Does anyone get those space feeling of unreality?
I get these spacey feelings of unreality when I get too anxious it's like I get extremely overwhelmed like I just want to disconnect with the world, the bad thing is that I know I create those symptoms but idk how to stop them from taking over! Right after I get that anxious I just feel drained with head aches and. More depressed feeling even helpless I need help recovering and like I like to say snapping out of it! I hate that I feel as if I was floating in space I could do my job and all that it entailes but my head is just feeling so confused and overwhelmed! I want to find a way not to let those thoughts bother me as much as they do! Can anyone help me?
Hi,
I can say that that used to be my main symptom of anxiety and stress. I can honestly say that for years, I struggled with what is known as depersonalization(thinking I'm not real) and derealization(thinking everything around me isn't real) during times of high stress. My son has severe autism, which equals chronic stress, and I needed to find other healthier ways to cope with the stress other than staying in state of depersonalization. Depersonalization will never kill you, make you go crazy, etc., and it's just your body's way of protecting itself from stress, but it is uncomfortable and annoying so it's worth understanding.
First of all, every human being has moments of dp and/or dr. In Lucinda Bassett's book called, "From Panic to Power" she refers to it as "bewilderment". Basically, when you are under stress with external events or from stressing yourself out internally such as with negative thoughts about perceived stressful situations, your body will then respond by producing brain chemicals that produce a drug like effect. So basically because of the stress, your brain is making you feel "high". That's all that it is. Unfortunately, although our body is trying to help us deal with stress and protecting itself since we aren't doing such a good job handling the stress, we then react by becoming even more anxious because we feel bizarre and out of control, just like if we were on some type of drug. So, then our body produces more stress hormones in response, and the cycle just gets worse and worse.
There are so many of us on here who have dealt with that symptom in some form, so you are not crazy or bizarre. It's your body's natural response to stress.
How do you deal with it? First of all, you have to have healthy ways to cope with stress so that your body doesn't feel the need to produce the stress hormones to take care of itself and cause the depersonalization and derealization. There are so many ways to cope with stress which includes-doing this program to change your thinking and your behaviors in response to stress, going to a good therapist, exercising, relaxation, healthy self-soothing techniques that can be called grounding techniques-many adult survivors of child abuse have high depersonalization symptoms to deal with stress so if you google grounding techniques for adult surviors of abuse you will find a wide variety of self-soothing techniques, etc. I think that medication can help you not "freak out" from the depersonalization, but using a drug to make you feel "less drugged" usually doesn't work, but it is an option. Having a healthy diet that is low in sugar and avoiding foods that may cause hidden allergies is also something to consider. Also, it is very important to learn healthy boundaries, which went a long way in healing me from depersonalization. For example, you need to learn to have healthy boundaries in taking care of yourself-if you are tired, you need to rest and not keep pushing yourself when your body says to stop because if you don't take care of your body it will let you know by producing these chemicals as an alarm signal that it's tired. You also need to have boundaries with others who may want you to go beyond your physical limitations in doing "favors" for others, etc. Boundaries are really important for healing, and I highly recommend the book "Boundaries: When to say Yes and When to say No" by Dr. Henry Cloud. Also, Claire Weekes is a good author on anxiety and really does a great job of reassuring her readers about depersonalization. She helps you not to over react to it which helps your body slow down in producing the chemicals that cause the symptom. Just remember that it can take time to heal from this because the stress hormones can build up in your system. So, for a period of time, you have to keep reassuring yourself about the symptom and not over react to it while you are learning better ways to cope with stress. Rarely do we "snap out of it" even though we want to. Now, and I really mean it's taken awhile to say that that isn't such a bad thing. We're not being punished by any means, but all of us who have this symptom really need to learn these new coping skills that will positively impact our health for the rest of our lives. So, we can't just snap our fingers and make it go away. You have to change your focus to positive coping skills for stress, and then one day after time has passed you'll go, "Hey, I don't do depersonalize anymore, or when I do it some, I don't get anxious about because I know my body is just tired, etc." That's a great place to be, and I was the worst of the worst with that symptom of anxiety, so I can honestly that if I can be healed, anyone can be:).
