The Challenge...Lesson 9

Are you needlessly dragging around a one-ton bag of guilt and worry? Here are some techniques that help reduce guilt and worry in your life to produce dramatic, immediate changes.
THH
Posts: 860
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 10:53 am

Post by THH » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:23 am

Mike,
Its better to let out all the emotion than to keep it all inside.
Oh yes, I always felt I was not good enough. I never knew what I did. It made me over evaluate myself and question everything. I was not a bad student some A's B's & C's. I think I got a few D's and had to go to get tutored. My mom was very strict, appeared to have no emotion. I was so sensitive no one ever had to really punish me, just the look. She had house rules that made no sense to me, and all my friends never had such things.
When I moved out, and to Oregon, my father and mother were finally ending a long messed up marriage. I was very close to my dad, and his mother (My grandma) Thank God I had them both in my life, they gave me balance and security.

I gave it lots of thought and even talked to my father after I learned about everything from my sister.
My mother does not know I know. I have given her many of chances to tell me, but she has never taken the chances. I'm not sure if I want to bring it up to her as technology I don't know about it. I risk the wrath of getting my sister in trouble if I disclose my source. And my dad basically, said its not going to change anything and after a long conversation with him I agree.

I understand you having a hard time with my statement, doing the best they could with what they knew. It is hard for me as well. I always thought it was because my mothers family were dirt poor. There was alot of ignorance. I think you used the word retarded. Ignorance I think is more fitting at least in my mothers case. It is very hard to believe that someone would not seek out right, but... we are not the judge. We think and would do different. So I can not make excuses for why things are the way they are.
I think shame plays a huge roll as well. What would others think? My mother ended up taking on a perfection roll and used higher society as her measuring stick. It was impossible and I realized that at a younger age. I started to be a under achiever to counter balance it. That was wrong of me as well, but I never realized I was doing it in a choice mode. I have chosen to believe that my mother loves me. I can not expect a different mother after 52 years of the same one. I have learned to care for myself and if I would ever let my feelings out to her I know she could not take it. That is not my wish for her, as I do love her and wish the very best life has to offer. I can not ever understand it, Mike. I have to just let it go, as I do not want to waste my WHOLE life making peace that I'm the only one searching for it. My perception of it, anyhow.
For you its much harder as your mom passed. I'm not sure if there is anything on this planet that could make all the wrongs be right. This is a faith based idea that each of us has to decide on. I believe one day we will understand. And in the mean time, we need to live a contented life and try to reach to grow past and through situations that have been put in our paths.
Just my thoughts. :)

THH
Posts: 860
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 10:53 am

Post by THH » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:24 am

Paisleegreen,
Your Welcome! ;)

Karen L
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:09 pm

Post by Karen L » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:37 pm

I am on the road to recovery. There will be obstacles which I will overcome and learn from. I can not go under,over, or around a limitation. I must meet it head on. This may cause me some discomfort, but it will not hurt me.

Hi everyone....just wanted to post a few things really quick...I thought that my guilt over my kids was getting better, but I guess I still have some work to do there.....there was nothing you said directly to me Mike that uposet, so please dont worry about that.......it was just that I always felt like a mom was suppose to protect her kids.....and I felt as though I failed.......and when you used that exact same wording I just ended up in a spiral......my kids love me and dont hold me responsible for anything...but I just dont know how to forgive myself......I know logically that I didnt know and when I did find out I tried to take action.....my big things I beat myself up over was how did I not know??? also, I still do the what-ifing regarding the whole situations......sometimes I picture my kids back at that age just crying and calling for me while that was going on....and I wasnt there..
I guess I just needed to vent....this forum is kinda my journaling....so thank you everyone for listening and all of your input....

been a lil down and angry at my ex again.....kinda having the obsessive thoughts again....can usually jump out of them....but just been having them alot the last few days....not sure if its the loniless, or possibly the guilt of talking to other men....Im not sure...

have been doing alot of driving and going into a few stores I have been avoiding...actually went to the grocery store Sunday evening.....havent been there in months :)

so, although I have been down and angry, I still have been pushing myself.....I know that this is good, and I feel good about myself for doing these things....but still feeling kinda numb....I have been lagging in the exercise, although I do alot of things around the house, so I will push myself back into my exercise routine....also, havent been eating too well, so I need to be watching that....I dont know....Im just kinda "here" right now....but thats ok...

