As many of you know i have really overcome alot within the last few months. God has led me to this program and it has helped tranform my life, Thank God.
Now I have a question of faith and spirituality that I need a little help with. I have grown up Catholic and lived my life Catholic. Always went to Church, especially in the past because with my anxiety, I was always fearful God was "going to get me" bacause of my anxiety and I wasn't a good enough Christain/ Catholic. Alot of what Carolyn says on one of the tapes, "I had a religion not a faith".
I used to watch a teleevalangist on Tv, Joel osteen, which began to help me see as I went through the program program, that God is a loving God not a vengeful God, out to 'get me". I stopped watching him and started watching Joyce meyer , as several on the forums had recommended her.
There was something about her and her past that I could really relate to.
I began to really want to have a personal relationship with God/Christ/Holy Spirit. I no longer see God "as a God who is out to get me". I really want to have a relationship with God and see Christ as my Savior and friend. It has helped me tremendously to overcome my problems with anxiety and fear. I feel free that God loves me just the way I am, anxiety issues and all and that I am no suprise to Him.
Now I recently went to Church and the priest was saying that Joel Osteen was a false prophet
and we must watch out for false prophets. So I approached my priest after Mass to ask him to explain more about this.
The only thing he could say was Joel was false prophet who teaches "you must give in order to receive." I explained that I used to watch him but I wasn't getting much from watching him anymore. That I enjoy watching Joyce meyers because she is about having a close intimate relationship with Christ and that she has helped me find my faith again.
He said that not all Christian preachers are bad.That there are some good ones out there.
I think maybe I am having a flare-up of all or nothing/black white thinking because I am feeling a bit anxious over this. I really have done well in my life using my skills but I still have some anxious thinking when it comes to faith. I want to make sure I am being a good Christian and Catholic. I love being Catholic but is there anything wrong with wanting more of what the Christian/Protestants teach about wanting a deep initimate relationship with God/Christ/Holy Spirit.
If someone could offer some insight into this i would appreciate it. I feel like I somehow "failing" God and I want to know how to watch out for "false prophets".
I definitely feel much more "peaceful and freer" since I have developed a more personal relationship with God/Christ/Holy Spirit. It has helped me to enjoying my Catholic faith more. I am even getting more involved at Church. I actually enjoy going to Mass now.
If someone has some reflections/thoughts i would love to hear from you.Thank you and God Bless.
Question on faith
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Guest
Your post really hit a note with me. I grew up Catholic and converted to Baptist after I married and when I made the personal discovery that the "religion" that I had was not based on love, but rather fear and guilt. I related to a lot of what Carolyn said on the CDs too.
Now - I watch Joel Osteen a lot (more in the past than now) and I apprecaite his upbeat and positive messages. I don't believe that life is always upbeat and positive, but it's uplifting to be reminded of the things that he preaches about from time to time. I do not believe that he is a false prophet.
My Catholic parents, probably would say that he is though...because he is not Catholic. I don't think that's reason enough, personally, to make such a close-minded and condemning statement.
Here's my take, for what it's worth. The priest said Joel is a false prophet because he preaches that you have to give in orde to receive, right? Catholicism is actually based on the same of a very similar tennant. You have to "give your confession to a priest" in order to receive forgiveness. You have to give up things at Lent in order to receive...what? Spiritual blessing? Self-discipline? The Bible actually says, "Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."
(Luke 6:38) And it also says, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) So even though God tells us that we are blessed when we give, He didn't wait for us to give to bless us.
I think it is awesome that your new skills are helping you enjoy and grow in your relationship with God/Jesus more. It is not a sin to disagree with a priest. You did the right thing in asking him to clarify, and remember, he is just human...he is entitled to opinions and he can make errors the same as the rest of us. Only Jesus was perfect.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a deeper relationship with Christ - that is actually what God created us for!
If it were me...I would take the priest's comments as his opinion. He is a spiritual leader, but he is not walking your spiritual journey. You are the only one who can do that and if you find solid Biblical teaching that inspires and encourages you in Joel or Joyce or in Mass or elsewhere, then let it wash over you and lift you up.
Heaven will not be segregated by denomination or anything else, after all.
God bless,
Dawn
Now - I watch Joel Osteen a lot (more in the past than now) and I apprecaite his upbeat and positive messages. I don't believe that life is always upbeat and positive, but it's uplifting to be reminded of the things that he preaches about from time to time. I do not believe that he is a false prophet.
My Catholic parents, probably would say that he is though...because he is not Catholic. I don't think that's reason enough, personally, to make such a close-minded and condemning statement.
