I'm a Christian and my core beliefs and foundation that I've had for 37yrs has been the same.
Since the program everything has changed. My outlook on alot of things are different. I'm very confused. I was taught to love your neighbor as thyself. To honor your Father and Mother, etc....
Now it's like..."you mean, my opioun matters". "It's okay, to NOT like something". "It's ok, to not want your in-laws over"....or is it??
I always thought...that was selfious or that I was not being a kind and loving person if I thought that way.
I have been struggling with this for at least 6 months now. I just don't know if what I feel is normal or okay. Does anybody else feel like this? I feel very selfiuos for feeling this way. I really need some advice....help!
My beliefs and this Program
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karenLeigh
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 3:35 pm
i was just going to bed for tonight - it's been a rough day for me church was cancelled cause of snow - but anyway something i have thought about since the program is the verse love your neighbor as yourself - if you put as much energy into loving your neighbor and yourself wont both you and your neighbor be better for it. it's a thought i had that i'm glad reminded me of this evening - haven't been feeling much love for myself and in that state it sure is hard to do much better for my neighbor
Hi KarenLeigh,
I just wanted to share with you that I completely understand your new state of confusion. This is going to be long because I have a big mouth, and I care so much about this topic:) so I hope I don't cause you "eye strain".
About 9 years ago, my son was diagnosed with severe autism, I had a number of traumatic events, and it was hell, but it was also an opportunity for me to examine my "false beliefs" about God that were actually hurting me and my relationship with Him. I have done a lot of work in those past years, and I don't pretend to have it all figured out, but I am less confused:).
Before my experiences, I believed in a simple interpretation of the scriptures. I didn't realize how important discernment was, and I never considered the motives of the Christian person or pastor that was giving a sermon. For example, is it completely beyond reason that a pastor could misuse scripture about tithing in order to get more money for himself? Is it completely impossible that someone could misinterpret scripture to control you for their own selfish purposes? I'm not encouraging paranoia, but I am emphasizing that being confused about God and the Bible can have a huge impact on your life. He does want us to have discernment:), and that does include having discernment about Christians and within our church. I just want to say that in the past, I did believe that "Honor thy mother and thy father" meant that I should let my mother and father treat me anyway they wished as an adult. I did believe that "love your enemies" meant that when I was a senior in high school, that I should let my boyfriend emotionally abuse me. I was very wrong. Also, my father was a violent man. When we are children, we often assume that our parents represent God. If they are dysfunctional or violent and don't love us unconditionally, we will then interpret God as being the same way. Although what I went through was so horrible, I am thankful that I learned that God is not the same as my abusive father. It's a new world for me, and I will admit that I do still struggle with false beliefs about God sometimes. It's a big issue, but I do think I'm better.
One of the main issues that is occuring with you and your spirituality is in regards to boundaries. I highly recommened the book "Boundaries" written by Henry Cloud. He is a Christian psychologist, and he does an excellent job of applying Jesus's teachings to implementing boundaries. He shows that Jesus had boundaries in his relationships with others. For example, Jesus didn't heal everyone that asked him to all of the time or at the exact time they asked him to do it. He had boundaries and limits to take care of his human body and soul. He also has a parable about giving to others in which he says to "let your yes be yes and your no be no." In other words he is saying not to say yes to someone in giving, etc. when your heart really says no. It's better not to commit to something you don't want to do then to say yes and not do it or not want to really do it. You most certainly have to set limits to take care of yourself in your relationships with others. When you love and take care of yourself properly, it is only then that you can love your neighbor properly as the above poster advised. It says, "love your neighbor as your self", and it doesn't say, "love your neighbor instead of yourself." If you don't love yourself, then you won't love your neighbor as yourself because you don't love yourself so loving them isn't going to be very much:).
