Help with using CBT to overcome Agoraphobia
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Guest
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Guest
Moon -
Just so we're clear, I'm assuming by recovery time you mean the time between runs. If that's the case, the answer is it varies from a few minutes to many hours. It all depends on how I'm feeling that day (my baseline anxiety) and how hard I'm pushing myself. If you were referring to whether I'm fully recovered from anxiety and agoraphobia, the answer is no, I'm still a work in progress!
I understand your reluctance to leave your safe zone. I battle the same resistance every day. Most days I don't even want to get out of bed but I know that the more I resist, the harder it gets and the more work I'll have to do later to get back to where I am now.
I've experienced a similar feeling of a need to retreat even when I'm not truly panicking or experiencing high anxiety. In those instances, I notice that my "what if" thinking has kicked into high gear and the thought that even though I'm OK now, if I keep going I'm going to really panic and then I'll be too far from home to get back. When that happens I have to remind myself that no matter how bad I feel, I always make it back home and nothing terrible ever happens. I'm always OK, every time. For twenty years, thousands of panic attacks, I'm always OK.
Regarding exercise before CBT, for me, sometimes it helps. In fact, a lot of time I'm doing CBT when I'm exercising. I like to run and cycle and both require leaving my safe zone. So I'm often fighting my anxiety even when I'm exercising. The benefit is that exercise is typically a great way for me to combat anxiety since it allows me to release all that nervous energy and burn through the extra adrenaline at the same time.
On a side note, I've come to realize that it's not the physical distance between me and my safe zone that disturbs me. Rather its the distance in terms of time. That is, how long might it take to get back to my safe zone or more specifically, how long will I have to go through panic. It's a subtle difference but it explains why I can drive 5 miles from home without thinking about it, but can only run one or two miles before I really want to turn around.
If I'm in a situation where I'm starting to panic and am not exercising, then doing some sort of aerobic exercise almost always helps. This can be jumping in place, walking, climbing stairs, or anything else that burn energy. I use this technique at work, at home, even on car rides. If on a trip I need to calm down, sometimes I get out of the car and walk around a parking lot.
I also do use exercise when I'm having anticipatory anxiety about doing something or going somewhere. While it doesn't work all the time, it usually helps to calm me down and help me focus. It certainly can't hurt to try exercise before doing some CBT. Experiment and see what works best for you.
Jamie
Just so we're clear, I'm assuming by recovery time you mean the time between runs. If that's the case, the answer is it varies from a few minutes to many hours. It all depends on how I'm feeling that day (my baseline anxiety) and how hard I'm pushing myself. If you were referring to whether I'm fully recovered from anxiety and agoraphobia, the answer is no, I'm still a work in progress!
I understand your reluctance to leave your safe zone. I battle the same resistance every day. Most days I don't even want to get out of bed but I know that the more I resist, the harder it gets and the more work I'll have to do later to get back to where I am now.
I've experienced a similar feeling of a need to retreat even when I'm not truly panicking or experiencing high anxiety. In those instances, I notice that my "what if" thinking has kicked into high gear and the thought that even though I'm OK now, if I keep going I'm going to really panic and then I'll be too far from home to get back. When that happens I have to remind myself that no matter how bad I feel, I always make it back home and nothing terrible ever happens. I'm always OK, every time. For twenty years, thousands of panic attacks, I'm always OK.
Regarding exercise before CBT, for me, sometimes it helps. In fact, a lot of time I'm doing CBT when I'm exercising. I like to run and cycle and both require leaving my safe zone. So I'm often fighting my anxiety even when I'm exercising. The benefit is that exercise is typically a great way for me to combat anxiety since it allows me to release all that nervous energy and burn through the extra adrenaline at the same time.
On a side note, I've come to realize that it's not the physical distance between me and my safe zone that disturbs me. Rather its the distance in terms of time. That is, how long might it take to get back to my safe zone or more specifically, how long will I have to go through panic. It's a subtle difference but it explains why I can drive 5 miles from home without thinking about it, but can only run one or two miles before I really want to turn around.