I just want to throw in, that no matter how severe you feel you are with anxiety, please don't shame yourself about it or beat yourself up about your symptoms. You are a good person who just has a weakness with anxiety. All of us have weaknesses in some form, every human being, and anxiety is just one weakness that many of us have to deal with. Really love yourself where you are at and let that be your focus, and healing will surely follow that. Many of us think loving ourselves when we finally get better is the path, but loving ourselves first is actually the first step:).
Take care,
luvpiggy
I can say that that used to be my main symptom of anxiety and stress. I can honestly say that for years, I struggled with what is known as depersonalization(thinking I'm not real) and derealization(thinking everything around me isn't real) during times of high stress. My son has severe autism, which equals chronic stress, and I needed to find other healthier ways to cope with the stress other than staying in state of depersonalization. Depersonalization will never kill you, make you go crazy, etc., and it's just your body's way of protecting itself from stress, but it is uncomfortable and annoying so it's worth understanding.
First of all, every human being has moments of dp and/or dr. In Lucinda Bassett's book called, "From Panic to Power" she refers to it as "bewilderment". Basically, when you are under stress with external events or from stressing yourself out internally such as with negative thoughts about perceived stressful situations, your body will then respond by producing brain chemicals that produce a drug like effect. So basically because of the stress, your brain is making you feel "high". That's all that it is. Unfortunately, although our body is trying to help us deal with stress and protecting itself since we aren't doing such a good job handling the stress, we then react by becoming even more anxious because we feel bizarre and out of control, just like if we were on some type of drug. So, then our body produces more stress hormones in response, and the cycle just gets worse and worse.
There are so many of us on here who have dealt with that symptom in some form, so you are not crazy or bizarre. It's your body's natural response to stress.
How do you deal with it? First of all, you have to have healthy ways to cope with stress so that your body doesn't feel the need to produce the stress hormones to take care of itself and cause the depersonalization and derealization. There are so many ways to cope with stress which includes-doing this program to change your thinking and your behaviors in response to stress, going to a good therapist, exercising, relaxation, healthy self-soothing techniques that can be called grounding techniques-many adult survivors of child abuse have high depersonalization symptoms to deal with stress so if you google grounding techniques for adult surviors of abuse you will find a wide variety of self-soothing techniques, etc. I think that medication can help you not "freak out" from the depersonalization, but using a drug to make you feel "less drugged" usually doesn't work, but it is an option. Having a healthy diet that is low in sugar and avoiding foods that may cause hidden allergies is also something to consider. Also, it is very important to learn healthy boundaries, which went a long way in healing me from depersonalization. For example, you need to learn to have healthy boundaries in taking care of yourself-if you are tired, you need to rest and not keep pushing yourself when your body says to stop because if you don't take care of your body it will let you know by producing these chemicals as an alarm signal that it's tired. You also need to have boundaries with others who may want you to go beyond your physical limitations in doing "favors" for others, etc. Boundaries are really important for healing, and I highly recommend the book "Boundaries: When to say Yes and When to say No" by Dr. Henry Cloud. Also, Claire Weekes is a good author on anxiety and really does a great job of reassuring her readers about depersonalization. She helps you not to over react to it which helps your body slow down in producing the chemicals that cause the symptom. Just remember that it can take time to heal from this because the stress hormones can build up in your system. So, for a period of time, you have to keep reassuring yourself about the symptom and not over react to it while you are learning better ways to cope with stress. Rarely do we "snap out of it" even though we want to. Now, and I really mean it's taken awhile to say that that isn't such a bad thing. We're not being punished by any means, but all of us who have this symptom really need to learn these new coping skills that will positively impact our health for the rest of our lives. So, we can't just snap our fingers and make it go away. You have to change your focus to positive coping skills for stress, and then one day after time has passed you'll go, "Hey, I don't do depersonalize anymore, or when I do it some, I don't get anxious about because I know my body is just tired, etc." That's a great place to be, and I was the worst of the worst with that symptom of anxiety, so I can honestly that if I can be healed, anyone can be:).
I just want to throw in, that no matter how severe you feel you are with anxiety, please don't shame yourself about it or beat yourself up about your symptoms. You are a good person who just has a weakness with anxiety. All of us have weaknesses in some form, every human being, and anxiety is just one weakness that many of us have to deal with. Really love yourself where you are at and let that be your focus, and healing will surely follow that. Many of us think loving ourselves when we finally get better is the path, but loving ourselves first is actually the first step:).
