I've yet to find anything that will work for me...

[Laurence5905]

I've tried everything... Medication, therapy, CBT, books, etc., etc... Still can't seem to stop having panic attacks... I even tried this program before -- bought it back in 1995 on tape. Still have the tapes, too, even though I don't have a working cassette player anymore... (Just bought a new copy of the program on CD -- maybe this time it will work for me? Worth a shot, I suppose... It's only money...)

I always get stuck at the part where I have to go out and force myself to have panic attacks in order to "practice the coping skills." I have a panic attack, and completely forget everything I've supposedly learned, and wind up running back home -- usually at a highly illegal speed... (Luckily I don't venture far from home, so it's only a couple of miles of very high-speed driving... Although I did get a speeding ticket 11 years ago for doing 112 MPH in a 45 MPH zone, trying to get home during a panic attack... Cops were merciful and didn't take me to jail...)

It's been about five years since I've left home alone... Have to get a family member to pick me up if I need to go somewhere, and believe me, I make those trips as rarely as possible, and always with a *lot* of medication on board. I even recently sold my car, because there was no point in paying for a tag/insurance/maintenance on a car that I literally drove less than 50 miles a year...

So I guess my question is this: How does forcing myself to have panic attacks help me? I've had thousands (millions?) of panic attacks over the last 29 years (ever since I was 12 years old) and having them has never helped me get over having them again -- it just leads to more panic attacks and more things I have to avoid in order not to have more panic attacks.

Any tips on how to get past this point where I've always gotten stuck in the past? Because I just don't see it...

L.

[estherbunny]

I read your post and thought, "that was (and to a certain extent, still is) me!" I have a lot to say. I, too have tried almost everything...acupuncture, medications (anti-depressants, none of which worked for me ), therapy, meditation, "toughing it out", vitamins, prayer, etc., etc. So I know how you feel. But, I never gave up. I got the StressCenter.com program, and did it once myself, but felt that I just didn't get it; so, I signed up for the coaching and did it again. That helped somewhat, but I was still having difficulty. Then, I think it was something I read in a post, I got Dr. Liebgold's program, also...I think you can go to www.angelnet.com.... and it was a different way of looking at and dealing with the anxiety than the StressCenter.com program. I think Dr. Liebgold's program "clicked" with me more, but they both say essentially the same things. You have to be able to go into the fearful situations armed with the tools that you need to bring your anxiety down to a manageable level. I still get anxiety. As a matter of fact, I am doing something tomorrow that is anxiety-producing, but I don't avoid the situations now. You do not have to buy a set of CDs from Dr. Liebgold's site...you can buy his book and it is all in there, and I think it is just $14.00. It sounds like I am pushing this, but I'm not. I just want to tell you what helped me. I am still a work in progress. The other thing that made a real difference to me was when I started to accept that this is the way I am. I am anxious and depressed by nature (it is rampant in my family...I believe there is a strong genetic component), and my life circumstances of incest and abuse just added to the anxiety and depression. I would never try to say what would work for anyone else, but one of my suggestions is to take someone with you at first, when you are doing something that you know has caused you extreme anxiety in the past. That person can remind you to do the breathing, etc. that you forget because you go from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye. I also would strongly advise you to get Dr. liebgoild's book....it talks all about this. I wish you well. My heart goes out to you. Let me know how you are doing.

[newrunner]

Yahoo!!!!

I'm about 98% positive that I am the person who posted about Dr. Leibgold's book on here, because it worked for me too!! And I heard about it from a lady who used to post on here too. Her name is Boon, on this site. She lives in CA, and gets to go to support groups run by Dr. Leibgold and his wife.

I also feel for you and found that somehow he explained it in a different way and gave you something positive to do when you feel crappy and it's like it switched my brain over and I'm not as prone to go down the same old anxiety rut path.

I second what esterbunny said. She sounds very confident and together, yet realistic.
God speed to you. Keep in touch.

[Laurence5905]

I bought a copy of Dr. Leibgold's book, but haven't had a chance to read it yet... I also received my copy of StressCenter.com's newest program earlier this week -- started on session 1... At least the recordings appear to be different than what was on the tapes back in '95 when I first went through StressCenter.com's program... So they do update them from time-to-time, which is good.

I just don't problem-solve in a way that I think is compatible with what this program wants me to do... I'm a computer programmer, and I solve any problem pretty much the same way as I do when I'm trying to de-bug a program. I study the problem, working through it over and over, when suddenly something will "click" in my head, then *BOOM* I have the solution. Even if I can't get the solution immediately, and I have to step away from it for awhile, it's like my subconscious keeps working on it, and the next time I look at it, the solution is immediately apparent to me. That just doesn't work with anxiety and panic attacks... I simply cannot see the steps to get from here to there...

I mean, I do know the steps that the program wants me to take, sure... I just can't see myself able to complete them... I get to the point where I'm supposed to go out and "practice" these "coping skills" that I've supposedly learned, but then they just flat don't work. I'm supposed to be able to control my thoughts, but I've never once been able to do that. Not once have I been able to stop a panic attack by changing my thoughts. Ever.