Here's my take, for what it's worth. The priest said Joel is a false prophet because he preaches that you have to give in orde to receive, right? Catholicism is actually based on the same of a very similar tennant. You have to "give your confession to a priest" in order to receive forgiveness. You have to give up things at Lent in order to receive...what? Spiritual blessing? Self-discipline? The Bible actually says, "Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."
(Luke 6:38) And it also says, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) So even though God tells us that we are blessed when we give, He didn't wait for us to give to bless us.
I think it is awesome that your new skills are helping you enjoy and grow in your relationship with God/Jesus more. It is not a sin to disagree with a priest. You did the right thing in asking him to clarify, and remember, he is just human...he is entitled to opinions and he can make errors the same as the rest of us. Only Jesus was perfect.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a deeper relationship with Christ - that is actually what God created us for!
If it were me...I would take the priest's comments as his opinion. He is a spiritual leader, but he is not walking your spiritual journey. You are the only one who can do that and if you find solid Biblical teaching that inspires and encourages you in Joel or Joyce or in Mass or elsewhere, then let it wash over you and lift you up.
Heaven will not be segregated by denomination or anything else, after all.
God bless,
Dawn
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Guest
Hello bna
Sorry that you are having a little anxiety over this. Religion, Spiritual Journeys, Personal Paths, Christian Walks, whatever they are called these days have a lot of twists and turns that can cause anxiety and cause us to question. Let me start off saying that it is "OK" to ask questions.
I am not Catholic, but my husband's family is. I too have heard Catholics say stuff about Joel Osteen. They see him as New Age: mixing Sacred Religion with The Power of Intentions; which should actually be a concern for any Christian Faith. This is why we search, question, and study, and spend time in prayer on our own and not take one person’s opinion on something. Calling Osteen a false prophet is a little harsh. There are thousands who have turned their lives over to Christ with Osteen's guidance. Anything that leads to Christ can not be false.
I have also watched Joel Osteen. I personally am not impressed. But I can see the attraction. He is very positive and up beat in a world that is so full of sadness these days. He talks a lot about receiving all these blessings. I personally think the "concern" is that people see Blessings as a "visual" thing. For example: a happy life, no worries or anxiety, life with a perfect mate, good job, big house, and lots of money, etc. I am sure Christ blesses some with that kind of stuff, but most of the blessings mentioned in the Bible are of Spiritual things. Blessings of Revelations, Prophecy, Knowledge of Scriptures, getting closer and knowing Christ more, and/or of being able to hear what God is telling us. Blessings come in many forms and most are unseen.
Another concern is that when a person comes to Christ because they are told and believe that life will be so much better and everything will be “happy-go-lucky” with Jesus (positive thinking overload) and then when something bad happens in the reality of life, that person takes it personally thinking they did not have enough Faith or they are not good enough, etc, which causes major anxiety/stress in the Christian life. And in some cases, turn from God completely. (This is Toxic Faith which will mentally cripple a person. Been there - done that - taken me years to get over it.) And on that note....being scared into Christianity with the fear of condemnation of hell, fire and brimstone, and being struck by lightening is not much better.
Take a deeper look at what Christianity is. It is very simple. Christian. Christ. If you have Christ in your life you are a Christian. There is no such thing as a good Christian or a bad Christian. You are either a Christian or you are not one. It is not based on behavior, rules, or regulations. There is not a correct or only one true denomination (they all serve a purpose in the body of Christ.) It is not about us. It is about Jesus Christ. We are either for Him or we are against Him. (That Simple.) Christianity is a WITNESS. When we say we are a "Christian", we are saying that we BELIEVE, without a doubt, that Jesus is who He says He is. Period. Jesus is the ONE who needs to be confirmed by our testimony (even when life totally sucks at times) that HE is all GOOD and all LOVING. We have already been cleansed by His blood on the Cross. Our Christian walk is not to prove ourselves, because we will kill ourselves trying so hard. We are just humans. We mess up. We make mistakes. We stumble. Our walk is to bear witness that Christ is all in all LOVE.
That is my two cents. And you already have one major blessing. You said you feel much more peaceful and freer. You can’t have a much better blessing than “inner Peace.” A blessing of knowing even when times are bad or we are depressed or anxious, Christ will NEVER forsake us.
P.S. Joyce Meyers rocks. She is a huge blessing in this world.
Here is a link to a post I did about Toxic Faith awhile back.
http://bbs.stresscenter.com/ev...171007014#6171007014
Sorry that you are having a little anxiety over this. Religion, Spiritual Journeys, Personal Paths, Christian Walks, whatever they are called these days have a lot of twists and turns that can cause anxiety and cause us to question. Let me start off saying that it is "OK" to ask questions.
