>http://bbs.stresscenter.com/eve/forums/ ... 1068246</A>
Thanks.
It seems you started a topic that has fired up a lot of people and this is turning into an outbreak of a patient revolution.
I think that is what our approach has to be. We have to be assertive and proactive about the treatment we receive. We are not their personal guinea pigs that they experiment with to find out if they are on the right track of treatment. I think all us realize that in any treatment, there is some trial an error, but sometimes this it is just ridiculous.
I once told one of my Doctors who was giving me a bunch of different medications, that I am not going to take some medications because I had some adverse side effects, and he said that I was just being contrary, and being a difficult patient. To wit I asked him: Have you ever taken the meds you prescribed to me ? He answered no. Then my response was then why would you question the sincerity and of my fear of the nasty side effects I am experiencing ?!
Doctors are not God and should not be allowed to even think that they are. Shifrah is right, they should feel privileged to be treating us, and they need to listen and hear us out when we have concerns about the treatment or medications they so willy nilly prescribe to get us out of their office to move on to the next patient.
And so the battle rages. Today is Monday the 23rd Of February 2009, and folks, that's the way it is. LOL
Please check out my topic in this section of the forum it got buried when I responded to this thread:
<A HREF="http://bbs.stresscenter.com/eve/forums/ ... 4911068246" TARGET=_blank>http://bbs.stresscenter.com/eve/forums/ ... 1068246</A>
Thanks.
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Guest
I agree with everyone on here. I hate that a doctor-patient relationship tends to model a parent-child relationship with the doctor acting like a parent, and the patient either acting like and/or being treated like a child. This especially happens in psychiatry. Patients with mental conditions are often treated like irresponsible children who never perceive anything correctly and never know what's best for them, and they are taught that they should blindly trust those in the medical profession. This is not healthy for anyone. You are in a partnership with your doctor. You are paying them for their services, knowledge and expertise. You have every right to question a doctor's decision, and a good doctor will take the time to explain to you their reasoning without being offended.
The trust issue. I have a huge opinion about that. The truth of the matter is that not everyone is worthy of trust. It's not healthy as an adult to never trust anyone when some are trustworthy, but it's also not healthy to trust people who aren't trustworthy. People must prove themselves worthy of being trusted, yet you will find many in the medical field who are highly offended if you do not automatically trust them.
I am not a medical doctor, but I can tell you my opinion about what I've learned about benzo's and anti-depressants through my own personal experiences and research.
First of all, xanax and klonopin are both benzo's, but they are not exactly the same. If they were, then why switch you? She lied to you for some reason, when there was no reason to lie to you. A better and more truthful explanation would have helped. Klonopin has a longer half-life than xanax which means it takes longer to work, and it takes longer to leave your system. If a drug stays in your system for a longer period, it is viewed as a more stable option, unless you have side effects from it because it takes longer to leave your system. Basically, xanax is shorter acting which means you can get it out faster if something goes wrong, but is unstable and has a lot of nasty side effects, including that it is highly addictive. A good doctor really doesn't want you on xanax for a long period of time and only on the smallest dose possible. In addition, most good doctors won't prescribe xanax by itself. It would be meant to be taken with an SSRI or other anti-depressant until relief is provided from the SSRI, and it would only be used for possible "breakthrough" attacks. In order to get you off the xanax, the doctor is probably switching you to klonopin in order to wean you off the xanax. If you are addicted to the xanax, or you desire to take it long term, the doctor could have lied to you not to upset you. I don't think a lie was necessary.
Also, a good doctor who sees med's as being the answer for anxiety, does want you on an anti-depressant instead of the xanax for the long term. The anti-depressant does have side effects, but xanax does too.