When reading the scripture, it's important to understand the context of the scripture to understand the complete meaning. For example, I also recommend the book, "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse". It's a great book that explains the real meaning about a lot of scripture that is often misused and misinterpreted. One great thing I learned from the book was in regards to many of Jesus's parables. The author points out that when Jesus came, the Pharisees, his disciples, and others spent a lot of time asking him specific questions about the law. He was there, but they were still focused on the law. Jesus had come to fulfill the law. He was to be our salvation, and when we accepted Him as our means of salvation, we were no longer to be legalistic regarding the law. So, the author shows that when these people would ask him about the law, he would often interpret the law as being unreachable by human performance. For example, in regards to forgiveness. There was Jewish law regarding that you forgive your brother three times for his sin(I think:)), but after that, following certain guidelines, you could cut him off. I think it was Peter who then thought if three times was good then perhaps seven times was even better. He was trying to improve the law with his human performance and please God by performing the law. Jesus then said, "If your brother sins, confront him. If he repents forgive him", and then suggests that we do this a hundred times a hundred times. What Jesus was showing with this teaching is that the ability to forgive apart from God is beyond human performance. It's not that you should let someone abuse you over a gazillion times and then forgive them, it's that you can't forgive someone for their evil against you without God's help and guidance. There's also so much more to that regarding boundaries, repentance, and if forgiveness means reconciliation, etc. I hope that makes some sense:). Jesus wanted them to understand that he was "the way, the truth, and the life", and that following the law was no longer the way to gain salvation and please God. The heart and relationsip with Him was what mattered. I want to emphasize that Jesus ofcourse wants us to refrain from evil acts, etc. However, if we have a good relationship with him based on his love for us, we will then act out of that love. When we accept him as our savior, we have already received His love and grace. We are no longer required to follow a law of self-righteousness and human performance to gain something we already have. We are then to act out of his love for us and out of what is honestly in our hearts. If we are constantly doing evil acts, then our actions are just revealing what is in our hearts, and it's our hearts that need healing.
I'll also be honest with you about a family situation. I am the mother of a child who has severe autism. My father in law is a prominent baptist preacher. My in-law's do not respect our marriage, and they look down on our son because he has a disability. We do want to "honor" them, but at the same time, honoring your parents means different things at different times of your life. Throughout these years, I have tried a number of ways for them to have a relationship with us and our son with limits that protects our marriage and our son. They have been extremely offended by those limits, and unless they have 100% control, they don't "really" want a relationship. When we have gone to visit, after them telling other people that they really want to see him, and then they make fun of him or ignore him with their actions during the visit, I learned that I had done what I could to honor them, but that they refused the opportunity, not me. I would no longer subject my son to their rejection in the name of "honoring" them or to impress their misguided church members and other family members. It doesn't help them, even if it helps their image, and it doesn't help my son. As a child, you are to obey your parents, but as a married adult, you are to have an adult to adult relationship with your parents. In addition, the "leave and cleave" commandment from God for the benefit of your marriage takes precedence over "honoring" your parents. Your parents are never to be "God" in your life when you are an adult, and if their presence or control is so much that it hurts your marriage, then you have to set limits and boundaries. Even if it's a good relationship which I hope it is, you have to set boundaries. "Good fences, make good neighbors". It makes no sense to destroy a marriage or have it end in divorce in the name of "honoring" your parents. Why would God want that? There's just more to the story then the "surface" meaning of honoring your parents. It means different things for different people at different times and stages of life. If my in-laws become sick, penniless, and have no help from their church, my husband and I will most certainly make arrangements for them to help them no matter how they have treated us. However, I will be realistic about that help. I would hire a nurse or put them in a good nursing home, and I will not be the one to give them one on one care. It's O.K. to set limits and boundaries when honoring your parents and to be flexibile in deciding what is really honoring for your personal situation.
Anyway, we have been through a lot with my in-laws who insist that my husband is sinning because he chooses me and our son as a priority over his parents. His parents want my husband to remain in his childhood role in their family, and it's not what God wants. I want to emphasize that God does want us all to have a relationship, but it's my in-law's who aren't listening to God to make it work out healthily. It got to a point where they were making fun of our son so much to me, that I had to draw the line of "no contact" for my own sanity and to protect my son. The image that they put out to their church and other family members is not the truth. Anyway, my husband finally made the same decision because they were stressing him out so badly when he was taking care of us and our son. He told them that he would be in touch, but they completely disregard his limits. His brother, just last week sent my husband an e-mail saying, "Something to Ponder" and it listed Matthew 15. In this scripture, the Pharisees are confronting Jesus about how he's not following the law properly. Jesus then says, "Well, you are not honoring your parents. The law says that you aren't to speak evil of your parents and if you do that you should be condemned to death. But you say that you don't have to take care of your parents because you are giving what can help them to God. You changed the law." Jesus isn't necessarily telling them that they are condemned to death for not honoring their parents. He's saying that they are trying to call him out for altering the law to prove that he's not the Son of God, but they are doing the same thing for their own selfish motives regardin the law. For example, they weren't giving to their parents to help them in their old age, and they were very public about it saying that it was because they were giving to God. The Pharisees were trying to draw attention to themselves as being holier than thou...so Holy that they weren't helping their parents but instead giving to God. It was just this real public act to draw attention to their self-righteousness. It's about their hypocracy. He's talking to the "ministers" for their hypocracy, and not my husband and I who are married and raising a child with autism! This happened a lot in the Bible. In Malachi, when it says, "You have robbed God with tithes and offerings", God is talking to the priests. However, ministers often misuse this scripture to make their members give out of fear that they are robbing God. It's definitely worth studying to find out the truth for yourself:). Who Jesus is talking to in his parables and exactly what he means is important to know before making life decisions:).
