I am sitting here, just smiling. Thank you, Liz, I very much appreciate your acceptance. Sometimes I have thought that there is some connector in the brain designated "faith" that is either connected or not or connected in varying degrees. For me, it seems, it was a problem area from the time I was quite young. It took many, many years to stand up and say, "This is where I stand." And not be afraid to do so.
It is so good for you to find comfort in the Bible, in the section you quote, because I would imagine that some people were not likely to be as accepting of your difference. Nor is the Bible so accepting of gay people, as far as I know. Society is evolving and changing in countless ways, many of them all for the good. It is the understanding, recognition, and celebration of differences that will broaden us to include each of us in the humanity we are all a part of.
I'm so happy you bumped up this thread as cuttingirl states. It will help us to expand, to grow, to become better people, less anxious, less depressed, less stressed. It is so wonderfully liberating to be true to ourself.
could I be gay or bi, please help, what do you think
You are so sweet, thanks, Tina. The Bible speaks against homosexuality as well as sexual immorality. I'm not gay, though if I had sex with a woman as Liz, would that be a lesbian act? I feel blessed that I am spiritual enough to enjoy both my male and female self. You made a good point in a post where you said, "There are also significant variations in sexual drive" and you are absolutely right. Sex doesn't drive my day and am only attracted to women. I can't imagine having sex with a guy, most are quite disgusting in my opinion.
The biggest problem with Christianity and why it turns many off, is the "I'm right and you're wrong attitude." Most are so ignorant they make the dumbest comments.
Transgendered is a very broad term, I only know my situation. Most Christians will condemn crossdressing based on Deuterotomy 22:5 that says "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this." They have no clue, for you must understand the context it was written. In those days, men and women would dress in the other genders's clothing to commit heterosexual adultery. Some men would dress in women's garments to avoid militarty service. Also, pagans were involved in idolatrous worship, or the worship of idols, where they put their idol in the place of God, which is breaking the first commandment. Men wore the colorful dress of women while they presented themselves before the Star of Venus, and women wore men's armor when presenting themselves before the Star of Mars.
For Christians to condemn crossdressing is absurd not only by this explanation but also, if they accept Christ, they have to accept the new covenant made by the crucifixion of Christ, as we now live in a theology of grace and mercy. And if crossdressing is an abomination to God, what's with all the women wearing jeans and a flannel shirt? If they want to base actions on the Old Testament, they should offer burnt sacrifices for their sins (all explained in Leviticus) and put every adulterer to death - wouldn't leave many in America left, would it?
If I feel comfortable praying while being Liz, don't you think I have come to have some knowledge of what God's will is for me? I don't believe it has anything to do with how I appear to others, He could care less how I dress, but that I accept others as Christ accepted me and be of service to others.
God is both male and female - that's biblical "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Is this referring to the creation of man and woman? No. A woman had not yet been created. This occurred later.
As you can see, I am not of this world. I am a citizen of heaven, a child of God, who loves me dearly. I am here for only a short period of time and, in my belief, will spend eternity with God in heaven.
I'm sure I've bored you to death by now, so I will close. Just remember, if anyone tells you they have it all figured out, RUN! God said in Isaiah 55:9, "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." So how could anyone have it figured out? Certainly not Joel Osteen. Oops, I'm not suppose to judge!
Bless you, Tina
Liz
The biggest problem with Christianity and why it turns many off, is the "I'm right and you're wrong attitude." Most are so ignorant they make the dumbest comments.
Transgendered is a very broad term, I only know my situation. Most Christians will condemn crossdressing based on Deuterotomy 22:5 that says "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this." They have no clue, for you must understand the context it was written. In those days, men and women would dress in the other genders's clothing to commit heterosexual adultery. Some men would dress in women's garments to avoid militarty service. Also, pagans were involved in idolatrous worship, or the worship of idols, where they put their idol in the place of God, which is breaking the first commandment. Men wore the colorful dress of women while they presented themselves before the Star of Venus, and women wore men's armor when presenting themselves before the Star of Mars.
