Hello All,
Here is my story. I have had anxiety for 8 years and have been on Zoloft and Valium ever since. I was very bad, couldn't even leave the house or even go to mail box, thought I would never get better. This was very hard with a newborn at home. The medicine helped a bit but not the way I wanted, in 2003 I had my second child and realized I needed more help so I could be a good mom. I completed the program and it changed my life. I think I had every symptom they listed and then some. I still have some fears I'm still working on, like shopping I don't like being in stores or anywhere too closed in. I have worked hard on all my fears and have been so proud of how far I have come. I even took a 3 hours road trip for a weekend alone last weekend. After not driving for years I was so proud of myself, I loved that feeling of freedom!!!
I have had some new problems combined with a couple old ones, my BP has been going up and rapid pulse again. My husband was good when I was sick but now that Im better things have gotten bad, he keeps doing everything he can to make me dependant on him again. I understand him changing, hes was used to me needing him, but he does things to upset me and things that cause anxiety, we have talked about this a lot but he wont stop and just wants to argue all the time. When I am getting ready to go some where he upsets me so I cant go. I have changed my diet to improve my health, he brings me soda and junk food knowing I am avoiding it. He puts me down and he always says, "are you sure you can do that alone." He likes me when I need him to do everything for me. He didn't even want me to work. He likes keeping me stuck at home and has done everything he can to keep me here. My doctor keeps telling me I need to get a divorce because he is really causing me health problems, when this all started that's when my BP and pulse started, along with headaches. I know my doctor has a point when he tells me this is not good for me or the kids, but Im still afraid of being alone. What if Id get sick again? Or regret it after? I also feel bad because he was there for me while I was sick.
I am starting the program over again to reduce the stress from all this going on, plus I am getting off my Zoloft now and thought this would help me fight off any feelings that come back. My doctor is keeping me on the Valium as needed to help as well.
Should I listen to my doctor and do what is best for my health or stay and try to deal with him? Im so confused and need some advice.
Well that's my story, good luck all
Bekah~
I need some advice!!! :(
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Guest
Wow that is tough. But for a doctor to say you should get a divorce, that sounds pretty out there.
Would your husband be willing to go through marital counseling with you. And what do *you* want, what do you feel is best for your family?
It kind of sounds like he needs you more than you need him. Also it sounds like you are allowing him to push your buttons.
You know, I don't believe in divorce unless there is adultery or a life threatening situation going on, but you said you were worried about being able to handle being alone. I just want to assure you that if there was a situation where you ended up alone, you would do just fine. Right now you have your husband there so you are able to be held back by your anxiety but being on your own would force you to be independent. Now, I'm not suggesting divorce mind you, just saying that you would be fine and independent if you did end up alone.
Would your husband be willing to go through marital counseling with you. And what do *you* want, what do you feel is best for your family?
It kind of sounds like he needs you more than you need him. Also it sounds like you are allowing him to push your buttons.
You know, I don't believe in divorce unless there is adultery or a life threatening situation going on, but you said you were worried about being able to handle being alone. I just want to assure you that if there was a situation where you ended up alone, you would do just fine. Right now you have your husband there so you are able to be held back by your anxiety but being on your own would force you to be independent. Now, I'm not suggesting divorce mind you, just saying that you would be fine and independent if you did end up alone.
My doctor takes time to listen to everything in my life (which is rare to find a doctor to take time nowdays.) He knows what's going on at home. He has tried giving me advice on fixing things and offered to suggest a marriage counselor for us. My husband refused, he doesn't believe in that. So after four years of things getting worse, my doctor finally said he thinks its time to let go.
Like I said I am scared of being alone, but I am starting to think it would be better for all of us. The kids know things are strained with me and their dad they see it, even at 5 and 8. I don't think he is happy either. I know I'm not we have not been "together" in over a year.. He sleeps on the couch mostly.
As for him needing me, you may be right. I was his first real girlfriend and I have been married to him for almost 11 years, before that he let his mom run his life and still does to a point. I think he is more afraid of being alone than me.
I do let him push my buttons, I know I shouldn't but I have never been able to stand up to him. I have gotten good at standing up to others, but when it comes to him I don't. When I try he throws it in my face that he stayed with me when I was really sick.
Like I said I am scared of being alone, but I am starting to think it would be better for all of us. The kids know things are strained with me and their dad they see it, even at 5 and 8. I don't think he is happy either. I know I'm not we have not been "together" in over a year.. He sleeps on the couch mostly.