If I'm in a situation where I'm starting to panic and am not exercising, then doing some sort of aerobic exercise almost always helps. This can be jumping in place, walking, climbing stairs, or anything else that burn energy. I use this technique at work, at home, even on car rides. If on a trip I need to calm down, sometimes I get out of the car and walk around a parking lot.
I also do use exercise when I'm having anticipatory anxiety about doing something or going somewhere. While it doesn't work all the time, it usually helps to calm me down and help me focus. It certainly can't hurt to try exercise before doing some CBT. Experiment and see what works best for you.
Jamie
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Guest
Thank you again for responding. I do agree its the time, not the distance. For instance, my old job that required commute, I would literally watch the mile markers on the highway, and divide the distance I have left to go by the speed im traveling just so I could get it down to the minute how much longer I had to go.
You sound like despite all the hardships of anxiety, that you have a great handle on it, much more progressed than myself. Your words alone have helped my confidence, and I am going to get out and start pushing myself.
You sound like despite all the hardships of anxiety, that you have a great handle on it, much more progressed than myself. Your words alone have helped my confidence, and I am going to get out and start pushing myself.
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Guest
Hi moon314,
In response to your question, I started out a couple of times a day doing what I could. However, I tried to do as many times a day as I could without getting too tired and panicky.
Eventually, I used gradual exposure about 3 times a day... morning, afternoon and evening. I kept a journal of where I went, how I felt and my anxiety scale from 1 to 10.
I also underwent visualization with my therapist. You may wish to talk with him/her about this. It's a relaxation process for sure.
Good luck!
In response to your question, I started out a couple of times a day doing what I could. However, I tried to do as many times a day as I could without getting too tired and panicky.
Eventually, I used gradual exposure about 3 times a day... morning, afternoon and evening. I kept a journal of where I went, how I felt and my anxiety scale from 1 to 10.
I also underwent visualization with my therapist. You may wish to talk with him/her about this. It's a relaxation process for sure.
Good luck!
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Guest
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Guest
Kind of moon but not exactly. It's turning inaccurate thoughts that cause anxiety into more objective (as opposed to positive) ones. There is a difference and it makes all the difference in my experience with therapy techniques.Originally posted by moon314:
Arlenez, when you say thought countering, I assume you are speaking of reforming those negative thoughts with positive ones? IE: "Its only anxiety", rather than " Am I going crazy?"?
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Guest
I often do them before as they work as a prophylactic to anxiety for me and not just before exercise but any situation I am about to enter that might cause me anxiety.Originally posted by moon314:
Another thought/question I had. Do you notice any difference in your CBT if you do it after some sort of exercise session? Or has no one tried this?
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Guest
Ah and here i thought you were going to put some thoughts down for us and have us help come up with replacement thoughts. That would have been really fun.
Well I have had agoraphobia and I had faced it way before finding this program and I really don't recommend the way i did it. I had no skills or anything I basically just forced myself into doing it because I had nothing to back me up. Meaning I had moved into a friend's place and away from my family because it was not safe and I had to pay rent so i had forced myself to get a job. I ended up getting a job where I was helping a few hundred people onto a ski lift. Going from living in my room and only coming out when everybody else was asleep to being a ski lift operator was a huge diffrence. It was such a shock to my system that the first day i started i threw up in my mouth and then I got diharea every day i worked for 2 weeks. Not to mention really high anxiety the whole time i was there. It took 2 weeks to feel comfortable with the job and I had to leave once because I was getting really sharp stabbing pains in my intestines.
Limitations are handled in diffrent ways but In my opinion agoraphobia would be one those limitations where you would have the most control over when going to change.
Regardless of what the limitation is the first step is to accept that you have the agoraphobia, accept that it isn't your fault, accept that it is a habit and you are more likely to continue that habit until it is changed and so you may slip back many times and thats fine because it is a human response. Also accept that you can handle any outcome if it is that you fall back into the pattern or if you make progress the only thing that will happen is you will feel uncomfortable.
