Jer 17,
I can 100% understand why it is so hard for you right now. In fact, it's harder for you then it was for me because these are my in-law's and not my actually parents. Tell your fiance that they have seen me as the enemy for a long time. It is hurtful. It just got to this point where they were making me choose between them and God. For them to like me, I would have to be a racist, hate people who are disabled, move in with them and not be a mother to my child...for example, my mother in law thought my son was going to be her son, but ofcourse she withdrew her love when she found out he had autism, never ever get angry or sad, etc. The list would be crazy, and that's the last thing God wants.
Another book that is just my backbone for dealing with this situation second only to the Bible is "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse". I can't emphasize what an amazing impact that book has had on me for dealing with my in-law's, and just in my spiritual life in learning that God speaks to me and actually my in-law's would be the last people that God would use to guide me because their hearts are in the wrong place. We don't live in their community, but if we did, I don't think I could ever go to their church again and watch my father in law be so fake on the pulpit and promote their false image. Your parents may not be conscious of what they are doing, but they are spiritually abusing you when they use their position in the church to try to control you. Please understand that spiritual abuse doesn't have to mean that your parents cut the heads of chickens:), etc. That's why the book emphasizes that it's often "subtle". In addition, the book shows how Jesus spent most of his time on this earth healing and challenging the pharisees for their "subtle" spiritual abuse.
I mean, your dad saying that he is the main one that knows what God wants for you is very damaging. My father in law acts that way. What he wants is for my husband to quit acting like a grown up 35 year old and move back in with them. He wants my husband to divorce me, and he wants us to put our autistic son in an institution so that he will be separate from society because it makes them very uncomfortable to be around even innocent little children who are sick and don't add to their perfect image. I think in this situation, that since God uses bad situations for good, that God is using this painful situation to show you the truth about your parents because He wants to show you that He is the only One you need to be dependent on and that He will guide you in what's best for you. The vail has been torn.
I also want to share with you that the last time my brother in law contacted my husband and abused scripture to try to make my husband feel guilty about separating from his parents, my husband had a very vivid dream. He dreamt that we were in his parent's house with me and our son, and we were trying to get out. Where one of the walls should have been there was a sheet that was torn instead and on it was a picture of a Lion that my husband thought looked like Aslan from Chronicles of Narnia. We were able to escape through the sheet that we know represented Jesus and the torn vail. Outside my husband saw a crow sitting on a dead tree crowing to say we were escaping, and he realized in the dream that it was his brother spying on us and trying to make us go back to a place that God had clearly gotten us out of. My husband never dreams like that, and it just gave us peace, because we really don't want to have to cut them off, but they are just out to destroy us on so many levels, and God wants to protect us from that. The same with you.
I'm not telling you to cut your parents off, especially as a first step, but moving out on your own is a great step at independence. Just know that they are not going to see things differently. I hope they come around, but they may not. So, as this program says, "No one can make you feel guilty without your consent." My in-law's play the games, but they don't work on me and my husband because we decide not to fall for it after knowing the truth. Other people in their church may come around and say, "You're parents are just heartbroken that y'all don't go there", but only we're the ones that know how they ignore our son when we're there, the mean and indirect ways they try to manipulate us(I mean, I could tell you stories that would make your draw drop), that my grandmother in law said that my son was going to hell because of his autism, and we also know that when our son stopped breathing because of a seizure and was hospitalized that they wouldn't come and actually my mother in law was rude to me when I called her-actually they had just come to visit and when on and on about how my father in law sang "Twinkle Little Star" to a girl who was getting her stomach pumped, and then it was like God gave them the opportunity to be there for our son, and they didn't take it. Also, because of that visit, I decided to believe their story about how helpful they were, and it really hurt me in an emergency when my mother in law was so rude to me when the ambulance was on its way. So, we know the truth, and we just trust that God knows the truth and guides us. The people in the chruch only see the false image they put out.
The anxiety is hard to deal with, but you may find that when you deal with these issues of boundaries and self-confidence that you are not going against God, etc. your anxiety may improve from just getting away from them physically.
If you want to private message me to talk further, please feel free to do so because I am someone who definitely understands. A lot of people have controlling parents, but when you add the Pastor element and the spiritual abuse, not everyone understands the power of that, and I promise that I do. I will support you by private message in anyway I can. I really do know how hard it is, and I've had to work through so much. I want to say that there are times that I still struggle because it is so hard, but it gets easier with time to know that God is really guiding me. He's just an awesome God who wants you to be able to come to Him with no "go betweens". He can and does use people, but there are numerous times when pastors are actually the last people to go to. It's sad it's that way, but it's been that way for a long time, and Jesus went to town with those Pharisees over it:). Jesus is going to bat for you right now as well. He really is.