For Christians to condemn crossdressing is absurd not only by this explanation but also, if they accept Christ, they have to accept the new covenant made by the crucifixion of Christ, as we now live in a theology of grace and mercy. And if crossdressing is an abomination to God, what's with all the women wearing jeans and a flannel shirt? If they want to base actions on the Old Testament, they should offer burnt sacrifices for their sins (all explained in Leviticus) and put every adulterer to death - wouldn't leave many in America left, would it?
If I feel comfortable praying while being Liz, don't you think I have come to have some knowledge of what God's will is for me? I don't believe it has anything to do with how I appear to others, He could care less how I dress, but that I accept others as Christ accepted me and be of service to others.
God is both male and female - that's biblical "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Is this referring to the creation of man and woman? No. A woman had not yet been created. This occurred later.
As you can see, I am not of this world. I am a citizen of heaven, a child of God, who loves me dearly. I am here for only a short period of time and, in my belief, will spend eternity with God in heaven.
I'm sure I've bored you to death by now, so I will close. Just remember, if anyone tells you they have it all figured out, RUN! God said in Isaiah 55:9, "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." So how could anyone have it figured out? Certainly not Joel Osteen. Oops, I'm not suppose to judge!
Bless you, Tina
Liz
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tina martin
- Posts: 792
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:24 pm
No, you are not boring me at all. I'm just worried about posting too much. If I gain entry into heaven it is only because you took me with you. Alone, I'd get the door slammed in my face. You sure know God from the Old and New Testament. Excellent case you make on all points.
Really, what can one say about the Old Testament they tried to teach me? I have a group picture in religious school (only girls) where I appear ready to burst into tears. I was only about 7 or 8. The New Testament is much different with its magical concept of love. Still, it does not necessarily extend to gays and transgenders. As to Joel Osteen and others like him, what can one say? Bewildering.
Speaking to my "authority" today, I mentioned you to her. She contends that if you are attracted to women, you probably are gay. Whatever you are, however you dress, you are brilliant and I am so delighted to have met you.
Really, what can one say about the Old Testament they tried to teach me? I have a group picture in religious school (only girls) where I appear ready to burst into tears. I was only about 7 or 8. The New Testament is much different with its magical concept of love. Still, it does not necessarily extend to gays and transgenders. As to Joel Osteen and others like him, what can one say? Bewildering.
Speaking to my "authority" today, I mentioned you to her. She contends that if you are attracted to women, you probably are gay. Whatever you are, however you dress, you are brilliant and I am so delighted to have met you.
Don't think you can post too much, people can read what they choose. You can always email me direct at liz.foxx@yahoo.com.
Your compliments are very kind and they flatter me. Not sure what your "authority" means, let me make it clear - I dress as I wish, spend maybe 60% as Liz and 40 in my male personna. Guess I'm just a spiritual being in a physical world.
Sorry, but you can't get to heaven on my coattails. You can't get to heaven by works, only by faith. By grace and mercy, God will let you in. Not even Mother Teresa got to heaven based on her works. Looking at your profile, I guess you're in my age range- I'm 56. So you know Led Zepplin's Stairway to Heaven. I believe we build that stairway with our works, for "faith without works is dead", but it will never be high enough to just walk into heaven. We will always need to reach out and God will pull us in. There is no one righteous, no not one (Romans 3:10), for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God (Romans 3:23).
Why wouldn't God's love be extended to gays and transgenders? God is Love. He created each and everyone of us. Is a gay or transgendered person's sins greater than that of the average person? What about the child molester? The rapist? The guy who cheats on his wife? The kid who steals a sandwich at the grocery store? The business exec who pads his expense report? Somewhere in the Bible it says if you've committed one sin, you've comitted them all - I'll look it up. Sin is sin, and I think I proved that being transgendered is not a sin. I am a sinner, but not in the way I dress. Let me emphasize my point - WE ARE ALL SINNERS!
I'm delighted to meet you as well, no one can have too many friends.
Where do you live in Colorado? My sister is a dentist in a Denver suburb.
As you struggle with the existence of God, I'd recommend two books. 90 Minutes in Heaven and 23 minutes in Hell. Both authors claim an experience that will blow you away. If you read them, let me know what you think.