Take care,
luvpiggy
Yes I feel that way sometimes to the point that I feel so strange in myself I almost don't recognize me! I hate when I get those anxious feelings and think what about I forget whomy family is or I freak out and start to feel like I don't know who they are!!! That scares me the most! I don't know what technique to use so that I can stop thinking this way and stop getting scared everytime the thought comes to my head! Can u tell me about your story how did u get better? Are you over your anxiety and your depression? Can u give me a piece of advice to help inspire me to continue on?
Hi,ytez91,
I'm sorry if you didn't see it for some reason, and I don't mean it in a sarcastic way by any means:), but in my initial reply I shared the many things that helped me deal with this symptom such as learning better coping skills to deal with stress such as exercise, doing this program, finding a good therapist for me to deal with childhood abuse in my past, learning good self-soothing skills, and having proper boundaries. I do want to say that for me personally, I really have underwent a lot of spiritual growth regarding my identity as a child of God. I have things I have written about that that I could share by private message, but I don't want you to feel that I am shoving my religious beliefs down your throat, by any means. You can definitely be a Christian who has to deal with this, and it doesn't mean you aren't in a good place spiritually if you depersonalize. It was just that I didn't understand that God has a lot to say about this regarding identity in Him, and that helped me tremendously. In my post, I recommended books by Claire Weekes, and books on boundaries such as "Boundaries: When to Say Yes and When to Say No" by Dr. Henry Cloud.
I think what is tricky about healing from depersonalization is that you don't attack it directly. You focus on coping with stress during times when you aren't depersonalizing before it gets to the point where your body produces the stress hormones that make you depersonalize. If you get to the point where you are depersonalizing, and that will keep going on while you are learning better coping skills and getting rid of the adrenaline, you do need to remind yourself what is going on, and I think the most effective thing to say to yourself during that time is-"This isn't going to kill me because it is actually my brain's way of protecting me from stress." You think that you are going to lose complete control because part of yourself wants to escape from stress, but it NEVER happens to anyone. One of the hallmark's of dp is that you feel like you are on drugs but your reality testing remains in tact. In other words, you feel like you don't know who you are, but if someone asked you, you can say your name, your address, etc. You may even fumble a little and be afraid that you won't know, but you know:). You feel like you are going to disappear, but you never do. You just really need to remind yourself about the truth that your body is giving itself a harmless, but uncomfortable break from stress, and at my worst with depersonalization a therapist reminded me "No one's ever lost themselves and not come back!" You just have to write down these mantras and repeat the truth to yourself when it is happening.
However, and again, it is very important to work on dealing with your stress when you are not depersonalizing. When you exercise, your body will get rid of built up stress hormones, and over time, your body will learn to better use the hormones-in other words your body won't over react and send them out when you don't need them, and then your body will process them better. Also, another tricky thing about healing from dp is that the changes you make today will usually not be obvious for a while. If you start an exercise program, you may notice some immediate changes in other ways, but it can take months for your body to rid itself of the excess adrenaline, etc. In cases of extreme stress, the adrenaline gland actually enlarges to produce more adrenaline, so it makes sense that its going to take time for that gland to shrink back down and function properly. You really have to be nice to yourself during the time it takes to adjust.
Having controlled relaxation before you are in a state of dp is more effective. For example, when you are in dp, your body is relaxing itself until you consciously get anxious about it. So, when you are already in a state of dp, your body is relaxing itself in a way where it took control so that's why waiting to relax when you are in a state of dp isn't as effective. You do need to remain calm with your thoughts though.
The self-soothing and grounding techniques are really important, and I highly recommend you google that term regarding child abuse even if you weren't abused. If you make self-soothing rituals a automatic part of your day, you will be in charge of soothing and your body won't feel as great a need to react to stress with depersonalization. I personally take a warm bubble bath and drink a cup of green tea with lemon and a little sugar every night:). During my worst with dp, finding ways to have harmless fun and delight was a necessity. I spent a lot of time comforting myself and making myself a priority. One of those harmless fun things was purchasing my own Karaoke machine and plenty of Karaoke CD's from the 80's:). One time I bought a pair of roller skates;). Whatever is silly, fun and harmless, but incorporating that into your daily routine in some form goes a long way in healing. Just think about it, your home work for dealing with dp is find fun things to do for yourself!:)
I used to not be a big advocate of the diet factor, because having a cupcake a day was such a big comfort, and I'm not saying to never treat yourself, but really, a diet high in sugar does have a negative impact on your health including your emotional health. A study recently found that the foods we often seek comfort from actually cause depression. Lucky for me, there are healthy foods that provide comfort for me since I do love vegetables! I'm going to make some pumpkin soup this weekend, and I became a vegetarian in January. So focus on finding enjoyable foods that aren't high in sugar, and I really don't think artificial sweeteners are a good option. If you do exercise, and really it is a must for healing from dp, you can afford to treat yourself occasionally, keeping the sugar even does help.