NinjaFrodo
Posts: 1263
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am

Post by NinjaFrodo » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:52 pm

Paisleegreen;

Yes I understand where you are coming from, we do become really sensitive to the stuff around us or at least we have the potential to. I've been so numb myself that it didn't really bother me. I mean I watch Criminal minds to calm me down before I go to bed sometimes however, Horror movies really bother me! I cannot watch the Saw Movies...they make me really angry just to think about the murderers!

Like Oprah says it doesn't matter who's pain is greater, pain is still pain and its all legitamate and significant. I felt bad for these men too and I'm sure some of these situations could be worse then mine but I try not to see it that way. My mother's bf constantly tried to compare me to kids in etheopia saying that I shouldn't feel bad because I have so many things and there are kids in etheopia that don't even have food. It really upset me because it gave me the message that I'm not allowed to feel the way I am.

That is unacceptable for a teacher to do! One of my teachers embarassed me in front of my class because I didn't know my left from my right and I carried that for awhile, it bothered me alot so I can relate. We both deserved more respect that that!

Oh my god are you serious? Thats scary!



Mike
Here is the link to the Letting Go thread which is designated for venting
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087

You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog

http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/

NinjaFrodo
Posts: 1263
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am

Post by NinjaFrodo » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:16 pm

THH;

I think what happens or at least in my case is that when something really horrible takes place and you aren't willing to face it, you don't allow those feelings to come up. You supress the actual emotions in an attempt to keep them under control and you avoid any situation that might bring them up but of course that can never fully happen and you end up letting them out in other ways. There are some people however like my grandma that could keep them in but she had suppressed herself so far that she didn't even have her own opinion or desires. Well the only thing she actually did for herself was watch Young and the Restless but other then that she might have had 2 incidences where she raised her voice out of frustration. I felt so sorry for the way they were verbally abusing her.

I'm glad you had your grandma and your father to help balance you, thats important! I also understand that you don't want your sister to get in trouble and well I guess this is a process that she would have to do on her own. I still have a hard time accepting this though just like I had a hard time with trying to get my mother to realize she was depressed. It may not change anything because she probabbly still isn't willing to deal with it. I guess though if you were to forgive her in verbal discussion (if this was something you wanted to do, i'm not saying it is), you could just let her know that you did struggle with some things but she did her best and you still love her. Just a suggestion or maybe a little bit of projection on my part, I don't know.

Well not to be a super nerd or anything but Guilt itself can prevent someone from dealing with situations. We as living creatures avoid pain as much as we can and seek pleasure. If we attach guilt to something that is pain and so we push it away.

I don't know your mother at all and i'm sorry if this comes off all ignorant like but sometimes the only way to get the best out of life after something so tramatic is to go through the pain, work through it and then be free from it. When you don't your whole existance is just about coping! If you can let it go then maybe that is the best option, I cannot say what is best. However it is my belief that when we die we have to work through our crap in the afterlife anyways. This is an idea I've adapted and heard from a few diffrent people. One of those people is my professional psychic friend. Just because someone dies doesn't mean they are gone, that was proven to me during a shiatsu treatment I was giving in my student clinic, it was one of the strangest things I have ever experienced.


Mike
Here is the link to the Letting Go thread which is designated for venting
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087

You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog

http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/

NinjaFrodo
Posts: 1263
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am

Post by NinjaFrodo » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:30 pm

Karen L;

I guess it was just ment to come up right now. Sometimes life does that to us at the right time. See you are in a group with us right now and we are very supportive people and it is alot easier to face these demons now then if you are by yourself. You know we can relate to you on a number of diffrent topics and that it is a safe place to talk.

Alright so from the sounds of this you are keeping this alive with your mental video of your children back at that age just crying and calling for you while it was going on and you not being there. This kind of thinking would keep it alive and it sounds like it is coming from this should that Mother's should protect their kids. It would be most beneficial for the mother's to protect their kids because there are alot of things out there that can hurt them but this isn't always the reality.

Questions are very important when it comes to negative feelings (and yes I will post about questions too, well actually I already have I just have to look through my previous posts and quote stuff from it) and so I am going to do some countering to it as well as give you some information.

You asked how did I not know? Well how would you know?
You also said that you did everything you could but you still felt you didn't do anything more. So what more could you have done?

As for the sexual abuse itself, I do not know all the details in your case but I want to give you some information which actually i've been struggling with myself. Not all sexual abuse hurts, in fact most of it doesn't. It feels pleasurable to the person and they just don't realize it was wrong. It is the aftermath that hurts! The shame that your body reacted the way it did in response, the sense of trust when the person realizes they were violated and the repeatedly unanswered questions in your head. At least this is my pain.