Liz
Your compliments are very kind and they flatter me. Not sure what your "authority" means, let me make it clear - I dress as I wish, spend maybe 60% as Liz and 40 in my male personna. Guess I'm just a spiritual being in a physical world.
Sorry, but you can't get to heaven on my coattails. You can't get to heaven by works, only by faith. By grace and mercy, God will let you in. Not even Mother Teresa got to heaven based on her works. Looking at your profile, I guess you're in my age range- I'm 56. So you know Led Zepplin's Stairway to Heaven. I believe we build that stairway with our works, for "faith without works is dead", but it will never be high enough to just walk into heaven. We will always need to reach out and God will pull us in. There is no one righteous, no not one (Romans 3:10), for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God (Romans 3:23).
Why wouldn't God's love be extended to gays and transgenders? God is Love. He created each and everyone of us. Is a gay or transgendered person's sins greater than that of the average person? What about the child molester? The rapist? The guy who cheats on his wife? The kid who steals a sandwich at the grocery store? The business exec who pads his expense report? Somewhere in the Bible it says if you've committed one sin, you've comitted them all - I'll look it up. Sin is sin, and I think I proved that being transgendered is not a sin. I am a sinner, but not in the way I dress. Let me emphasize my point - WE ARE ALL SINNERS!
I'm delighted to meet you as well, no one can have too many friends.
Where do you live in Colorado? My sister is a dentist in a Denver suburb.
As you struggle with the existence of God, I'd recommend two books. 90 Minutes in Heaven and 23 minutes in Hell. Both authors claim an experience that will blow you away. If you read them, let me know what you think.
Liz
Last edited by Liz* on Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CuttinGirl -
I read your post and I wish I had seen it sooner. I'm glad it was bumped up so I could respond. Below is a bit of my story and I make no claim that what is true for me is true for you. I just hope it gives you some comfort.
Like you, I've always had attraction to the same sex, the only difference being that I'm male. However, I never have been attracted to the opposite sex, at least in terms of pure sexuality. The first time I kissed girl in high school I was both terrified and disgusted. I broke off the relationship the next day and never explained to the poor girl why.
However, I never wanted to be gay. I always thought I would have a family, children, the American dream and being gay was not part of it. So I fooled myself into thinking that I was straight. I told myself that my fears of being gay were just more of my outlandish anxieties and like them my fear of my sexuality would never amount to anything. This was the one time I was dead wrong.
Ultimately, I met and fell in love with a wonderful woman when I started college. My love was true and deep, but there was no sexual attraction. We eventually married and stayed together as man and wife for over six years. But it was clear that I had trouble in the bedroom. While we were always affectionate, we rarely were sexually active. If I had to guess, I would say in our six years of marriage we had sex less than a dozen times, if that. And they were always traumatic experiences for me. We never experimented before marriage so we were both virgins. Looking back, that was probably a mistake because at least I would have known for sure that I was gay, or at least having difficulty, and could have avoided the pain of the resulting divorce.
Like you, I was always faithful. I never cheated and had no intention of ever breaking my marital vows. However, I couldn't be what my wife needed. So after six years she finally decided to divorce. I knew it was best for both of us, but I was still devastated. In fact, we both were. We were so close that we have remained very good friend even up to today, which is about seven years later.
After the divorce, I came out, which put me at nearly age thirty. I was finally true to myself and honest with my family and friends. Fortunately, all of them accepted me, even my ex-wife's family and friends. I've been very blessed.
I now live with my partner, who I've been with with for over five years. I am who I am supposed to be. I truly believe that I was made how I was intended and constructed with purpose. I'm new in my faith, and I am still struggling to reconcile my sexuality with Christianity, the faith I have come to believe in. But I believe God loves me exactly as I am. He is perfect, so how could he have made me a mistake?
Jamie
I read your post and I wish I had seen it sooner. I'm glad it was bumped up so I could respond. Below is a bit of my story and I make no claim that what is true for me is true for you. I just hope it gives you some comfort.
Like you, I've always had attraction to the same sex, the only difference being that I'm male. However, I never have been attracted to the opposite sex, at least in terms of pure sexuality. The first time I kissed girl in high school I was both terrified and disgusted. I broke off the relationship the next day and never explained to the poor girl why.
