Hi all,
I just finished teh program with a coach,and i am pretty proud of myself. It has been 15 weeks+, adn a lot of work. However, today and yesterday i have so many body symptoms. I am unsteady in my head, spacey and my back is stiff, making me feel unhealthy and tired. i am not freaking out, but i am dissappointed that i have these symptoms. Can anyone give me any reason or reassurance?
Just finished program/have symptoms!
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Guest
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Guest
Hi LMM.
Like yourself i have been through the program...1 full time actually and going on my 2rd full time but this time i'm putting more effort into it.
Let me just congratulate you for getting through the program...Awesome job buddy, it's taken alot of determination to make it through the 15 weeks. That's fantastic.
Now to the concern. I'm not suprised you are feeling this way. You've put in alot of effort and went through the lessons and did what you had to do and now you're done the program and so why do you feel these symptoms still? Of course you feel this way, your problem is still there!! But what do you expect? The program is to give you the skills to handle the anxiety and feel more comfortable in working through stress. This does not mean you will always feel the symptoms...it just means that even though you went through the program, you aren't done growing...I was like this too...I'd suggest looking over your accomplishments that you have made in the past 15 weeks...Remember in lesson 3...Nothing is black and white and thinking in an "All or Nothing" way is not going to help.Also you don't think Lucinda gets these anymore?
I went through the program the first time myself and I felt alot better...I stopped saying bad stuff about myself to other people and i stopped asking people if i did this the right way or that the right way and it helped me to quit working a crappy job, quit smoking, put myself through collage and face the person who sexually abused me...but i still had the symptoms and then i made the mistake of getting rusty and I didn't go back to my old state 100% but maybe 60-70%. About 1-2 years later...i decided to try again but I avoided accepting my symptoms and using the technique to calm myself down when i got anxiety and it got frustrating and I gave up...i think i tried off and on for a little while...getting to maybe the 7th or 8th lesson and then stopping again...But then something happened...
I got sick with a cold and my throat swelled up and it was starting to affect my breathing...I had to even to leave work and go to the hospital...i think i made 3 visits to see the doctor and they didn't even know what to do...they gave me antibiotics and that didn't even touch the issue at all...So being trained in stress (part of my career training...it was more on a physiological level), I realized the only way i could deal with this issue is to keep myself calm which would bring the immune system back into action and I started the program again...It's been about a month or even a month and 1 week and ya i still got the swollen throat but it isn't as bad and my breathing is getting better...It only got this way because I accepted how i was feeling. This i never really applied before when i was doing the program and the symptoms are lessening.
I'm sorry i don't mean to make this about me but I want to give you the wisdom of my own experiences. Sometimes going through the program we don't recieve all it's wisdom...there are things in there that i was like...ooooooohhhh thats what you mean or ohhhhhh that's how you do that...I just realized 4 years later that I wasn't journalling in a very helpful way.
Neways I don't mean to dissapoint you and i really do hope that this helps you out some.
Mike
Like yourself i have been through the program...1 full time actually and going on my 2rd full time but this time i'm putting more effort into it.
Let me just congratulate you for getting through the program...Awesome job buddy, it's taken alot of determination to make it through the 15 weeks. That's fantastic.
Now to the concern. I'm not suprised you are feeling this way. You've put in alot of effort and went through the lessons and did what you had to do and now you're done the program and so why do you feel these symptoms still? Of course you feel this way, your problem is still there!! But what do you expect? The program is to give you the skills to handle the anxiety and feel more comfortable in working through stress. This does not mean you will always feel the symptoms...it just means that even though you went through the program, you aren't done growing...I was like this too...I'd suggest looking over your accomplishments that you have made in the past 15 weeks...Remember in lesson 3...Nothing is black and white and thinking in an "All or Nothing" way is not going to help.Also you don't think Lucinda gets these anymore?
I went through the program the first time myself and I felt alot better...I stopped saying bad stuff about myself to other people and i stopped asking people if i did this the right way or that the right way and it helped me to quit working a crappy job, quit smoking, put myself through collage and face the person who sexually abused me...but i still had the symptoms and then i made the mistake of getting rusty and I didn't go back to my old state 100% but maybe 60-70%. About 1-2 years later...i decided to try again but I avoided accepting my symptoms and using the technique to calm myself down when i got anxiety and it got frustrating and I gave up...i think i tried off and on for a little while...getting to maybe the 7th or 8th lesson and then stopping again...But then something happened...