Your obsessive thoughts increasing could be your mind's way of handling the guilty feelings but it could be those other things you were talking about too.

As for the numbness, I have kinda gone there too and the feeling down.


Mike
Here is the link to the Letting Go thread which is designated for venting
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087

You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog

http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/

NinjaFrodo
Posts: 1263
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am

Post by NinjaFrodo » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:48 pm

The wrong that I have done is not etched in stone, the pain that I have caused was not by choice. It is understandable for these people to feel upset and their opinions are valid. I too was in pain which lead to the pain of others, we all affect each other's lives. There are opportunities to go back and appologize when we're ready. If part of this condition right now is to be self centered or self-absorbed then I'm going to do this and accept it for now and appologize for it later. I'll worry about it later

New quote!

Monday

Ok so I just wanted to let people know what is going on with me right now. Alot has changed since I had watched those Madonna interviews, the ones i posted in last week's lesson and it has lead me to allow myself to feel negative feelings. This did leave me vulnerable and out of nowhere past emotions started to surface. Now they say that when you feel safe this is when things come up so this is a good sign. Those videos about the talk about those teens who committed suicide was the trigger and the video with the 200 men who were molested that came forward also helped. I had been so upset from those and the last couple of nights I would have tears coming down my face and feel really bad. I had that short spurt and now i'm more numb again. I guess thats how the healing works! So one thing that has really bothered me is my sense of shame! I didn't really realize it until now but everytime I was intimate with someone or was doing my own thing, I would feel ashamed and very discusting! This has kept me feeling really down the last couple of days and I realized out of this feeling I had been telling myself that I don't deserve to be happy because my body shouldn't have responded the way it has. I shouldn't have enjoyed the feelings I got while that abuse was being done to me! If I enjoyed it then I condoned it which means that I would become just like him! I am attracted to the same things sexually now as I had been when I was abused and so If I enjoy it now then I feel I am condoning it back then. This makes me feel discusting, my negative thoughts are soooo much more harsher now then before and I'm feeling very discouraged.

However, I did come over to my friend's place and talked about this kind of stuff and he gave me a 2nd person's point of view over it and it did make me feel somewhat better but I feel very strongly that I need to do this feared fantasy method to overcome this. I may post this as long as I can find a way so it isn't too graphic or explicit, we'll see. But I think this "discusting" feeling and this shame have stopped me from enjoying life. I think it sabotages me! I'd really appreciate if I could get some more feedback on what you all think of my concerns about the irrational ways I thought about this...ie shouldn't have enjoyed it, enjoying means condoning...etc.

Oh and I've started to write the book that I want to get published. Its going to be mainly about healing from the abuse but will involve everything I've done and gone through...ie CBT, Abuse, going to the cops, Shiatsu School, being in a hospital...etc.



Mike
Here is the link to the Letting Go thread which is designated for venting
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087

You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog

http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/

Paisleegreen
Posts: 1778
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:27 pm

Post by Paisleegreen » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:01 am

Hi Mike--I think it is a great idea for you to write your book.
Also, it is true that the Principal has a heart attack due to the stress of the court proceedings.

On another note, about the gum on the nose event. Previously, a friend of mine was chewing gum while we were out at P.E. on the grass field. She was told to put her gum on her nose as a way to shame her for chewing gum. She put it on her nose and just "smiled" away! It gave her attention from the other girls and loved it!

The boys weren't in this class w/ us and we pretty much were free outside. So my experience was very different than hers.

NinjaFrodo
Posts: 1263
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am

Post by NinjaFrodo » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:09 am

Paisleegreen;

Thank you. I know that what the principal did was wrong but I feel so bad that he died from a heart attack and I think I'm starting to hit my 2nd spurt of emotion crap!

Thats great about how your friend reacted! This is another way to disarm someone! When you said previously though what did you ment? Was it still the same school and such?


Mike
Here is the link to the Letting Go thread which is designated for venting
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087

You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog

http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/

NinjaFrodo
Posts: 1263
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am

Post by NinjaFrodo » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:11 am

If you look in the assertiveness thread you will find the feared fantasy thing that I have done with myself about the shame. I do feel better and I hope the example will help people weather that is with mustering up the courage to do it yourself or if it is to help with insights or take another path that will help with the healing.


Mike
Here is the link to the Letting Go thread which is designated for venting
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087

You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog

http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/

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