And the whole "practicing" thing -- geez, I'd rather cut off my arms with a band-saw than force myself to have panic attacks so I can "practice" these coping skills that I've supposedly learned (but apparently didn't). I just get completely stuck at that point -- whether it's with a book or StressCenter.com's program or a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist, or a psychiatrist, I just can't make myself deliberately have panic attacks. They say I need to "experience" my panic attacks and realize they're not going to kill me, and then I'll get over them. Yeah... I've had panic attacks for nearly 30 years now, and I guess that if they were going to kill me, I'd be dead by now -- logically I know this. When the panic attack is actually happening, logic and reason simply don't exist. There is no way I can access any coping skills or logical thought or anything of that nature when I'm in the middle of a panic attack... So every time I have a panic attack, my world gets a little smaller -- more stuff I have to avoid in order not to have panic attacks in the future. (And yes, I realize the "more stuff I have to avoid" line is exactly what I'm not supposed to think, but it's exactly what I can't control -- it races thru my head before I can stop it.)

Anyway... I'll give this program another try. Back in '95 when I first bought it, they didn't have this forum, or personal coaching, or any way to ask questions of any kind -- you just got what was on the tapes and that was it. So maybe that'll help this time through... Hopefully.

L.

[tina martin]

Hi L. Sometimes it is a matter of finding what works for us. There have been numerous testimonials for the program so we know it can be effective. To me it is one component of several. I am a believer in traditional, Freudian psychotherapy which means gaining insight into your beginnings. This can be done in talk therapy with a shrink and on your own: exploring, thinking, reading, learning. There are likely to be root causes for anxiety and panic.

CBT can then help to correct thinking and recondition a weak self. In a sense you want to reprogram your brain, your psyche, maybe even your soul. Then there are meds. It is not a bad idea to have something in reserve as a backup to help you get past a bad moment and then try on your own again. In addition, there is exercise, a healthy diet, and meditation.

All of it requires effort, hard work, dedication, and a strong desire to get better. Support from others helps, no doubt about it. But the hard work is yours to do. It can actually be an interesting, exciting adventure. I've been at it for years and will never be "done." There are few quick fixes in life, but the pursuit of the end is not bad either. Hope this helps some to get you started. Keep us informed. Best to you.

[SoWhatif]

Laurence, Us humans can not be fixed with a few key strokes. With all due respect please research and understand what Tina just shared with you. In my career of diagnostics there is on thing that never changes and that is the basics. They are foundatitional, and especially true for us. Using the alphabet as a flow chart one starts with,A and grow thru Z. If any of the steps "letters" are skipped or damaged it affects all the next steps as to how things work. There IS a reason for the attacks. Your resistance depends on alot as Tina mentioned. Are you just overwhelmed with everything?

[Paisleegreen]

When Lucinda talks about the panic attacks, she sometimes refers to anxiety attacks or simply having anxiety, not the full blown panic attack, which lasts 15 minutes, what helped me was realizing that I was feeling the "symptoms" of anxiety...so the idea is to continue what you are planning on doing...and the fear or anxiety should subside or your thinking will and it will prevent the anxiety from becoming a full blown panic attack. I also had changed my diet to more protein, stayed away from sweets, and walked or got some type of aerobic exercise. Listened to the CDs constantly and was on StressCenter.com everyday. Paislee

[estherbunny]

I hope that you have had a chance to read the Dr. Liebgold book. I understand very well what you say about not learning anything when you have a panic attack, except how to be more afraid. And then your world shrinks more, as you start to avoid more things. All that is addressed in the book, more clearly, I think, than the StressCenter.com program. I am not knocking the StressCenter.com program. It was a great foundation for me, and I don't know how I would have done so far, if I had not had that start. But Dr. Liebgold emphasizes that one does not learn anything from having high levels of fear, except failure. He suggests that you retreat, relax and recover by going down to a lower level of fear ( which you will learn to do), and THEN go back into the feared situation. He gives you (lays out) the tools that you need to bring down those levels of fear. The first is to say STOP, do the breathing and then use the other tools to bring down the level of fear. He emphasizes that you can never stop the scary thoughts, but when you have one (and you have to start recognizing them when you do ), you must immediately take those important steps. And I also want to emphasize (as he does, too, in the book), that you will always have scary thoughts.....we have to learn how to react to them differtly than we have in the past. I am beginning to accept that I will ALWAYS be anxious and depressed. I am genetically wired that way. But, I CAN change how I react to all the scary thoughts... and I must do that if I want to turn things around for myself. I found Dr. Liebgold's methods more pertinent to me, and from what you have written on these posts, you may, too. It is more of a step-by-step method, which might appeal to "computer" you. But, I also have to say that you have to constantly practice, practice, practice! And, I think, you cannot expect the anxiety to just magically disappear one day. Tomorrow, I am going to a hospital. I am going to be with my best friend who is having a CAT scan and MRI of her brain, and some blood work. Medical problems and hospitals are big anxiety-producing situations for me, but I need to not avoid, and I want to be there for my friend who I love very much. I bring this up to say that we all face challenges, and I have to deal with my anticipatory anxiety in regard to this, but I need to do it and practice the skills and use the tools that I have been taught. And the last thing I want to say for now is what so many people have said....if I can do it, you can do it, because, believe me, I don't have any special powers or magic wand....I just consistently do the work. Good luck. Let me know what you think of the book, and let us all know how you are doing. P.S. Expect setbacks....they will come. But you can not have a setback if you haven't already made progress.