Also, I had no idea that looking at having psychologically healthy boundaries would be so important in healing. I don't know you personally so I don't know what your issues are, but you could be a mother who never gives yourself a break, who feels overwhelmed with the responsibility of parenting, etc. If that is the case, you would then need to look at setting healthy boundaries to protect yourself so you don't get overwhelmed. Maybe that means letting your hubby take on more of the load, or getting babysitting without feeling guilty, etc.
I just want to say that people who are raised in dysfunctional families often have the symptom of depersonalization. As children, they used depersonalization to escape from their pain, and it worked, and there was no anxiety because of it. Also, during the time of childhood when we are supposed to be developing our identities, if the child's family is dysfunctional, the child will not have a lot of time to focus on healthy identity development because he or she is too busy surviving, playing dysfunctional roles that a child shouldn't have to play, etc. When that child grows up and leaves the nest, he or she may then be impacted by the lack of identity development which causes a lot of anxiety and depersonalization. As a child, dp was used as a psychological defense mechanism as protection from pain, and when the child becomes an adult, he or she may find that depersonalization isn't an effective coping mechanism. What was used to help, now hurts. So, one of the main ways to heal from that is to learn healthy boundaries to complete identity development. That may not all apply to you, but it most certainly applied to me, and I wish I would have known sooner. I also had a lot of shame-so much so that that was my main identity, and I'm learning to deal with that further.
All of that took time and a lot of work, but it was well worth it. Yes, I'm better now. Depression is actually a rare thing for me. I'm not completely anxiety free and perfect, but I swear I used to be spend 90% of my day depersonalizing just four years ago. For the past 2 years, I've gone months without doing it, and if I have seconds of it, I don't over react to it. So, my suggestion is, depending on your personal circumstances, look at some of the coping techniques and try some of them, and just see what works for you without putting yourself on some strict time line for healing.
Hope something I said helped:).
Take care,
luvpiggy
I'm sorry if you didn't see it for some reason, and I don't mean it in a sarcastic way by any means:), but in my initial reply I shared the many things that helped me deal with this symptom such as learning better coping skills to deal with stress such as exercise, doing this program, finding a good therapist for me to deal with childhood abuse in my past, learning good self-soothing skills, and having proper boundaries. I do want to say that for me personally, I really have underwent a lot of spiritual growth regarding my identity as a child of God. I have things I have written about that that I could share by private message, but I don't want you to feel that I am shoving my religious beliefs down your throat, by any means. You can definitely be a Christian who has to deal with this, and it doesn't mean you aren't in a good place spiritually if you depersonalize. It was just that I didn't understand that God has a lot to say about this regarding identity in Him, and that helped me tremendously. In my post, I recommended books by Claire Weekes, and books on boundaries such as "Boundaries: When to Say Yes and When to Say No" by Dr. Henry Cloud.
I think what is tricky about healing from depersonalization is that you don't attack it directly. You focus on coping with stress during times when you aren't depersonalizing before it gets to the point where your body produces the stress hormones that make you depersonalize. If you get to the point where you are depersonalizing, and that will keep going on while you are learning better coping skills and getting rid of the adrenaline, you do need to remind yourself what is going on, and I think the most effective thing to say to yourself during that time is-"This isn't going to kill me because it is actually my brain's way of protecting me from stress." You think that you are going to lose complete control because part of yourself wants to escape from stress, but it NEVER happens to anyone. One of the hallmark's of dp is that you feel like you are on drugs but your reality testing remains in tact. In other words, you feel like you don't know who you are, but if someone asked you, you can say your name, your address, etc. You may even fumble a little and be afraid that you won't know, but you know:). You feel like you are going to disappear, but you never do. You just really need to remind yourself about the truth that your body is giving itself a harmless, but uncomfortable break from stress, and at my worst with depersonalization a therapist reminded me "No one's ever lost themselves and not come back!" You just have to write down these mantras and repeat the truth to yourself when it is happening.