I got sick with a cold and my throat swelled up and it was starting to affect my breathing...I had to even to leave work and go to the hospital...i think i made 3 visits to see the doctor and they didn't even know what to do...they gave me antibiotics and that didn't even touch the issue at all...So being trained in stress (part of my career training...it was more on a physiological level), I realized the only way i could deal with this issue is to keep myself calm which would bring the immune system back into action and I started the program again...It's been about a month or even a month and 1 week and ya i still got the swollen throat but it isn't as bad and my breathing is getting better...It only got this way because I accepted how i was feeling. This i never really applied before when i was doing the program and the symptoms are lessening.
I'm sorry i don't mean to make this about me but I want to give you the wisdom of my own experiences. Sometimes going through the program we don't recieve all it's wisdom...there are things in there that i was like...ooooooohhhh thats what you mean or ohhhhhh that's how you do that...I just realized 4 years later that I wasn't journalling in a very helpful way.
Neways I don't mean to dissapoint you and i really do hope that this helps you out some.
Mike
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Guest
firstly, thanks to both of you that responded! Very helpful.
Ninja,
You are so nice to take so much time to tell me your story. I do see what you are saying in a way - my coach has also told me that as long as I am afraid in some way of my body symptoms, then they will stick around. I guess a part of me is still unsure of what they are, since my past behavior is always to go to the very top of medical tests to rule out whatever i feel. In teh past months i have gone to the ENT adn Neurologist both twice, and nothing. But I am struggling to let it go. You seem to have had a better reaction to your throat this time, and maybe that is the key. Also, my coach said that i made the best list of secondary gains she had seen, so I know what i am getting out of this, and apparently my hypochondiasis is a distraction to those issues. Have you experienced a chronic symptom that you had never had before in yoru life with anxiety?
Ninja,
You are so nice to take so much time to tell me your story. I do see what you are saying in a way - my coach has also told me that as long as I am afraid in some way of my body symptoms, then they will stick around. I guess a part of me is still unsure of what they are, since my past behavior is always to go to the very top of medical tests to rule out whatever i feel. In teh past months i have gone to the ENT adn Neurologist both twice, and nothing. But I am struggling to let it go. You seem to have had a better reaction to your throat this time, and maybe that is the key. Also, my coach said that i made the best list of secondary gains she had seen, so I know what i am getting out of this, and apparently my hypochondiasis is a distraction to those issues. Have you experienced a chronic symptom that you had never had before in yoru life with anxiety?
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Guest
I'm glad you found what i said to be helpful. From what i get out of what you just said...I feel the best thing I could advise is to learn about stress on more a physiological level which is what i was learning in one of my courses and it helped me out...sometimes we need more information before we can fully accept what someone says...especially with these symptoms being from fight/flight. I'd suggest you read a book by Hans Selye. He did alot of research in the field of stress and is well known in it. You could also check out adrenal fatigue, that would help out as well 
I wonder if maybe you get it very intellectually right now but not on a feeling level. I was like this as well and it was like i was trying to solve a puzzle when i was doing the program...as if i was a robot and needed to change around some circuits. Getting it on an emotional level is completely diffrent.
I've had anxiety for most of my life so it's hard to say about your question. I've had all the symptoms i've had before...dizziness, bewilderment and weakness to colds/flus, fatigue...nothing new.
Mike
I wonder if maybe you get it very intellectually right now but not on a feeling level. I was like this as well and it was like i was trying to solve a puzzle when i was doing the program...as if i was a robot and needed to change around some circuits. Getting it on an emotional level is completely diffrent.
I've had anxiety for most of my life so it's hard to say about your question. I've had all the symptoms i've had before...dizziness, bewilderment and weakness to colds/flus, fatigue...nothing new.