I am not Catholic, but my husband's family is. I too have heard Catholics say stuff about Joel Osteen. They see him as New Age: mixing Sacred Religion with The Power of Intentions; which should actually be a concern for any Christian Faith. This is why we search, question, and study, and spend time in prayer on our own and not take one person’s opinion on something. Calling Osteen a false prophet is a little harsh. There are thousands who have turned their lives over to Christ with Osteen's guidance. Anything that leads to Christ can not be false.
I have also watched Joel Osteen. I personally am not impressed. But I can see the attraction. He is very positive and up beat in a world that is so full of sadness these days. He talks a lot about receiving all these blessings. I personally think the "concern" is that people see Blessings as a "visual" thing. For example: a happy life, no worries or anxiety, life with a perfect mate, good job, big house, and lots of money, etc. I am sure Christ blesses some with that kind of stuff, but most of the blessings mentioned in the Bible are of Spiritual things. Blessings of Revelations, Prophecy, Knowledge of Scriptures, getting closer and knowing Christ more, and/or of being able to hear what God is telling us. Blessings come in many forms and most are unseen.
Another concern is that when a person comes to Christ because they are told and believe that life will be so much better and everything will be “happy-go-lucky” with Jesus (positive thinking overload) and then when something bad happens in the reality of life, that person takes it personally thinking they did not have enough Faith or they are not good enough, etc, which causes major anxiety/stress in the Christian life. And in some cases, turn from God completely. (This is Toxic Faith which will mentally cripple a person. Been there - done that - taken me years to get over it.) And on that note....being scared into Christianity with the fear of condemnation of hell, fire and brimstone, and being struck by lightening is not much better.
Take a deeper look at what Christianity is. It is very simple. Christian. Christ. If you have Christ in your life you are a Christian. There is no such thing as a good Christian or a bad Christian. You are either a Christian or you are not one. It is not based on behavior, rules, or regulations. There is not a correct or only one true denomination (they all serve a purpose in the body of Christ.) It is not about us. It is about Jesus Christ. We are either for Him or we are against Him. (That Simple.) Christianity is a WITNESS. When we say we are a "Christian", we are saying that we BELIEVE, without a doubt, that Jesus is who He says He is. Period. Jesus is the ONE who needs to be confirmed by our testimony (even when life totally sucks at times) that HE is all GOOD and all LOVING. We have already been cleansed by His blood on the Cross. Our Christian walk is not to prove ourselves, because we will kill ourselves trying so hard. We are just humans. We mess up. We make mistakes. We stumble. Our walk is to bear witness that Christ is all in all LOVE.
That is my two cents. And you already have one major blessing. You said you feel much more peaceful and freer. You can’t have a much better blessing than “inner Peace.” A blessing of knowing even when times are bad or we are depressed or anxious, Christ will NEVER forsake us.
P.S. Joyce Meyers rocks. She is a huge blessing in this world.
Here is a link to a post I did about Toxic Faith awhile back.
http://bbs.stresscenter.com/ev...171007014#6171007014
Last edited by Conner on Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
Dawn and Conner thank you so much for your thought provoking responses. I really appreciate you both taking the time to respond to my post.
I really have to say that i gave it much thought after posting it yesterday. I also came to the conclusion, that listening to both Joel and Joyce helped me reawaken my journey of faith in God/Jesus.
I know that I really do want a relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, not a religion. I can honestly say since relinquishing my attempt to control the whole world and everything in itand allowing God to be in complete and total control of my life, I feel so much better.
I have have such a sense of peace and confidence. I still have some anxiety issues but nothing to what it was before. I no longer have the paralzying fear I used to have in the past or those awful panic attacks. I know no matter what life throws at me, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
I know i sound like a broken record, but the skills I have learned in this program and my faith in God, have completely transformed my life, thank God.
So once agin, thanks for taking the time to respond. Take care and God Bless.
I really have to say that i gave it much thought after posting it yesterday. I also came to the conclusion, that listening to both Joel and Joyce helped me reawaken my journey of faith in God/Jesus.
I know that I really do want a relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, not a religion. I can honestly say since relinquishing my attempt to control the whole world and everything in itand allowing God to be in complete and total control of my life, I feel so much better.
I have have such a sense of peace and confidence. I still have some anxiety issues but nothing to what it was before. I no longer have the paralzying fear I used to have in the past or those awful panic attacks. I know no matter what life throws at me, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
I know i sound like a broken record, but the skills I have learned in this program and my faith in God, have completely transformed my life, thank God.