Do you think my brother in law meant it that way I am describing? No. My husband is setting limits that he wishes he didn't have to set to protect himself, me, and our son from additional stress. My husband is successful in his career. He's just a really great person, and He has every assurance from God that his marriage and his son are his priorities over the wishes of his parents. My husband's life reflects Jesus more than my brother in law's does. His brother, who is past thirty and still financially dependent on his parents(which could be viewed as dishonoring if you are taking their money when you should be able to take care of yourself as an adult), and who is divorced after three years because he let his parents interfere in his marriage, and his brother has also been involved in drugs and had DUI's-been to prison and rehab, took it upon himself to misuse scripture to try to manipulate my husband. Understand that this situation was our last resort and option after setting a number of boundaries that they violated. Their sin is what is causing this situation and not ours. Notice I've said this twice because it really is such a sad situation that I do struggle with at times.
So, I know you are confused right now, but that's not a bad thing because perhaps you are going to change a faulty perception about God and you will learn new interpretations of scripture that are more truthful. Please seek out Christian sources, and ask God to work with you to clarify the meaning of scriptures. Learn what "love" really means. For example, love doesn't mean that you have no limits. I don't know if you are a parent or not, but when you are parent who truly loves your child you will set limits. For example, you will not let your child eat only sugar and not brush their teeth at night. Setting limits with the child is actually a sign that you love them. It's the same in your relationships with others. If your in-laws are at your house every night and heavily involved in your marriage, are you really loving them? Perhaps this is a new time in their lives when God wants them to spend their time and energy doing something else for Him as "empty nesters". Letting them be too involved in your life would mean that you weren't letting them have that opportunity. Love means setting limits, and doesn't mean you always say yes. You can also set limits in a firm but loving way. A simple "No" with a smile on your face really does go a long way.
I hope that something I said helps you in some way. I have a list of books that have helped me. I have a list of Christian authors and psychologists that I have studied if you are interested in further study. Books that I'll mention now are "The Search for Significance" and "Toxic Faith". I haven't read it yet, but I think I'm going to read the book, "Rewriting Your Emotional Script". I heard the author speak on middayconnection.org, and she spends a lot of time explaining certain scriptures that are often misused and misinterpreted. I do also recommend that you visit middayconnection.org It's a Christian radio show that can be listened to online, that comes on at noon during the week. However, you can also listen to their archived shows whenever you want:). I've really grown in my understanding from the authors presented on this show. Now, I'm less confused:).
Take care,
luvpiggy
I just wanted to share with you that I completely understand your new state of confusion. This is going to be long because I have a big mouth, and I care so much about this topic:) so I hope I don't cause you "eye strain".
About 9 years ago, my son was diagnosed with severe autism, I had a number of traumatic events, and it was hell, but it was also an opportunity for me to examine my "false beliefs" about God that were actually hurting me and my relationship with Him. I have done a lot of work in those past years, and I don't pretend to have it all figured out, but I am less confused:).
Before my experiences, I believed in a simple interpretation of the scriptures. I didn't realize how important discernment was, and I never considered the motives of the Christian person or pastor that was giving a sermon. For example, is it completely beyond reason that a pastor could misuse scripture about tithing in order to get more money for himself? Is it completely impossible that someone could misinterpret scripture to control you for their own selfish purposes? I'm not encouraging paranoia, but I am emphasizing that being confused about God and the Bible can have a huge impact on your life. He does want us to have discernment:), and that does include having discernment about Christians and within our church. I just want to say that in the past, I did believe that "Honor thy mother and thy father" meant that I should let my mother and father treat me anyway they wished as an adult. I did believe that "love your enemies" meant that when I was a senior in high school, that I should let my boyfriend emotionally abuse me. I was very wrong. Also, my father was a violent man. When we are children, we often assume that our parents represent God. If they are dysfunctional or violent and don't love us unconditionally, we will then interpret God as being the same way. Although what I went through was so horrible, I am thankful that I learned that God is not the same as my abusive father. It's a new world for me, and I will admit that I do still struggle with false beliefs about God sometimes. It's a big issue, but I do think I'm better.