I personally can't take either, or don't want to, and it isn't because I'm just being anxious about potential side effects. I mean, other than the fact that I didn't have a seizure, I had every other side effect from xanax, and it literally makes me sick to my stomach to think about the time I was on it. I like to say, "xanax and I are not friends at all." It wasn't always that way. When I began to have serious anxiety, I really loved xanax. I didn't take a high dose either. I liked that it wasn't a long-term commitment. I liked that it did calm me down at first. I also want to emphasize that I wasn't presribed xanax by itself, but I was afraid to take the prescribed Celexa because I had to have a catheter after taking Paxil years earlier. I wasn't afraid of med's until after that reaction to Paxil. The side effect didn't kill me, but it just showed how very, very, very, very sensitive I am to anticholernigic effects. I can't take anti-histamines either. Although the Paxil did me that way, I stayed on the xanax in a small dose. It did help some on a very small dose for a few months, but it had some side effects too. I got off it extremely slow, and then years later tried it again after serious stress. It was just the xanax though. I don't know what was different this time in 2000 and 2001. It could have been that the level of stress was higher, that I had had a baby and my hormones may have been a factor, I don't know, but it didn't take long for me to have horrible rebound attacks. I will take a bad "natural" panic attack any day over a hellish rebound attack. Although the dose was small, I also began to have withdrawal symptoms any time the xanax left my system. The only time I felt somewhat normal was right after the initial dose kicked in. As soon as it wore off, no matter how high the dose, I was in withdrawal. The symptoms were horrible. I went diarrhea on myself, my normally low blood pressure would suddently shoot up, my body would constantly burn, I had a horrible effect of feeling like my bones were rubbing together between my joints-it's hard to explain, and at the worst of it, I couldn't eat, sleep, or drink, and I had a hyper reaction where I had some mild auditory hallucinations. It was pure hell, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I do want to say that my pain was highly elevated by the fact that I had extremely poor medical care. There were doctors who didn't know me because I was new to the community who kept telling me, "It's just your anxiety." I was like that for a month, and eventually found a doctor who would admit it was the xanax. He switched me to Klonopin and Effexor, and I took one dose of each, but after what I went through with the xanax, I just wanted everything out of my body. Medically, I wasn't on the xanax long enough for it to be considered "cold turkey" quitting, so I don't recommend that, but I just wanted everything out. So, I don't automatically trust doctors. With current research which was not being admitted almost ten years ago, now any doctor I go to will admit I had withdrawal symptoms from xanax. Anyway, xanax and I aren't friends, and I don't want to scare anyone because it seems to work for some people, but I think that you have to be terribly careful with any benzo. All med's have their side effects, and benzo's aren't superior to anti-depressants or vice versa. You have to have a good doctor that is trustworthy, and I know that's hard to find. It isn't worth it to me at this time to try meds.
So overall, my opinion is that you are not supposed to automatically trust someone just because they have a medical degree. You also deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and no doctor should ever lie to you even if they think it's to get you to do what is best. I mean, there may be a rare instance, and I mean very rare. For example, a loved one has passed away in an emergency situation and you are about to go into emergency surgery and could die from the stress of knowing the news. Probably not the best time to tell you the truth, but that is a very rare situation. But this was not one of those situations. I do tend to be anti-med because of my horrific experiences, but it looks like your doctor is worried about you being dependent on xanax for long-term treatment of your anxiety. It's just a general medical view that an anti-depressant is more effective and safer for long-term treatment of anxiety. I don't tend to think that either is a good long term option, but just to let you know that your doctor is following a general medical consensus. However, lies were unnecessary, and questioning a doctor is not automatically a symptom of your anxiety, and you don't deserve to be treated like a child.
Take care,
luvpiggy
The trust issue. I have a huge opinion about that. The truth of the matter is that not everyone is worthy of trust. It's not healthy as an adult to never trust anyone when some are trustworthy, but it's also not healthy to trust people who aren't trustworthy. People must prove themselves worthy of being trusted, yet you will find many in the medical field who are highly offended if you do not automatically trust them.
I am not a medical doctor, but I can tell you my opinion about what I've learned about benzo's and anti-depressants through my own personal experiences and research.
First of all, xanax and klonopin are both benzo's, but they are not exactly the same. If they were, then why switch you? She lied to you for some reason, when there was no reason to lie to you. A better and more truthful explanation would have helped. Klonopin has a longer half-life than xanax which means it takes longer to work, and it takes longer to leave your system. If a drug stays in your system for a longer period, it is viewed as a more stable option, unless you have side effects from it because it takes longer to leave your system. Basically, xanax is shorter acting which means you can get it out faster if something goes wrong, but is unstable and has a lot of nasty side effects, including that it is highly addictive. A good doctor really doesn't want you on xanax for a long period of time and only on the smallest dose possible. In addition, most good doctors won't prescribe xanax by itself. It would be meant to be taken with an SSRI or other anti-depressant until relief is provided from the SSRI, and it would only be used for possible "breakthrough" attacks. In order to get you off the xanax, the doctor is probably switching you to klonopin in order to wean you off the xanax. If you are addicted to the xanax, or you desire to take it long term, the doctor could have lied to you not to upset you. I don't think a lie was necessary.
Also, a good doctor who sees med's as being the answer for anxiety, does want you on an anti-depressant instead of the xanax for the long term. The anti-depressant does have side effects, but xanax does too.