However, and again, it is very important to work on dealing with your stress when you are not depersonalizing. When you exercise, your body will get rid of built up stress hormones, and over time, your body will learn to better use the hormones-in other words your body won't over react and send them out when you don't need them, and then your body will process them better. Also, another tricky thing about healing from dp is that the changes you make today will usually not be obvious for a while. If you start an exercise program, you may notice some immediate changes in other ways, but it can take months for your body to rid itself of the excess adrenaline, etc. In cases of extreme stress, the adrenaline gland actually enlarges to produce more adrenaline, so it makes sense that its going to take time for that gland to shrink back down and function properly. You really have to be nice to yourself during the time it takes to adjust.
Having controlled relaxation before you are in a state of dp is more effective. For example, when you are in dp, your body is relaxing itself until you consciously get anxious about it. So, when you are already in a state of dp, your body is relaxing itself in a way where it took control so that's why waiting to relax when you are in a state of dp isn't as effective. You do need to remain calm with your thoughts though.
The self-soothing and grounding techniques are really important, and I highly recommend you google that term regarding child abuse even if you weren't abused. If you make self-soothing rituals a automatic part of your day, you will be in charge of soothing and your body won't feel as great a need to react to stress with depersonalization. I personally take a warm bubble bath and drink a cup of green tea with lemon and a little sugar every night:). During my worst with dp, finding ways to have harmless fun and delight was a necessity. I spent a lot of time comforting myself and making myself a priority. One of those harmless fun things was purchasing my own Karaoke machine and plenty of Karaoke CD's from the 80's:). One time I bought a pair of roller skates;). Whatever is silly, fun and harmless, but incorporating that into your daily routine in some form goes a long way in healing. Just think about it, your home work for dealing with dp is find fun things to do for yourself!:)
I used to not be a big advocate of the diet factor, because having a cupcake a day was such a big comfort, and I'm not saying to never treat yourself, but really, a diet high in sugar does have a negative impact on your health including your emotional health. A study recently found that the foods we often seek comfort from actually cause depression. Lucky for me, there are healthy foods that provide comfort for me since I do love vegetables! I'm going to make some pumpkin soup this weekend, and I became a vegetarian in January. So focus on finding enjoyable foods that aren't high in sugar, and I really don't think artificial sweeteners are a good option. If you do exercise, and really it is a must for healing from dp, you can afford to treat yourself occasionally, keeping the sugar even does help.
Also, I had no idea that looking at having psychologically healthy boundaries would be so important in healing. I don't know you personally so I don't know what your issues are, but you could be a mother who never gives yourself a break, who feels overwhelmed with the responsibility of parenting, etc. If that is the case, you would then need to look at setting healthy boundaries to protect yourself so you don't get overwhelmed. Maybe that means letting your hubby take on more of the load, or getting babysitting without feeling guilty, etc.
I just want to say that people who are raised in dysfunctional families often have the symptom of depersonalization. As children, they used depersonalization to escape from their pain, and it worked, and there was no anxiety because of it. Also, during the time of childhood when we are supposed to be developing our identities, if the child's family is dysfunctional, the child will not have a lot of time to focus on healthy identity development because he or she is too busy surviving, playing dysfunctional roles that a child shouldn't have to play, etc. When that child grows up and leaves the nest, he or she may then be impacted by the lack of identity development which causes a lot of anxiety and depersonalization. As a child, dp was used as a psychological defense mechanism as protection from pain, and when the child becomes an adult, he or she may find that depersonalization isn't an effective coping mechanism. What was used to help, now hurts. So, one of the main ways to heal from that is to learn healthy boundaries to complete identity development. That may not all apply to you, but it most certainly applied to me, and I wish I would have known sooner. I also had a lot of shame-so much so that that was my main identity, and I'm learning to deal with that further.
All of that took time and a lot of work, but it was well worth it. Yes, I'm better now. Depression is actually a rare thing for me. I'm not completely anxiety free and perfect, but I swear I used to be spend 90% of my day depersonalizing just four years ago. For the past 2 years, I've gone months without doing it, and if I have seconds of it, I don't over react to it. So, my suggestion is, depending on your personal circumstances, look at some of the coping techniques and try some of them, and just see what works for you without putting yourself on some strict time line for healing.