As for him needing me, you may be right. I was his first real girlfriend and I have been married to him for almost 11 years, before that he let his mom run his life and still does to a point. I think he is more afraid of being alone than me.
I do let him push my buttons, I know I shouldn't but I have never been able to stand up to him. I have gotten good at standing up to others, but when it comes to him I don't. When I try he throws it in my face that he stayed with me when I was really sick.
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Guest
hi bek. It seems like you're husband is definitly not good for you and your recovery. I'm in the process of recovering and I felt like my boyfriend(he's the one who surprised me this program) was actually happy with me being dependent o him. It seemed that everytime something had to be done he'd do it, and I'd say something like "let me try" and he'd say something negative that made me think I couldn't. He was really hurting myself esteem..I let him though. But I wrote him a long letter, because I'm usually better at writing than talking and I told him everything. He wasn't very happy and we didn't talk much for a couple days and let things cool off. we eventually talked and worked through everything and now we are very happy. Whenever I feel like maybe I'm becoming dependent on him again, I take a step back and think about it all think of what I could do that would make it so I was being independent. Relationships are hard...I've never been married, or with anyone for as long as you've been with your husband...but sometimes you just have to change and let things go. I know you'll be fine on your own. If you get sick again, you know you'll recover...you have the tools...and you'll be fine. Just think, maybe you'd be even happier if you were alone. Only you can make the decision. Only you know what you want though. Don't let anyone tell you what to do.
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Guest
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Guest
Hi,
First of all, congratulations on how well you've done with the program:)! I've improved dramatically, but I'm still stuck with the driving. I can't imagine going on a 3 hour road trip by myself, and that's so encouraging to hear that you did that and enjoyed it:)!
I'm sorry for the very difficult circumstances you are facing in your marriage. I don't know that any of us on here can tell you whether or not to get a divorce. In most cases, it is usually a last resort, but when your life is threatened by your marriage, including abuse, there are those cases after counseling, etc. has been tried. You tried to get him to go counseling, and he didn't bite, and if a doctor is telling you your health is at risk, that matters depending on the expertise of your doctor. I would still seek out at least a second expert opinion. For example, even if your husband won't go to counseling, I think a counselor could help you with options if you share with them the physician's opinion.
Again, I'm not really in the position to tell you whether or not to get a divorce, but I do want to point out something that I don't think you have to factor into your decision. I don't think you should let guilt or fear be your motivators for staying in the marriage. When you say that you don't want to divorce him because he was there for you when you were sick, I think that is guilt talking. A few years ago, I had a friendship that I later found out was "co-dependent". I didn't know much about it before hand, only thinking that co-dependency applied to people who did drugs and alcohol, but co-dependency can occur in relationships without those factors present. It is simply a relationship of inequality where one person is the caregiver/overgiver/helper and one person is the needy person for whatever reason, and the motivations for this relationship are manipulation and control. In this relationship, the caregiver can have bad motivations for helping as a means of controlling the needy person, or the needy person can have bad motivations as a means of controlling the caregiver, or both can be going on at the same time.
In my relationship, the helpful friend was actually giving to me with very wrong motivations. This friend was graciously there for me when I was at my worst with anxiety and also helped me tremendously with my son who has severe autism. I was sure she was from God, and even now, I can't help but be thankful for the good times I had with her. However, when I got better with my anxiety and/or had the opportunity to have other friendships, she started to act jealous and strange, and she started playing a lot of games and acting horribly passive aggressive. At one point, my son's life was actually in danger, and she expected me to choose her over my son. She said, "I know you have family responsibilities, but it just hurts that you aren't there for me after all I've done for you." Keep in mind that my "family responsibilities" include keeping a child with severe autism from possibly dying at times, and please keep in mind that although I couldn't do the things for her she had done for me, I had been there for her many times.
I guess my point is that there are people who are co-dependent helpers who are helping for their own selfish motives. They like the power and control it gives them. Their self-esteem is threatened when the needy person has the freedom to come and go as they please. If you figure out what's really going on, they are hoping that the guilt that you feel over all the "help" that they have given you will keep you under their control. They see the help they gave you as leverage. I have had this happen to me so many times, that I'm amazed that I ever accept a gift from anyone. I am a lot more wary of people who come into my life laying it on thick with gifts and giving and flattery. I have really firm boundaries, and I also do a lot of self-examination before I give gifts to others or help. I make sure that I am expecting nothing in return. A "Thank you" is nice, but that's all I expect, but so many people give to get, and it's really sad. It also gives them the appearance to others of being a "martyr". That friend can say, "I did this, this, and this for her, and the one time I needed her she wasn't there for me." This friend started the friendship as being an over giver. She knew that I wasn't in the position to giver her back in the same ways or as much, and then in the end she looks like the one who was wronged.