Mike
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Guest
Ninja,
lots of things for me to think about - thanks.
also, i should say that my coach also pointed out time and time again, that i my BIG thing to work on, is praising myself for every little achievement each day every day. I am admittedly NOT good at that. She says taht will change my "Stress biology". For example, i just went for bike ride with my family, and i have nervous to do that , because one of my ongoing symptoms is feeling unsteady and seized up AFTER a ride in a car or a bike -like motion sickness, only AFTER the motion is over. Anywya, i just did it and afterward i felt the symptom, but ,what i should be doing is focusing on the fact that i did it in the first place, i did not avoid it. instead, i go into fear on my symptoms and anticipate them while i am doing it. so anyway, it sounded like you can relate to that as well. what do you think of that? and yes, i probably understand this intelledctually, just not emotionally in my gut.
Also, can you tell me what adrenal fatigue is?
I will get the book.
lots of things for me to think about - thanks.
also, i should say that my coach also pointed out time and time again, that i my BIG thing to work on, is praising myself for every little achievement each day every day. I am admittedly NOT good at that. She says taht will change my "Stress biology". For example, i just went for bike ride with my family, and i have nervous to do that , because one of my ongoing symptoms is feeling unsteady and seized up AFTER a ride in a car or a bike -like motion sickness, only AFTER the motion is over. Anywya, i just did it and afterward i felt the symptom, but ,what i should be doing is focusing on the fact that i did it in the first place, i did not avoid it. instead, i go into fear on my symptoms and anticipate them while i am doing it. so anyway, it sounded like you can relate to that as well. what do you think of that? and yes, i probably understand this intelledctually, just not emotionally in my gut.
Also, can you tell me what adrenal fatigue is?
I will get the book.
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Guest
Well I'd like to say that of course you had that anxious feeling..you've had this motion sickness feeling for awhile now so its only normal that your body continues this cycle. Also I wanted to say this before but only thought about it later on...
Trust...This is something that may possibly be a little shaken in you...I assume this because you mentioned that someone tried to molest you when you were younger and from my personal experience and experience from others...this "Heavily" affects our sense of trust...even when it comes to our recovery!! We tend to have a hard time even accepting another person's words or accepting that what they say has value in it or not...not to mention having anxiety anyways and how we do not like taking risks. So this is also another thing to see and realize that it is only normal to feel this way after the pain and suffer we have endured.
Incase you haven't noticed...I've been bring up this accepting thing. How can you praise yourself for accomplishments if you haven't accepted the problem? If you think about this...avoiding the problem means you avoid anything associated to it...Even your achievements.
You have a right to feeling the anxiety that you feel. Once you can explain to yourself why you feel this then it becomes easier to accept. I'll give you an example
I'm afraid of social situations because I got so nervous and i can't focus and am so bewildered and what-if those scary feelings come back...What-if i can't handle them.
--> Of course i'm afraid of social situations because I've had many bad experiences with them and I have emotions attached to these memories and my mind is trying to protect me from getting into similar situations and it does this through the feelings of anxiety and thats alright. This doesn't make me any less of a person and all it is, is a limitation. I'm not perfect and so-what if i have this problem..i'm doing a great job working towards conquering this limitations and eventually i'll get there. Until then, I'm going to continue the program and allow myself to have this issue. It's not going to be forever...this is no big deal.
I feel that once you can do that, then praising yourself will come naturally...at least this is what i have found and yes the coach you have is right...it will change your stress biology.
Now i'm going to kinda explain why it'll change your biology as well as explain adrenal fatigue at the same time. When you have an external stress...the hypothalamus shoots off signals to your pituitary to release all its hormones (like the growth hormone and a hormone that activates the Adrenals). The adrenals get activated which release Epinephrine, Norepinephrine (those 2 together are known as Adrenaline) and Cortisol (turns off the stress response).
Hypothalamus---->Pituitary---->Adrenals
The Hypothalamus will continue to set off this chain reaction until the cortisol goes and says stop. Now if there is alot of stress over a consistent period of time your body is releasing more and more of these chemicals...and in a similar way to heroine, the body needs more and more cortisol to have the same effect as in the first stage. The body tries to cope and so the cortisol is at a constant level instead of taking a break. Eventually the body can't handle it anymore and the cortisol level drops and the person cannot handle stress very well at all...even fun things can become stressful...this is considered Adrenal Fatigue...That first book I suggested can go more in detail and the 2nd book tells you what it does to your attitude and energy level and what you can do to work on it...That stuff is similar to what is taught in the program...The program teaches us to Manually turn off the stress response and so our adrenals actually rebuild themselves and our tolerance for cortisol lowers.