Hope something I said helped:).
Take care,
luvpiggy
I get that feeling quite a bit myself. Most recently was at Disney World of all places!!!! I couldn't even enjoy my children that day because I felt like I was on this weird acid trip or something!... and of course the experience of walking through an animated park all day didn't help the "weird" feeling! Recently I have been going in and out of this "fog" and feeling detached from my body. At times I'll pinch myself to make sure I can still feel! It's so bizarre! I notice that it happens more when I'm really anxious about something. Wish I could snap out of it when it's happening because it's so uncomfortable and scarry. When I'm not in the "fog", I feel great and think about how much of my life I'm wasting away on my dumb anxiety... Ugh!
"Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?"
Jesus Christ
Matthew 6:27
Hi luvpiggy,
Thank you for your detailed replay, just yesterday I had a dp episode I was watching a movie and I fell asleep my mom woke me up and I was scared and anxious I wen to bed. My fiancé and I live together we were in bed and I had one of the worst panic/dp attacks, I thought I was going to forget who I was an I was going to think I was the protagonist of the movie and I was going to completely go insane! I couldn't sleep but I knew I just wanted to disconnet from everything! It was ridiculous what I was so scared about but it made me so afraid I wanted to run, escape! I didn't want to tell my fiancé I was scared and embarrased and all I did was pray for it to go away! What upsets me is that because of that panic/dp episode I won't be able to enjoy the weekend scared of it coming back! I'm supposed to go to a family party but I hate being there bot being able to enjoy it without worry and anxiety!
Thank you for your detailed replay, just yesterday I had a dp episode I was watching a movie and I fell asleep my mom woke me up and I was scared and anxious I wen to bed. My fiancé and I live together we were in bed and I had one of the worst panic/dp attacks, I thought I was going to forget who I was an I was going to think I was the protagonist of the movie and I was going to completely go insane! I couldn't sleep but I knew I just wanted to disconnet from everything! It was ridiculous what I was so scared about but it made me so afraid I wanted to run, escape! I didn't want to tell my fiancé I was scared and embarrased and all I did was pray for it to go away! What upsets me is that because of that panic/dp episode I won't be able to enjoy the weekend scared of it coming back! I'm supposed to go to a family party but I hate being there bot being able to enjoy it without worry and anxiety!
-
9oclockreservation
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:32 pm
Ytez -
When I'm dealing with depersonalization, I find it comforting to remind myself that there's nothing I need to do to make myself feel better. That is, it's okay to feel this way and if I let time pass, I WILL feel better. The sensations, while they are often very uncomfortable, are transitory and will not last forever. They cannot hurt us and as we begin to relax, the sensations pass.
This is just like any of the other symptoms of anxiety. If you focus on them, they get worse and tend to persist. But if you allow them to exist and just focus on living your day, then they tend to relent and pass. As we learned in Session 2, accept and allow the symptoms to be there; don't fight them. Fighting only makes them stronger and last longer.
One last piece of advice: when feeling this way try to engage yourself in some type of activity. Distraction is a great tool. For me, the best distraction technique for depersonalization is to get in a one on one conversation with someone. It doesn't matter what we talk about, it's just that the personal interaction helps to ground me.
Good luck in your recovery,
Jamie
When I'm dealing with depersonalization, I find it comforting to remind myself that there's nothing I need to do to make myself feel better. That is, it's okay to feel this way and if I let time pass, I WILL feel better. The sensations, while they are often very uncomfortable, are transitory and will not last forever. They cannot hurt us and as we begin to relax, the sensations pass.
This is just like any of the other symptoms of anxiety. If you focus on them, they get worse and tend to persist. But if you allow them to exist and just focus on living your day, then they tend to relent and pass. As we learned in Session 2, accept and allow the symptoms to be there; don't fight them. Fighting only makes them stronger and last longer.
One last piece of advice: when feeling this way try to engage yourself in some type of activity. Distraction is a great tool. For me, the best distraction technique for depersonalization is to get in a one on one conversation with someone. It doesn't matter what we talk about, it's just that the personal interaction helps to ground me.
Good luck in your recovery,
Jamie
"Common things occur commonly. Uncommon things don't. Therefore, when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." -- C.J. Peters