I personally can't take either, or don't want to, and it isn't because I'm just being anxious about potential side effects. I mean, other than the fact that I didn't have a seizure, I had every other side effect from xanax, and it literally makes me sick to my stomach to think about the time I was on it. I like to say, "xanax and I are not friends at all." It wasn't always that way. When I began to have serious anxiety, I really loved xanax. I didn't take a high dose either. I liked that it wasn't a long-term commitment. I liked that it did calm me down at first. I also want to emphasize that I wasn't presribed xanax by itself, but I was afraid to take the prescribed Celexa because I had to have a catheter after taking Paxil years earlier. I wasn't afraid of med's until after that reaction to Paxil. The side effect didn't kill me, but it just showed how very, very, very, very sensitive I am to anticholernigic effects. I can't take anti-histamines either. Although the Paxil did me that way, I stayed on the xanax in a small dose. It did help some on a very small dose for a few months, but it had some side effects too. I got off it extremely slow, and then years later tried it again after serious stress. It was just the xanax though. I don't know what was different this time in 2000 and 2001. It could have been that the level of stress was higher, that I had had a baby and my hormones may have been a factor, I don't know, but it didn't take long for me to have horrible rebound attacks. I will take a bad "natural" panic attack any day over a hellish rebound attack. Although the dose was small, I also began to have withdrawal symptoms any time the xanax left my system. The only time I felt somewhat normal was right after the initial dose kicked in. As soon as it wore off, no matter how high the dose, I was in withdrawal. The symptoms were horrible. I went diarrhea on myself, my normally low blood pressure would suddently shoot up, my body would constantly burn, I had a horrible effect of feeling like my bones were rubbing together between my joints-it's hard to explain, and at the worst of it, I couldn't eat, sleep, or drink, and I had a hyper reaction where I had some mild auditory hallucinations. It was pure hell, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I do want to say that my pain was highly elevated by the fact that I had extremely poor medical care. There were doctors who didn't know me because I was new to the community who kept telling me, "It's just your anxiety." I was like that for a month, and eventually found a doctor who would admit it was the xanax. He switched me to Klonopin and Effexor, and I took one dose of each, but after what I went through with the xanax, I just wanted everything out of my body. Medically, I wasn't on the xanax long enough for it to be considered "cold turkey" quitting, so I don't recommend that, but I just wanted everything out. So, I don't automatically trust doctors. With current research which was not being admitted almost ten years ago, now any doctor I go to will admit I had withdrawal symptoms from xanax. Anyway, xanax and I aren't friends, and I don't want to scare anyone because it seems to work for some people, but I think that you have to be terribly careful with any benzo. All med's have their side effects, and benzo's aren't superior to anti-depressants or vice versa. You have to have a good doctor that is trustworthy, and I know that's hard to find. It isn't worth it to me at this time to try meds.
So overall, my opinion is that you are not supposed to automatically trust someone just because they have a medical degree. You also deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and no doctor should ever lie to you even if they think it's to get you to do what is best. I mean, there may be a rare instance, and I mean very rare. For example, a loved one has passed away in an emergency situation and you are about to go into emergency surgery and could die from the stress of knowing the news. Probably not the best time to tell you the truth, but that is a very rare situation. But this was not one of those situations. I do tend to be anti-med because of my horrific experiences, but it looks like your doctor is worried about you being dependent on xanax for long-term treatment of your anxiety. It's just a general medical view that an anti-depressant is more effective and safer for long-term treatment of anxiety. I don't tend to think that either is a good long term option, but just to let you know that your doctor is following a general medical consensus. However, lies were unnecessary, and questioning a doctor is not automatically a symptom of your anxiety, and you don't deserve to be treated like a child.
Take care,
luvpiggy
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Guest
The best advice I can give to you, is if the medication Xanax works for you, continue to take it. Do not let the Doctor you are seeing pressure you into trying a different medication that would possibly worsen your symtoms.
In my opinion, most Doctors do not care about their patients mental wellbeing. They depend on people being sick, to keep their day jobs. Your case is a prime example of a Doctor more interested in using you as some sort of experiment to try out new medication on, then actually listening to you and re-prescribing the medication Xanax, which you know and have told your Doctor works very well for you.
In my opinion, most Doctors do not care about their patients mental wellbeing. They depend on people being sick, to keep their day jobs. Your case is a prime example of a Doctor more interested in using you as some sort of experiment to try out new medication on, then actually listening to you and re-prescribing the medication Xanax, which you know and have told your Doctor works very well for you.