Psychophysiological Insomnia
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BassGirl08
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:44 pm
I too have a string of different health problems and random diagnoses, for years dealt with them and they left me hardly able to function and not getting much of any sleep. Because of those health problems I developed psychophysiological insomnia,a form of anxiety, also known as "learned insomnia". It is ruling my life. On a lucky night I get four hours of sleep. I'm averaging 2. I can hardly function and it just keeps fuling the anxiety. The health stuff just keeps it bad. I'm on session 3 and trying as best I know how. Not one medication after 5 years has been able to help much and we are soon moving to the emsam patch. I had ECT 6 times to no evail. Anybody else dealt with this and what were ways you found relief and were able to calm down? I read scriptures religiously but still can't seem to find peace, the peace of God I so desperately need. I am at wits end and my psychiatrist, who is phenominal has no idea what to do, because I have adverse reactions to meds, xanax and benzos keep me awake, hypnotics have no effect, every anti-depressant to this point including the bipolar he want to try have done nothing. Sorry I had to vent and need somebody who understands.
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Guest
I am on the 6 mg EMSAM patch. You're the first I've seen here on it also. I've been on it since Nov with better results than anything else, but I also started this program and was saved around the same time. I attribute them all to my turning point. Please let me know how you fare on the EMSAM. One note- I tried the 9 mg and it was TOO stimulating as were some of the other meds. I got zero sleep.
Sleep has been a recurrent problem for me. No meds work anymore for that but I'm scared to stop the Ambien CR for fear of no sleep. I average 4-5 hrs per night. Sometimes when my husband wakes at 5 am for work, I am in tears for being up all night and not being able to face the day. It always works out though, sometimes it's rough. But I used to cry and panic at bedtime, esp when everyone went to sleep. I felt so alone and scared of something bad happening. Today, I can tolerate it fairly well. I have several books, know the tv schedule, and try not to get out of bed and get going like I want to. I keep a list by my bed of things I think of to write down and worry about tomorrow. It's a slow process but I think I'm in the right direcion. Have some ways to go still. You can tell from my posts the ups and downs of the days.
Sorry for the lack of advice. Just wanted you to know that there is someone else there too. Please contact me anytime you like.
Sleep has been a recurrent problem for me. No meds work anymore for that but I'm scared to stop the Ambien CR for fear of no sleep. I average 4-5 hrs per night. Sometimes when my husband wakes at 5 am for work, I am in tears for being up all night and not being able to face the day. It always works out though, sometimes it's rough. But I used to cry and panic at bedtime, esp when everyone went to sleep. I felt so alone and scared of something bad happening. Today, I can tolerate it fairly well. I have several books, know the tv schedule, and try not to get out of bed and get going like I want to. I keep a list by my bed of things I think of to write down and worry about tomorrow. It's a slow process but I think I'm in the right direcion. Have some ways to go still. You can tell from my posts the ups and downs of the days.
Sorry for the lack of advice. Just wanted you to know that there is someone else there too. Please contact me anytime you like.
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Guest
BassGirl08
I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time with your sleeping. I've had an insomnia problem myself which was due to fear of sleeping itself and waking up. This is a kind of learn insomnia as well and yes it does make it very very hard to function.
Orthodox methods don't seem to work for me either...so what's next? Alternative medicine possibly...I actually went for training to try to deal with this...maybe they have been looking in the wrong areas.
I'm wondering how your digestive system is...do you have bloating...do you eliminate at least once a day? and is it full or pebbles? (sorry for getting detailed but it is important)
I can suggest some natural herbs you could try...Passionflower tincture in green tea 3X a day (great for calming down, I've used this one before), Valerian is good for sleep.
I'd also advice you to look into detoxes and cleanses.
Mike
I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time with your sleeping. I've had an insomnia problem myself which was due to fear of sleeping itself and waking up. This is a kind of learn insomnia as well and yes it does make it very very hard to function.
Orthodox methods don't seem to work for me either...so what's next? Alternative medicine possibly...I actually went for training to try to deal with this...maybe they have been looking in the wrong areas.
I'm wondering how your digestive system is...do you have bloating...do you eliminate at least once a day? and is it full or pebbles? (sorry for getting detailed but it is important)
I can suggest some natural herbs you could try...Passionflower tincture in green tea 3X a day (great for calming down, I've used this one before), Valerian is good for sleep.
I'd also advice you to look into detoxes and cleanses.
Mike
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Guest
Thanks so much for the advice. What are some positive thoughts that you used when feeling exhausted, tired, or drugged out?