After I explained to the friend how I discovered our relationship was co-dependent, she still tried to make me feel guilty by thinking the only thing that needed to change in the relationship was that she was an "over giver". This made it look like she was just this generous person, instead of her looking at her bad motivations for giving and how she expected much in return for giving. I also want to point out that the needy person can also be the one with the wrong motivations. The needy person can sabotage his or her own recovery, and "milk it for all it's worth" to keep the person in the caregiving position. I've had that happen too. How do you know when that is happening? Well, you can see that you and I weren't the controller and manipulator because we both took steps to get better. I thought that when I got better that I would be able to do even more fun things with my friend and improving the friendship, and I never imagined that she wanted me sick because she had been helping me:(. If I hadn't gotten better, and my friend would have decided that she had helped me enough, but that I was taking up too much of her time, and I would have been like, "You aren't there for me!" etc., then I would have been the one in the wrong. There were several communications with her when she would say, "I can't be there for you like I was in the past", and I had already moved on and expected less from her, and wasn't asking her to be there the same way. My husband and I would just shake our heads at that. At least I had my husband to witness what was going on, and he could tell me that I wasn't the one controlling her. Since I had been controlled in the past by my "needy" abusive family members, I would never have wanted to do that to someone. I just got into a position with my son and his autism and anxiety where I needed help. Someone swooped in and offered help without my asking, and I was thankful and accepted the help. I didn't have the energy to question it. It's hard not to feel infuriated sometimes by what was really going on though. When the friendship ended, I thought I would go backwards with my anxiety, but I ACTUALLY GOT BETTER:)!
I know this isn't the religious section, but it's my personal belief that God was showing me that He was the one that was healing me, and He was showing me that the work I had been putting into this program and therapy were what were responsible for my healing. I think the friend was just so sure that I wouldn't be able to make it without her that she started acting the way she did, and she was really expecting me to beg her to stay in my life, etc. That's just not a healthy friendship.
So, like I said, I'm not in a position to tell you to end your marriage, but I am telling you not to get tripped up by guilt because your husband supposedly gave you so much when you were sick. He liked you sick, and people who don't want you well are very toxic. I run from those people now, but I can't imagine what I would do if that were my spouse, so I can't imagine how hard this has got to be for you.
Secondly, you talk about the fear, and in certain situations fear of leaving a marriage is valid. I do view it as a sacred life-long commitment that should only be ended in life threatening circumstances. That does include emotional abuse too, if steps have been taken through counseling and boundaries have been set, and the other person doesn't comply. At that point, the abuser is making the decision to end the marriage because they are not willing to take steps to get help. However, the fear of being independent and making it on your own isn't a good motivation for staying in a marriage. It's a difficult situation.
Basically, love should be the basis of your decision. Letting someone abuse you emotionally and/or physically isn't really love. They need to be faced with the consequences of their actions. I would at least bring up the possible consequences to your husband before you just filed for divorce. I would tell him that the doctor is telling you that your health is at risk and that he's got to go to counseling so you won't have to consider divorce as the only option. If you feel safe physically, I would at least give him the ultimatum and chance to get help.
A book that helped me regarding co-dependency was "Please Don't Say You Need Me." I think the author also has a book about women making smart decisions. I haven't read it, but I did read an excerpt that seemed pretty good. Also, Dr. Henry Cloud's "Boundaries" and "Changes that Heal" are really good books that could help. I pretty much recommend them to everyone:).
Take care,
luvpiggy
First of all, congratulations on how well you've done with the program:)! I've improved dramatically, but I'm still stuck with the driving. I can't imagine going on a 3 hour road trip by myself, and that's so encouraging to hear that you did that and enjoyed it:)!
I'm sorry for the very difficult circumstances you are facing in your marriage. I don't know that any of us on here can tell you whether or not to get a divorce. In most cases, it is usually a last resort, but when your life is threatened by your marriage, including abuse, there are those cases after counseling, etc. has been tried. You tried to get him to go counseling, and he didn't bite, and if a doctor is telling you your health is at risk, that matters depending on the expertise of your doctor. I would still seek out at least a second expert opinion. For example, even if your husband won't go to counseling, I think a counselor could help you with options if you share with them the physician's opinion.