One of the main issues that is occuring with you and your spirituality is in regards to boundaries. I highly recommened the book "Boundaries" written by Henry Cloud. He is a Christian psychologist, and he does an excellent job of applying Jesus's teachings to implementing boundaries. He shows that Jesus had boundaries in his relationships with others. For example, Jesus didn't heal everyone that asked him to all of the time or at the exact time they asked him to do it. He had boundaries and limits to take care of his human body and soul. He also has a parable about giving to others in which he says to "let your yes be yes and your no be no." In other words he is saying not to say yes to someone in giving, etc. when your heart really says no. It's better not to commit to something you don't want to do then to say yes and not do it or not want to really do it. You most certainly have to set limits to take care of yourself in your relationships with others. When you love and take care of yourself properly, it is only then that you can love your neighbor properly as the above poster advised. It says, "love your neighbor as your self", and it doesn't say, "love your neighbor instead of yourself." If you don't love yourself, then you won't love your neighbor as yourself because you don't love yourself so loving them isn't going to be very much:).
When reading the scripture, it's important to understand the context of the scripture to understand the complete meaning. For example, I also recommend the book, "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse". It's a great book that explains the real meaning about a lot of scripture that is often misused and misinterpreted. One great thing I learned from the book was in regards to many of Jesus's parables. The author points out that when Jesus came, the Pharisees, his disciples, and others spent a lot of time asking him specific questions about the law. He was there, but they were still focused on the law. Jesus had come to fulfill the law. He was to be our salvation, and when we accepted Him as our means of salvation, we were no longer to be legalistic regarding the law. So, the author shows that when these people would ask him about the law, he would often interpret the law as being unreachable by human performance. For example, in regards to forgiveness. There was Jewish law regarding that you forgive your brother three times for his sin(I think:)), but after that, following certain guidelines, you could cut him off. I think it was Peter who then thought if three times was good then perhaps seven times was even better. He was trying to improve the law with his human performance and please God by performing the law. Jesus then said, "If your brother sins, confront him. If he repents forgive him", and then suggests that we do this a hundred times a hundred times. What Jesus was showing with this teaching is that the ability to forgive apart from God is beyond human performance. It's not that you should let someone abuse you over a gazillion times and then forgive them, it's that you can't forgive someone for their evil against you without God's help and guidance. There's also so much more to that regarding boundaries, repentance, and if forgiveness means reconciliation, etc. I hope that makes some sense:). Jesus wanted them to understand that he was "the way, the truth, and the life", and that following the law was no longer the way to gain salvation and please God. The heart and relationsip with Him was what mattered. I want to emphasize that Jesus ofcourse wants us to refrain from evil acts, etc. However, if we have a good relationship with him based on his love for us, we will then act out of that love. When we accept him as our savior, we have already received His love and grace. We are no longer required to follow a law of self-righteousness and human performance to gain something we already have. We are then to act out of his love for us and out of what is honestly in our hearts. If we are constantly doing evil acts, then our actions are just revealing what is in our hearts, and it's our hearts that need healing.
I'll also be honest with you about a family situation. I am the mother of a child who has severe autism. My father in law is a prominent baptist preacher. My in-law's do not respect our marriage, and they look down on our son because he has a disability. We do want to "honor" them, but at the same time, honoring your parents means different things at different times of your life. Throughout these years, I have tried a number of ways for them to have a relationship with us and our son with limits that protects our marriage and our son. They have been extremely offended by those limits, and unless they have 100% control, they don't "really" want a relationship. When we have gone to visit, after them telling other people that they really want to see him, and then they make fun of him or ignore him with their actions during the visit, I learned that I had done what I could to honor them, but that they refused the opportunity, not me. I would no longer subject my son to their rejection in the name of "honoring" them or to impress their misguided church members and other family members. It doesn't help them, even if it helps their image, and it doesn't help my son. As a child, you are to obey your parents, but as a married adult, you are to have an adult to adult relationship with your parents. In addition, the "leave and cleave" commandment from God for the benefit of your marriage takes precedence over "honoring" your parents. Your parents are never to be "God" in your life when you are an adult, and if their presence or control is so much that it hurts your marriage, then you have to set limits and boundaries. Even if it's a good relationship which I hope it is, you have to set boundaries. "Good fences, make good neighbors". It makes no sense to destroy a marriage or have it end in divorce in the name of "honoring" your parents. Why would God want that? There's just more to the story then the "surface" meaning of honoring your parents. It means different things for different people at different times and stages of life. If my in-laws become sick, penniless, and have no help from their church, my husband and I will most certainly make arrangements for them to help them no matter how they have treated us. However, I will be realistic about that help. I would hire a nurse or put them in a good nursing home, and I will not be the one to give them one on one care. It's O.K. to set limits and boundaries when honoring your parents and to be flexibile in deciding what is really honoring for your personal situation.