God bless you,
luvpiggy
Should I move out???
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Guest
Oh, Honey... I saw the "offense" and I totally understand why you forgave him! In the scheme of life... not that big a deal!!! I can also understand that parents can be over-protective... which is what it sounds like you're dealing with. I take back the "Mother knows best" comment. Iknow you'll do what's best for you. You sound like an intelligent, capable woman that can take good care of herself!Originally posted by Jer17:
AmyVT -
I think they are still hurt from seeing me hurt over postponing the wedding. He was honest with me about something in his past and it was hard to accept at first. We are going to Christian counseling every week and I have seen a Christian therapist on my own and they think that us working out our problems is good. It was not a deal breaker in other words. My parents loved him dearly (for 2 years) before he was honest about this one thing...and I feel like they are harboring unforgiveness towards him for hurting me. Thanks sweetie!!!
Eastcoastgirl -
Thanks for the encouragement. I am praying that God does really give them true, forgiving hearts soon...
Luvpiggy -
WOW. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me...it means so much to know you understand this parent/pastor dynamic. I def will suffer some "going against God" or "not living for God" speeches and attitudes by moving out and even switching to my fiance's new church (he stopped going to my dad's church when this all went down). I am dreading it. I would love to keep in touch with you via private message. Our counselor keeps strongly advising me to really consider moving out soon because he fears that we will take steps backwards in our sessions if I stay around them too much. My anxiety makes this such a HARD step to take right now. But we'll talk more...thank you so much and God bless you too!
AmyVT -
Thanks sweetie. I appreciate your support. It's been such a difficult road but thank you for your kind words...truly lifted my spirits!
Thanks for the encouragement. I am praying that God does really give them true, forgiving hearts soon...
Luvpiggy -
WOW. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me...it means so much to know you understand this parent/pastor dynamic. I def will suffer some "going against God" or "not living for God" speeches and attitudes by moving out and even switching to my fiance's new church (he stopped going to my dad's church when this all went down). I am dreading it. I would love to keep in touch with you via private message. Our counselor keeps strongly advising me to really consider moving out soon because he fears that we will take steps backwards in our sessions if I stay around them too much. My anxiety makes this such a HARD step to take right now. But we'll talk more...thank you so much and God bless you too!
AmyVT -
Thanks sweetie. I appreciate your support. It's been such a difficult road but thank you for your kind words...truly lifted my spirits!
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Guest
I am in the middle of Session 4 and they advise not to make any big changes until you're done with the program...and here I am seriously contemplating moving out on my own for the first time. Any opinions on this regarding my situation of moving out?
I know I've been having some anticipatory anxiety thinking about actually moving out...along with the "spacey feeling" every day (this is my most scary and annoying symptom). And of course that has been making it more difficult to actually follow through. Anyway, I was just looking for some input/advice regarding my decision and what Session 4 says.
I know I've been having some anticipatory anxiety thinking about actually moving out...along with the "spacey feeling" every day (this is my most scary and annoying symptom). And of course that has been making it more difficult to actually follow through. Anyway, I was just looking for some input/advice regarding my decision and what Session 4 says.
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Guest
Jer 17,
It just really depends on the circumstances. If you are in a horribly abusive situation and if your parents are going to destroy the relationship with the mate that God has chosen for you, then over the long term, it is better to move out as soon as possible. However, if there is some type of middle ground and a slower process for you so you can build up the best coping skills and get the most support then that is a good way to go. That's just not always possible in all situations. What does your counselor think about this program? I think your counselor can help you asses how this program fits in with the decision to move out.