Again, I'm not really in the position to tell you whether or not to get a divorce, but I do want to point out something that I don't think you have to factor into your decision. I don't think you should let guilt or fear be your motivators for staying in the marriage. When you say that you don't want to divorce him because he was there for you when you were sick, I think that is guilt talking. A few years ago, I had a friendship that I later found out was "co-dependent". I didn't know much about it before hand, only thinking that co-dependency applied to people who did drugs and alcohol, but co-dependency can occur in relationships without those factors present. It is simply a relationship of inequality where one person is the caregiver/overgiver/helper and one person is the needy person for whatever reason, and the motivations for this relationship are manipulation and control. In this relationship, the caregiver can have bad motivations for helping as a means of controlling the needy person, or the needy person can have bad motivations as a means of controlling the caregiver, or both can be going on at the same time.
In my relationship, the helpful friend was actually giving to me with very wrong motivations. This friend was graciously there for me when I was at my worst with anxiety and also helped me tremendously with my son who has severe autism. I was sure she was from God, and even now, I can't help but be thankful for the good times I had with her. However, when I got better with my anxiety and/or had the opportunity to have other friendships, she started to act jealous and strange, and she started playing a lot of games and acting horribly passive aggressive. At one point, my son's life was actually in danger, and she expected me to choose her over my son. She said, "I know you have family responsibilities, but it just hurts that you aren't there for me after all I've done for you." Keep in mind that my "family responsibilities" include keeping a child with severe autism from possibly dying at times, and please keep in mind that although I couldn't do the things for her she had done for me, I had been there for her many times.
I guess my point is that there are people who are co-dependent helpers who are helping for their own selfish motives. They like the power and control it gives them. Their self-esteem is threatened when the needy person has the freedom to come and go as they please. If you figure out what's really going on, they are hoping that the guilt that you feel over all the "help" that they have given you will keep you under their control. They see the help they gave you as leverage. I have had this happen to me so many times, that I'm amazed that I ever accept a gift from anyone. I am a lot more wary of people who come into my life laying it on thick with gifts and giving and flattery. I have really firm boundaries, and I also do a lot of self-examination before I give gifts to others or help. I make sure that I am expecting nothing in return. A "Thank you" is nice, but that's all I expect, but so many people give to get, and it's really sad. It also gives them the appearance to others of being a "martyr". That friend can say, "I did this, this, and this for her, and the one time I needed her she wasn't there for me." This friend started the friendship as being an over giver. She knew that I wasn't in the position to giver her back in the same ways or as much, and then in the end she looks like the one who was wronged.
After I explained to the friend how I discovered our relationship was co-dependent, she still tried to make me feel guilty by thinking the only thing that needed to change in the relationship was that she was an "over giver". This made it look like she was just this generous person, instead of her looking at her bad motivations for giving and how she expected much in return for giving. I also want to point out that the needy person can also be the one with the wrong motivations. The needy person can sabotage his or her own recovery, and "milk it for all it's worth" to keep the person in the caregiving position. I've had that happen too. How do you know when that is happening? Well, you can see that you and I weren't the controller and manipulator because we both took steps to get better. I thought that when I got better that I would be able to do even more fun things with my friend and improving the friendship, and I never imagined that she wanted me sick because she had been helping me:(. If I hadn't gotten better, and my friend would have decided that she had helped me enough, but that I was taking up too much of her time, and I would have been like, "You aren't there for me!" etc., then I would have been the one in the wrong. There were several communications with her when she would say, "I can't be there for you like I was in the past", and I had already moved on and expected less from her, and wasn't asking her to be there the same way. My husband and I would just shake our heads at that. At least I had my husband to witness what was going on, and he could tell me that I wasn't the one controlling her. Since I had been controlled in the past by my "needy" abusive family members, I would never have wanted to do that to someone. I just got into a position with my son and his autism and anxiety where I needed help. Someone swooped in and offered help without my asking, and I was thankful and accepted the help. I didn't have the energy to question it. It's hard not to feel infuriated sometimes by what was really going on though. When the friendship ended, I thought I would go backwards with my anxiety, but I ACTUALLY GOT BETTER:)!