Get a coping mechanism in place and practice it so you are less anxious overall and that you can be able to reduce the anxiety spike when it happens. Yes you are likely to still get panicky when you face the limitation but with coping mechanisms you can actually reduce this panic feeling to something more manageable within a couple of seconds.
And finally set smaller goals...only go 1 minute outside of the city until you feel comfortable with that then try 2 minutes and so on.
As for doing the cbt before or after working out...well for me I usually do it right when i feel any kind of negative thought or feeling. If I don't feel better after writing through it then I might do some cardio or some hip-hop or yoga so I'm distracted. This for me helps to decrease my stress which gives me some more creative energy and then I try working at it again. Perhaps looking at it as negative and positive might not work for you though. If thats the case then look at it as an irrational thought and you are trying to replace it with something that is rational. ie "I'm dying of a heart attack" "No I'm not dying of a heart attack this is just anxiety, it'll only last a couple minutes I'm going to float through this and it will eventually go away". "Everybody hates me" "I don't know everybody, they don't all have the same opinions and there is nothing else because how i feel about myself that suggests this to be true"
And above all else...Telling yourself you "should/must/have to/otta/gatta" face your limitation is just going to work against you. Replacing that with "it would be more beneficial to..." or "I'd like to do .... because X (good outcomes) will happen.
Mike
Well I have had agoraphobia and I had faced it way before finding this program and I really don't recommend the way i did it. I had no skills or anything I basically just forced myself into doing it because I had nothing to back me up. Meaning I had moved into a friend's place and away from my family because it was not safe and I had to pay rent so i had forced myself to get a job. I ended up getting a job where I was helping a few hundred people onto a ski lift. Going from living in my room and only coming out when everybody else was asleep to being a ski lift operator was a huge diffrence. It was such a shock to my system that the first day i started i threw up in my mouth and then I got diharea every day i worked for 2 weeks. Not to mention really high anxiety the whole time i was there. It took 2 weeks to feel comfortable with the job and I had to leave once because I was getting really sharp stabbing pains in my intestines.
Limitations are handled in diffrent ways but In my opinion agoraphobia would be one those limitations where you would have the most control over when going to change.
Regardless of what the limitation is the first step is to accept that you have the agoraphobia, accept that it isn't your fault, accept that it is a habit and you are more likely to continue that habit until it is changed and so you may slip back many times and thats fine because it is a human response. Also accept that you can handle any outcome if it is that you fall back into the pattern or if you make progress the only thing that will happen is you will feel uncomfortable.
Get a coping mechanism in place and practice it so you are less anxious overall and that you can be able to reduce the anxiety spike when it happens. Yes you are likely to still get panicky when you face the limitation but with coping mechanisms you can actually reduce this panic feeling to something more manageable within a couple of seconds.
And finally set smaller goals...only go 1 minute outside of the city until you feel comfortable with that then try 2 minutes and so on.
As for doing the cbt before or after working out...well for me I usually do it right when i feel any kind of negative thought or feeling. If I don't feel better after writing through it then I might do some cardio or some hip-hop or yoga so I'm distracted. This for me helps to decrease my stress which gives me some more creative energy and then I try working at it again. Perhaps looking at it as negative and positive might not work for you though. If thats the case then look at it as an irrational thought and you are trying to replace it with something that is rational. ie "I'm dying of a heart attack" "No I'm not dying of a heart attack this is just anxiety, it'll only last a couple minutes I'm going to float through this and it will eventually go away". "Everybody hates me" "I don't know everybody, they don't all have the same opinions and there is nothing else because how i feel about myself that suggests this to be true"
And above all else...Telling yourself you "should/must/have to/otta/gatta" face your limitation is just going to work against you. Replacing that with "it would be more beneficial to..." or "I'd like to do .... because X (good outcomes) will happen.
Mike