They gave me medicine that finally brought sleep but it is so sedating during the day it's hard to do anything, like today. I definitely need to think positively.
Yes, Ninja it has turned into a fear of sleeping. What did you do that helped? I am not having many bowel movements. Mostly because I am on lithium and it soaks up all the water because it is a salt.
I think the biggest problem is calming down. The more I try to and think about it I can't, like Lucinda says, don't think about the body symptoms. What are some ways you found helpful to calm down? Did you think of pleasant things, imagery?
They gave me medicine that finally brought sleep but it is so sedating during the day it's hard to do anything, like today. I definitely need to think positively.
Yes, Ninja it has turned into a fear of sleeping. What did you do that helped? I am not having many bowel movements. Mostly because I am on lithium and it soaks up all the water because it is a salt.
I think the biggest problem is calming down. The more I try to and think about it I can't, like Lucinda says, don't think about the body symptoms. What are some ways you found helpful to calm down? Did you think of pleasant things, imagery?
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Guest
Finding the positive thoughts when i'd start to feel lethargic was very very difficult for me to do. I had a fear of sleeping too...not so much now however i'm cleaning out my system and the light feel i've gotten has actually helped me to be more calm and that helps sleep and it is easier to come up with more positive things when you are having bowel movements.
I have a suggestion you could try...
buy some uniodized seasalt...it has to be uniodized or it will not work at all. Do this on a day when you are NOT GOING ANYWHERE...Get 1L of water (lukewarm) and put 2 teaspoons of this seasalt water in it....(brush your teeth and use mouthwash before hand and do this first thing in the morning...unless you're feeling dehydrated then drink a cup of water). Drink all the water all at once and expect to have many bowel movements within an hour or so. Make sure you drink at least 8 glasses of water that day...if you don't find anything...do it again the next day...then try again with trying to be positive.
Mike
I have a suggestion you could try...
buy some uniodized seasalt...it has to be uniodized or it will not work at all. Do this on a day when you are NOT GOING ANYWHERE...Get 1L of water (lukewarm) and put 2 teaspoons of this seasalt water in it....(brush your teeth and use mouthwash before hand and do this first thing in the morning...unless you're feeling dehydrated then drink a cup of water). Drink all the water all at once and expect to have many bowel movements within an hour or so. Make sure you drink at least 8 glasses of water that day...if you don't find anything...do it again the next day...then try again with trying to be positive.
Mike
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Guest
I can try that. I have been using stool softener as well as laxatives, mainly like I said because of the lithium. Before I started taking that, I was doing fine w/ fiber.
What are some positive or neutral thoughts you used when sleep came up? I seem to dwell on it all day long because I'm exhausted and not getting much but when it comes time to sleep I avoid it and seem to be more awake then all day (adrenaline). I have been hugely unsuccessfull as taking naps as well. The fear is overwhelming, I am just at a loss at dealing with it. I pray a lot, read scriptures, I have my positive mostly neutral responses at hand always, but it is just not clicking. I keep saying "sleep is a natural thing, sleep is a good thing, there is nothing to fear just let your body do what it was designed to do" but every night I am parylyzed by fear and don't get much sleep. I am also on sedatives for sleep and have become quite dependent, and they also drug me out during the day. I am seeing a psychologist sleep specialist and doing all the sleep hygiene rules, but things haven't changed yet. I just keep wondering when I will stop fearing this, it seems so ilogical when I think about it. Don't all our anxieties though? Like you said it is hugely hard to be positive when you are exhausted and running off very very little sleep and most people do not understand. It is also hard to function and do anything. Some days I can't drive. It is hard to read or concentrate. Anyways, what did you do as far as thoughts and when did it start lifting?
What are some positive or neutral thoughts you used when sleep came up? I seem to dwell on it all day long because I'm exhausted and not getting much but when it comes time to sleep I avoid it and seem to be more awake then all day (adrenaline). I have been hugely unsuccessfull as taking naps as well. The fear is overwhelming, I am just at a loss at dealing with it. I pray a lot, read scriptures, I have my positive mostly neutral responses at hand always, but it is just not clicking. I keep saying "sleep is a natural thing, sleep is a good thing, there is nothing to fear just let your body do what it was designed to do" but every night I am parylyzed by fear and don't get much sleep. I am also on sedatives for sleep and have become quite dependent, and they also drug me out during the day. I am seeing a psychologist sleep specialist and doing all the sleep hygiene rules, but things haven't changed yet. I just keep wondering when I will stop fearing this, it seems so ilogical when I think about it. Don't all our anxieties though? Like you said it is hugely hard to be positive when you are exhausted and running off very very little sleep and most people do not understand. It is also hard to function and do anything. Some days I can't drive. It is hard to read or concentrate. Anyways, what did you do as far as thoughts and when did it start lifting?