As far as the spacey feeling is concerned, that used to be one of my major symptoms, and at it's worst, it is hard to deal with. I found that the depersonalization comes from general stress and anxiety, and also in the situation that you are in which was similar to mine, your parents have been so involved in your life that part of you doesn't know who you are without them. They haven't let you develop your own identity, make your own choices, and trust yourself. It's all about boundaries, and that's why the thought of moving away from them makes you have that symptom. Just know that that's what it is. I do believe in baby steps whenever you can make them, but I understand that sometimes that isn't the best thing, and it's just so hard. However, I can think of two examples in my life where I have looked back and realized that I should have left sooner, but God still worked it out for me. He gives us chances and choices. I know this isn't the spiritual section, but I have found that God gently and lovingly guides you and is never manipulative. He understands that you are a work in progress for the rest of your life. Look to Him, and see if everything lines up for you. Very few things in life are final. Look at all of your options and the worst case scenarios. Is this really an "undoable" situation. However, you don't want to move out and be so overwhelmed by anxiety that you move back with them and are afraid to try again. But even if that happens, I think that the more you do this program and counseling, I doubt that you'll never try again.
I even remember living with my in-law's the last and final time. It ended up being horrible, but it really showed me who they were. My son was showing symptoms of autism, but I didn't know what it was, and they kept saying that I was crazy. My in-laws weren't saying anything to my face at that point, but they called me "crazy" on the day that everything exploded because I pushed it, but I developed horrible depersonalization before that. I think my body was telling me that we were in a horrible situation, and we needed to get away from them. Had we stayed, our son wouldn't have even been diagnosed to get help. I had to get away from them to get him help. It was hard. So, in that case, my depersonalization lessened when I got away from them. It came back later after a lot of trauma and my son's diagnosis, and I hate what I went through, but I didn't have this program, and I hadn't read the books on boundaries. I think you are in a much better position than I was.
When are you getting married? Is it possible to just stay away from their home as much as possible? Maybe there's a middle ground. Just look at the long-term consequences of staying with them, and if it's going to hurt your success in this program or if it's going to cause horrible damage to your relationship with your fiance, it may not be worth it. One time my counselor said, "When necessity over rides your fear, you will do what you need to do." I've found that to be true for myself most of the time.
Take care,
luvpiggy
It just really depends on the circumstances. If you are in a horribly abusive situation and if your parents are going to destroy the relationship with the mate that God has chosen for you, then over the long term, it is better to move out as soon as possible. However, if there is some type of middle ground and a slower process for you so you can build up the best coping skills and get the most support then that is a good way to go. That's just not always possible in all situations. What does your counselor think about this program? I think your counselor can help you asses how this program fits in with the decision to move out.
As far as the spacey feeling is concerned, that used to be one of my major symptoms, and at it's worst, it is hard to deal with. I found that the depersonalization comes from general stress and anxiety, and also in the situation that you are in which was similar to mine, your parents have been so involved in your life that part of you doesn't know who you are without them. They haven't let you develop your own identity, make your own choices, and trust yourself. It's all about boundaries, and that's why the thought of moving away from them makes you have that symptom. Just know that that's what it is. I do believe in baby steps whenever you can make them, but I understand that sometimes that isn't the best thing, and it's just so hard. However, I can think of two examples in my life where I have looked back and realized that I should have left sooner, but God still worked it out for me. He gives us chances and choices. I know this isn't the spiritual section, but I have found that God gently and lovingly guides you and is never manipulative. He understands that you are a work in progress for the rest of your life. Look to Him, and see if everything lines up for you. Very few things in life are final. Look at all of your options and the worst case scenarios. Is this really an "undoable" situation. However, you don't want to move out and be so overwhelmed by anxiety that you move back with them and are afraid to try again. But even if that happens, I think that the more you do this program and counseling, I doubt that you'll never try again.
I even remember living with my in-law's the last and final time. It ended up being horrible, but it really showed me who they were. My son was showing symptoms of autism, but I didn't know what it was, and they kept saying that I was crazy. My in-laws weren't saying anything to my face at that point, but they called me "crazy" on the day that everything exploded because I pushed it, but I developed horrible depersonalization before that. I think my body was telling me that we were in a horrible situation, and we needed to get away from them. Had we stayed, our son wouldn't have even been diagnosed to get help. I had to get away from them to get him help. It was hard. So, in that case, my depersonalization lessened when I got away from them. It came back later after a lot of trauma and my son's diagnosis, and I hate what I went through, but I didn't have this program, and I hadn't read the books on boundaries. I think you are in a much better position than I was.
When are you getting married? Is it possible to just stay away from their home as much as possible? Maybe there's a middle ground. Just look at the long-term consequences of staying with them, and if it's going to hurt your success in this program or if it's going to cause horrible damage to your relationship with your fiance, it may not be worth it. One time my counselor said, "When necessity over rides your fear, you will do what you need to do." I've found that to be true for myself most of the time.
Take care,
luvpiggy