I know this isn't the religious section, but it's my personal belief that God was showing me that He was the one that was healing me, and He was showing me that the work I had been putting into this program and therapy were what were responsible for my healing. I think the friend was just so sure that I wouldn't be able to make it without her that she started acting the way she did, and she was really expecting me to beg her to stay in my life, etc. That's just not a healthy friendship.
So, like I said, I'm not in a position to tell you to end your marriage, but I am telling you not to get tripped up by guilt because your husband supposedly gave you so much when you were sick. He liked you sick, and people who don't want you well are very toxic. I run from those people now, but I can't imagine what I would do if that were my spouse, so I can't imagine how hard this has got to be for you.
Secondly, you talk about the fear, and in certain situations fear of leaving a marriage is valid. I do view it as a sacred life-long commitment that should only be ended in life threatening circumstances. That does include emotional abuse too, if steps have been taken through counseling and boundaries have been set, and the other person doesn't comply. At that point, the abuser is making the decision to end the marriage because they are not willing to take steps to get help. However, the fear of being independent and making it on your own isn't a good motivation for staying in a marriage. It's a difficult situation.
Basically, love should be the basis of your decision. Letting someone abuse you emotionally and/or physically isn't really love. They need to be faced with the consequences of their actions. I would at least bring up the possible consequences to your husband before you just filed for divorce. I would tell him that the doctor is telling you that your health is at risk and that he's got to go to counseling so you won't have to consider divorce as the only option. If you feel safe physically, I would at least give him the ultimatum and chance to get help.
A book that helped me regarding co-dependency was "Please Don't Say You Need Me." I think the author also has a book about women making smart decisions. I haven't read it, but I did read an excerpt that seemed pretty good. Also, Dr. Henry Cloud's "Boundaries" and "Changes that Heal" are really good books that could help. I pretty much recommend them to everyone:).
Take care,
luvpiggy
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Guest
Thank you so much for your kind words and sharing your story with me. You said some things that really woke me up to things again. I know I shouldnt let anyone do this to me, negative people being around is so hurtful to getting better. I have made sure not to have people like that in my life, I just never imagined my husband would turn out to be one of those people.
I have had counseling myself, she has worked with me the last five years. We have talked for the last three of them on ways to get my husband to understand what is wrong in our relationship and help him to understand the changes in me since I have gotten better. He wont sit and talk about this stuff with me, he just gets upset and leaves the room. Its not just me he has changed with its the children too. Its like he has distanced himself from them as well.
Like you I believe marriage is a sacred life-long commitment, but also know it takes both of us to make that work. I dont like to quit on things but I think in this case there is not much more I can do, without any help from him. When I wrote this I think I knew in my heart what I should do but just needed the push.
As for the driving, that is a challenge. I started with very short rides, 5 mins from home or so. I was always tense though. After a while it got a bit easier so I increased the distance. I started driving more around town and doing things alone. I took one other trip alone, about 3 hours as well but I was very anxious when I did that. This time was so different, I think I was glad to be getting away from here for a few days where I didnt have to get put down. I really enjoyed the drive, even the interstate where I normally slow way down and freak out, this time I was going the speed limit and smiling while doing it.. The trip home was good too, I knew my boys were waiting on me. Take your time with it, it took me years to do. I know you can though!! Keep me posted on how your doing with it!
I will also check those books out.
Thank you for your help,
Bekah~
I have had counseling myself, she has worked with me the last five years. We have talked for the last three of them on ways to get my husband to understand what is wrong in our relationship and help him to understand the changes in me since I have gotten better. He wont sit and talk about this stuff with me, he just gets upset and leaves the room. Its not just me he has changed with its the children too. Its like he has distanced himself from them as well.
Like you I believe marriage is a sacred life-long commitment, but also know it takes both of us to make that work. I dont like to quit on things but I think in this case there is not much more I can do, without any help from him. When I wrote this I think I knew in my heart what I should do but just needed the push.
As for the driving, that is a challenge. I started with very short rides, 5 mins from home or so. I was always tense though. After a while it got a bit easier so I increased the distance. I started driving more around town and doing things alone. I took one other trip alone, about 3 hours as well but I was very anxious when I did that. This time was so different, I think I was glad to be getting away from here for a few days where I didnt have to get put down. I really enjoyed the drive, even the interstate where I normally slow way down and freak out, this time I was going the speed limit and smiling while doing it.. The trip home was good too, I knew my boys were waiting on me. Take your time with it, it took me years to do. I know you can though!! Keep me posted on how your doing with it!
I will also check those books out.
Thank you for your help,
Bekah~