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Guest
I cannot give you a concrete answer as to how long it will take you to recover from this. I am still working on this myself and it has gotten better after cleaning out my system with the thing that i've suggested.
After reading what you just wrote, I'd say you are trying to push yourself into sleep soooo much that it is doing the opposite. It doesn't help to keep telling yourself that you aren't getting to sleep when you try to nap or try to sleep. Sometimes it isn't as necessary to fall asleep to feel relief when it comes to napping.
I've noticed after working with my digestive system that when i listen to a guided meditation (I went and downloaded about 12 of them because I've gotten bored of just listening to 1), I do feel some relief and a bit more happier. Even if it is a bit, it is still an achievement and this builds on top of itself. You may not feel 100% after the first few times you do it and that's ok. You have a limitation with sleeping and it is only normal that you have developed a fear over it and also over the symptoms you get and the lethargicness is a normal reaction to this problem. You aren't dying or going crazy, I can assure you this as I have the same experience.
The most important thing you can do in the beginning of changing the situation is to first accept it. Don't fight it, or yourself...you know this is a normal body response...many people have at least once in their life stayed up for 24 hours or only got a few hours of sleep and how do they respond? Alot of them feel really exhausted, they can't focus so much, they withdraw themselves, they can't concentrate as much, they aren't as productive and yes they can't drive as well. The only diffrence here is that with us, it is more of a chronic thing. The more you fight it, the more it will stress you out and the harder it will be to actually fall asleep...If you can start to accept that you have this problem and that it is only normal that your body responds the way it does, then you can become more and more calmer and it will be easier to work on the issue and i know this isn't an easy thing...it is very challenging but it is soooooo worth it.
Another thing...Give yourself permission to have relaxing time before you go to sleep or nap. Even if you aren't sleeping...you are at least resting your body and that helps with the exhaustion...any attempt to rest in any form is an accomplishment and will bring you closer to your goal. If you have to listen to 10 diffrent guided meditations in order to get to sleep then, so be it...forget about the sleep while you are listening to them and just focus on this.
Lifestyle is important too...I do not know if you do this but i have many many times...eatting within 2 hours of the planned sleep time. This makes it almost impossible to get to sleep....especially if what you eat is sugar. Not to mention it also is very taxing on the digestive system and actually harms it's functioning. What things are you doing before you try to go to sleep? How is your caffine intake? (I haven't had coffee in a few years and then i had 1 (this was about a year ago) and it gave me insomnia for 3 days and make me even more spacy).
There is a good chance also that your days are very similar in pattern...like a set system of things you do everyday and maybe the idea of doing something diffrent feels more stressful and even the things you do now may be stressful as well.
What kinds of foods do you typically eat? Spicy foods? (These can actually contribute to insomnia), heavy foods? (like dairy) Do you eat big meals? (I know i did, just because i felt i needed more and more energy and eatting bigger meals was what i thought was the answer and I'm realizing now that i'm on this cleanse that it was actually counter productive).
I hope this helps.
Mike
After reading what you just wrote, I'd say you are trying to push yourself into sleep soooo much that it is doing the opposite. It doesn't help to keep telling yourself that you aren't getting to sleep when you try to nap or try to sleep. Sometimes it isn't as necessary to fall asleep to feel relief when it comes to napping.
I've noticed after working with my digestive system that when i listen to a guided meditation (I went and downloaded about 12 of them because I've gotten bored of just listening to 1), I do feel some relief and a bit more happier. Even if it is a bit, it is still an achievement and this builds on top of itself. You may not feel 100% after the first few times you do it and that's ok. You have a limitation with sleeping and it is only normal that you have developed a fear over it and also over the symptoms you get and the lethargicness is a normal reaction to this problem. You aren't dying or going crazy, I can assure you this as I have the same experience.