Acceptance and This theory...When we are fighting this is when the adrenaline and stress response comes up...this can mean fighting a thought (I don't want to do this or that), a person, and even anxiety. When we can accept...this is saying we're alright and it can turn off the red alert that our brains are giving us. This can help bring up our good emotions and even our creativity and we feel more secure and then we can allow ourself to trust again.
I hope this helps you out
Mike
Trust...This is something that may possibly be a little shaken in you...I assume this because you mentioned that someone tried to molest you when you were younger and from my personal experience and experience from others...this "Heavily" affects our sense of trust...even when it comes to our recovery!! We tend to have a hard time even accepting another person's words or accepting that what they say has value in it or not...not to mention having anxiety anyways and how we do not like taking risks. So this is also another thing to see and realize that it is only normal to feel this way after the pain and suffer we have endured.
Incase you haven't noticed...I've been bring up this accepting thing. How can you praise yourself for accomplishments if you haven't accepted the problem? If you think about this...avoiding the problem means you avoid anything associated to it...Even your achievements.
You have a right to feeling the anxiety that you feel. Once you can explain to yourself why you feel this then it becomes easier to accept. I'll give you an example
I'm afraid of social situations because I got so nervous and i can't focus and am so bewildered and what-if those scary feelings come back...What-if i can't handle them.
--> Of course i'm afraid of social situations because I've had many bad experiences with them and I have emotions attached to these memories and my mind is trying to protect me from getting into similar situations and it does this through the feelings of anxiety and thats alright. This doesn't make me any less of a person and all it is, is a limitation. I'm not perfect and so-what if i have this problem..i'm doing a great job working towards conquering this limitations and eventually i'll get there. Until then, I'm going to continue the program and allow myself to have this issue. It's not going to be forever...this is no big deal.
I feel that once you can do that, then praising yourself will come naturally...at least this is what i have found and yes the coach you have is right...it will change your stress biology.
Now i'm going to kinda explain why it'll change your biology as well as explain adrenal fatigue at the same time. When you have an external stress...the hypothalamus shoots off signals to your pituitary to release all its hormones (like the growth hormone and a hormone that activates the Adrenals). The adrenals get activated which release Epinephrine, Norepinephrine (those 2 together are known as Adrenaline) and Cortisol (turns off the stress response).
Hypothalamus---->Pituitary---->Adrenals
The Hypothalamus will continue to set off this chain reaction until the cortisol goes and says stop. Now if there is alot of stress over a consistent period of time your body is releasing more and more of these chemicals...and in a similar way to heroine, the body needs more and more cortisol to have the same effect as in the first stage. The body tries to cope and so the cortisol is at a constant level instead of taking a break. Eventually the body can't handle it anymore and the cortisol level drops and the person cannot handle stress very well at all...even fun things can become stressful...this is considered Adrenal Fatigue...That first book I suggested can go more in detail and the 2nd book tells you what it does to your attitude and energy level and what you can do to work on it...That stuff is similar to what is taught in the program...The program teaches us to Manually turn off the stress response and so our adrenals actually rebuild themselves and our tolerance for cortisol lowers.
Acceptance and This theory...When we are fighting this is when the adrenaline and stress response comes up...this can mean fighting a thought (I don't want to do this or that), a person, and even anxiety. When we can accept...this is saying we're alright and it can turn off the red alert that our brains are giving us. This can help bring up our good emotions and even our creativity and we feel more secure and then we can allow ourself to trust again.
I hope this helps you out
Mike
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Guest
Also when we find it hard to encourage ourselves...we find it easier to beat ourselves up. You have a hard time encouring yourself and its alright to accept this because you've had anxiety for awhile and its frustrating in itself because we tend to feel like we aren't strong enough to deal with it. If you're strong enough to go through the problem and strong enough to reach for help on the forums then this will make you strong enough to overcome the anxiety...maybe slowly, maybe quickly but don't expect a specific set date for this...cuz that could set you up for anticipatory anxiety and more beating yourself up especially near the actually date you set.
Mike
Mike
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Guest
by the way i'm going to be moving in a few and won't have net for a little while...if you need to get ahold of me you can email me at sintaries@hotmail.com
Mike
Mike