However, I never wanted to be gay. I always thought I would have a family, children, the American dream and being gay was not part of it. So I fooled myself into thinking that I was straight. I told myself that my fears of being gay were just more of my outlandish anxieties and like them my fear of my sexuality would never amount to anything. This was the one time I was dead wrong.
Ultimately, I met and fell in love with a wonderful woman when I started college. My love was true and deep, but there was no sexual attraction. We eventually married and stayed together as man and wife for over six years. But it was clear that I had trouble in the bedroom. While we were always affectionate, we rarely were sexually active. If I had to guess, I would say in our six years of marriage we had sex less than a dozen times, if that. And they were always traumatic experiences for me. We never experimented before marriage so we were both virgins. Looking back, that was probably a mistake because at least I would have known for sure that I was gay, or at least having difficulty, and could have avoided the pain of the resulting divorce.
Like you, I was always faithful. I never cheated and had no intention of ever breaking my marital vows. However, I couldn't be what my wife needed. So after six years she finally decided to divorce. I knew it was best for both of us, but I was still devastated. In fact, we both were. We were so close that we have remained very good friend even up to today, which is about seven years later.
After the divorce, I came out, which put me at nearly age thirty. I was finally true to myself and honest with my family and friends. Fortunately, all of them accepted me, even my ex-wife's family and friends. I've been very blessed.
I now live with my partner, who I've been with with for over five years. I am who I am supposed to be. I truly believe that I was made how I was intended and constructed with purpose. I'm new in my faith, and I am still struggling to reconcile my sexuality with Christianity, the faith I have come to believe in. But I believe God loves me exactly as I am. He is perfect, so how could he have made me a mistake?
Jamie
"Common things occur commonly. Uncommon things don't. Therefore, when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." -- C.J. Peters
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cuttingirl
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:51 am
This thread is wonderful!!! I am integrating and reflecting on your words Liz, Searunner, and Tina... thank you guys so so so much for comforting, insightful, supportive, loving feedback and insights. Of course I have more to say, but I'm going to turn in (just cooked a lot of food and realized how late it is!) Much love~
"I have lived a horrible life, none of which has actually happened"-Winston Churchill
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tina martin
- Posts: 792
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:24 pm
I did not mean to flatter, Liz, but to recognize your remarkable knowledge of the Bible. Then I have a tendency to kid around when I should not. I believe in neither heaven nor hell. Psychology matters to me. The self on earth matters to me. The gay person in my life (my "authority") thinks a person is gay or hetero or asexual. Transgender is likely more complex.
Thank you for joining in and sharing, Jamie. Your experience is not uncommon for gays. For some there is much confusion and much suffering. We just want to try and alleviate confusion so we can live our authentic, integrated self. How good that you were able to remain friends with your ex and are now able to live your true self.
Thank you for joining in and sharing, Jamie. Your experience is not uncommon for gays. For some there is much confusion and much suffering. We just want to try and alleviate confusion so we can live our authentic, integrated self. How good that you were able to remain friends with your ex and are now able to live your true self.
Hello Liz:
Well, I have not read any of your online posts until today ! How long have you been studying the bible ? Were you raised as a Christian ? The last thing I read in the bible was Chronicles and it wasn't very uplifting ! Do you take Bible Classes ? Who is your guide ? I was raised Lutheran, which I believe was started by Martin Luther and he used to be a Catholic before that ? Cannot remember for sure. I am not sure if I am a Christian, or not, right now or what I believe in. Do you explore other religions and their writings too ? I haven't been on the Peer Support website for a while. I will write again soon. Thanks for listening. Lynda Lu.
Well, I have not read any of your online posts until today ! How long have you been studying the bible ? Were you raised as a Christian ? The last thing I read in the bible was Chronicles and it wasn't very uplifting ! Do you take Bible Classes ? Who is your guide ? I was raised Lutheran, which I believe was started by Martin Luther and he used to be a Catholic before that ? Cannot remember for sure. I am not sure if I am a Christian, or not, right now or what I believe in. Do you explore other religions and their writings too ? I haven't been on the Peer Support website for a while. I will write again soon. Thanks for listening. Lynda Lu.