The most important thing you can do in the beginning of changing the situation is to first accept it. Don't fight it, or yourself...you know this is a normal body response...many people have at least once in their life stayed up for 24 hours or only got a few hours of sleep and how do they respond? Alot of them feel really exhausted, they can't focus so much, they withdraw themselves, they can't concentrate as much, they aren't as productive and yes they can't drive as well. The only diffrence here is that with us, it is more of a chronic thing. The more you fight it, the more it will stress you out and the harder it will be to actually fall asleep...If you can start to accept that you have this problem and that it is only normal that your body responds the way it does, then you can become more and more calmer and it will be easier to work on the issue and i know this isn't an easy thing...it is very challenging but it is soooooo worth it.
Another thing...Give yourself permission to have relaxing time before you go to sleep or nap. Even if you aren't sleeping...you are at least resting your body and that helps with the exhaustion...any attempt to rest in any form is an accomplishment and will bring you closer to your goal. If you have to listen to 10 diffrent guided meditations in order to get to sleep then, so be it...forget about the sleep while you are listening to them and just focus on this.
Lifestyle is important too...I do not know if you do this but i have many many times...eatting within 2 hours of the planned sleep time. This makes it almost impossible to get to sleep....especially if what you eat is sugar. Not to mention it also is very taxing on the digestive system and actually harms it's functioning. What things are you doing before you try to go to sleep? How is your caffine intake? (I haven't had coffee in a few years and then i had 1 (this was about a year ago) and it gave me insomnia for 3 days and make me even more spacy).
There is a good chance also that your days are very similar in pattern...like a set system of things you do everyday and maybe the idea of doing something diffrent feels more stressful and even the things you do now may be stressful as well.
What kinds of foods do you typically eat? Spicy foods? (These can actually contribute to insomnia), heavy foods? (like dairy) Do you eat big meals? (I know i did, just because i felt i needed more and more energy and eatting bigger meals was what i thought was the answer and I'm realizing now that i'm on this cleanse that it was actually counter productive).
I hope this helps.
Mike
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Justin O. Pinyon
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:00 am
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Guest
Yes this helps. Thank-you. Mostly to know that somebody out there has the same problem. Everybody else on this program is scared of flying planes and choking and I just can't relate, sleep deprivation is a whole nother ball game especially when night after night you are getting 2 hours of sleep on average. I am doing all of the sleep hygiene rules and in fact am not napping. I am seeing a sleep specialist and following all those sleep hygiene rules. The worst part is the medication that is supposed to help leaves me absolutely sedated all day long and it's hard just to take a shower on top of not sleeping. Somebody should create a good sleep med that leaves the system quickly. And I tried ambien and lunesta and sonata, they never worked. I took two lunesta last night (don't tell my doctor) and some xanax and got one hour of sleep. If only zyprexa was short acting and didn't make people gain 20 lbs in a month. I am working on the cognitive, it would be nice though if there was something to assist me along the way. Maybe I will come up with something....not really I hate science. Anyways, guess I better get positive again, I am just frustrated. Hope you are getting some sleep! Yea I don't drink any caffeine, I have a terrible bladder disease and any caffeine would leave me in the bathroom all day. NO sugar either. I am a stevia girl! My doctor gave me adderall and I didn't know what it was, he gave it to me for a hunger disorder, anyways my whole body was shaking and I felt great all day (I exercised like 4 hours straight), then I could not calm down. I was up till 5am and I had taken a lot of sedatives. I looked it up and it is 3 amphetimines in 1, legalized speed. Don't ever ever take that! Plus it didn't take away my hunger. It is very tempting to take it but I know I won't sleep so I have resisted, although for one day I felt normal, other than the shaking all over my body.
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Guest
I can see the pattern you're cycling through...it seems like it is all you can think about right now. I am not suprised that you feel the way you do with all the meds you've been taking...thats like a med soup. Please try the salt water flush and let me know how it goes...I am getting more sleep and better quality now.
I'm also starting to come down from the cleanse i was on. If you have the time you should look into it...http://www.mastercleanser.com/forum/index.php
I've gotten soooooo much from this and I know it would help you out alot.
This is what i've gotten from the cleanse so far. <A HREF="http://www.mastercleanser.com/forum/vie ... c&start=30" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mastercleanser.com/forum/vie ... tart=30</A>
Mike
Again, Please try the Salt Water Flush and let me know.
I'm also starting to come down from the cleanse i was on. If you have the time you should look into it...http://www.mastercleanser.com/forum/index.php
I've gotten soooooo much from this and I know it would help you out alot.
This is what i've gotten from the cleanse so far. <A HREF="http://www.mastercleanser.com/forum/vie ... c&start=30" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mastercleanser.com/forum/vie ... tart=30</A>
Mike
Again, Please try the Salt Water Flush and let me know.