Anyway, we have been through a lot with my in-laws who insist that my husband is sinning because he chooses me and our son as a priority over his parents. His parents want my husband to remain in his childhood role in their family, and it's not what God wants. I want to emphasize that God does want us all to have a relationship, but it's my in-law's who aren't listening to God to make it work out healthily. It got to a point where they were making fun of our son so much to me, that I had to draw the line of "no contact" for my own sanity and to protect my son. The image that they put out to their church and other family members is not the truth. Anyway, my husband finally made the same decision because they were stressing him out so badly when he was taking care of us and our son. He told them that he would be in touch, but they completely disregard his limits. His brother, just last week sent my husband an e-mail saying, "Something to Ponder" and it listed Matthew 15. In this scripture, the Pharisees are confronting Jesus about how he's not following the law properly. Jesus then says, "Well, you are not honoring your parents. The law says that you aren't to speak evil of your parents and if you do that you should be condemned to death. But you say that you don't have to take care of your parents because you are giving what can help them to God. You changed the law." Jesus isn't necessarily telling them that they are condemned to death for not honoring their parents. He's saying that they are trying to call him out for altering the law to prove that he's not the Son of God, but they are doing the same thing for their own selfish motives regardin the law. For example, they weren't giving to their parents to help them in their old age, and they were very public about it saying that it was because they were giving to God. The Pharisees were trying to draw attention to themselves as being holier than thou...so Holy that they weren't helping their parents but instead giving to God. It was just this real public act to draw attention to their self-righteousness. It's about their hypocracy. He's talking to the "ministers" for their hypocracy, and not my husband and I who are married and raising a child with autism! This happened a lot in the Bible. In Malachi, when it says, "You have robbed God with tithes and offerings", God is talking to the priests. However, ministers often misuse this scripture to make their members give out of fear that they are robbing God. It's definitely worth studying to find out the truth for yourself:). Who Jesus is talking to in his parables and exactly what he means is important to know before making life decisions:).
Do you think my brother in law meant it that way I am describing? No. My husband is setting limits that he wishes he didn't have to set to protect himself, me, and our son from additional stress. My husband is successful in his career. He's just a really great person, and He has every assurance from God that his marriage and his son are his priorities over the wishes of his parents. My husband's life reflects Jesus more than my brother in law's does. His brother, who is past thirty and still financially dependent on his parents(which could be viewed as dishonoring if you are taking their money when you should be able to take care of yourself as an adult), and who is divorced after three years because he let his parents interfere in his marriage, and his brother has also been involved in drugs and had DUI's-been to prison and rehab, took it upon himself to misuse scripture to try to manipulate my husband. Understand that this situation was our last resort and option after setting a number of boundaries that they violated. Their sin is what is causing this situation and not ours. Notice I've said this twice because it really is such a sad situation that I do struggle with at times.
So, I know you are confused right now, but that's not a bad thing because perhaps you are going to change a faulty perception about God and you will learn new interpretations of scripture that are more truthful. Please seek out Christian sources, and ask God to work with you to clarify the meaning of scriptures. Learn what "love" really means. For example, love doesn't mean that you have no limits. I don't know if you are a parent or not, but when you are parent who truly loves your child you will set limits. For example, you will not let your child eat only sugar and not brush their teeth at night. Setting limits with the child is actually a sign that you love them. It's the same in your relationships with others. If your in-laws are at your house every night and heavily involved in your marriage, are you really loving them? Perhaps this is a new time in their lives when God wants them to spend their time and energy doing something else for Him as "empty nesters". Letting them be too involved in your life would mean that you weren't letting them have that opportunity. Love means setting limits, and doesn't mean you always say yes. You can also set limits in a firm but loving way. A simple "No" with a smile on your face really does go a long way.
I hope that something I said helps you in some way. I have a list of books that have helped me. I have a list of Christian authors and psychologists that I have studied if you are interested in further study. Books that I'll mention now are "The Search for Significance" and "Toxic Faith". I haven't read it yet, but I think I'm going to read the book, "Rewriting Your Emotional Script". I heard the author speak on middayconnection.org, and she spends a lot of time explaining certain scriptures that are often misused and misinterpreted. I do also recommend that you visit middayconnection.org It's a Christian radio show that can be listened to online, that comes on at noon during the week. However, you can also listen to their archived shows whenever you want:). I've really grown in my understanding from the authors presented on this show. Now, I'm less confused:).
Take care,
luvpiggy