So once agin, thanks for taking the time to respond. Take care and God Bless.
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Guest
Hi Everyone,
I have been reading through some of your replies and as well as the original question by bna!!! I found them very insightful and inspiring!!!
I think it is very helpful to read "How To Handle Fear"....I posted it on the "Spirituality Section" of this forum, and it has helped me tremendously!!! I have learned that trusting in the One Who Lives Within Us, to be sooo very helpful!!!
I pray all of you check out the site and study it...God Bless..
I have been reading through some of your replies and as well as the original question by bna!!! I found them very insightful and inspiring!!!
I think it is very helpful to read "How To Handle Fear"....I posted it on the "Spirituality Section" of this forum, and it has helped me tremendously!!! I have learned that trusting in the One Who Lives Within Us, to be sooo very helpful!!!
I pray all of you check out the site and study it...God Bless..
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Guest
Joel Osteen has wide appeal because he has a soft, feel good message, but it does not concentrate on the Gospel and keeps people focused on their feelings about themselves and what God can give them, instead of on Christ alone and what He has done for us. I have not heard him Osteen referred to as a prophet--false or otherwise. The main thing to remember is that it is not about us--it is all about Christ. The Gospel is very basic: All of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death. All of us have sinned and even one sin would condemn us. That is why He came to be our Savior. Only a perfect man could provide the sacrifice to remove our sin (not cover it--remove it). If we could be "good enough" on our own to "earn" salvation, Christ would not have had to come. If a priest could remove your sin, or baptism could remove your sin, or anything else could remove your sin, including good works, Christ would not have had to come. His sacrifice occurred before you were born and was complete for the remission of all sin past, present, and future--if you trust in Him alone--not in yourself or in a priest or in Mary, or in saints, or any works that you do--His blood is sufficient to cleanse you from all unrighteousness. After all, the Bible says our own righteousness is as filthy rags. Christ's righteousness is the only righteousness God recognizes, so we must accept His sacrifice as payment for our sin in order for God to see us through Christ instead of as we are. Christ is the good and perfect shepherd--He keeps you and will not lose you. Again, if anything or anyone else could have removed your sins and provided salvation, Christ would not have had to die on the Cross. The devil is the author of confusion--if he keeps us busy worrying about being "good enough" (which will lead to more worry because we're not and never could be), we are distracted from the basic Truth--Christ's all-sufficient sacrifice on our behalf. This distraction interferes with our ability to focus on Christ instead of ourselves. We can become focused on church rituals or believe that salvation is through a particular church institution or ritual--but again, if salvation could come by any other means, Christ would not have had to come into the world to suffer and die for our sins--once, never to be repeated (including in a mass) according to the Bible. This is why Osteen's message may not be entirely harmless, and how praying in vain repetition (rosary-a pagan practice adopted by the Roman Church) is the opposite of what the Bible teaches. Even Catholic sites admit how it came to be incorporated--and with no apology for its pagan origins and intent for elevating Mary to position of intercessor:
http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/rosary/rosary.html
The Bible declares only Christ is intercessor, so I believe Mary would consider this practice to be blasphemy, as well as the practice of praying to "saints" (the Bible says saints are all true believers, not a man-made position, as is held in the Roman church--God is no respecter of persons). Mary was a blessed woman who would never distract us from Christ's complete and all-sufficient work. Unfortunately, the early Roman Church instituted many pagan practices, rituals, and belief systems, worried about the consequences would be for Church if people could read the Bible for themselves and learned that salvation was free (early bans on translation, then forbidding laymen from owning/reading Bible for themselves until 1924) and learned that salvation was FREE and that Christ replaced the priesthood as our intercessor. The Catholic Church also has serious flaws in its belief about sin, which has also led to anxiety in many. A good explanation is given here;
http://www.gotquestions.org/mortal-sin-venial.html
The Truth, praise God, sets us free.
http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/rosary/rosary.html
The Bible declares only Christ is intercessor, so I believe Mary would consider this practice to be blasphemy, as well as the practice of praying to "saints" (the Bible says saints are all true believers, not a man-made position, as is held in the Roman church--God is no respecter of persons). Mary was a blessed woman who would never distract us from Christ's complete and all-sufficient work. Unfortunately, the early Roman Church instituted many pagan practices, rituals, and belief systems, worried about the consequences would be for Church if people could read the Bible for themselves and learned that salvation was free (early bans on translation, then forbidding laymen from owning/reading Bible for themselves until 1924) and learned that salvation was FREE and that Christ replaced the priesthood as our intercessor. The Catholic Church also has serious flaws in its belief about sin, which has also led to anxiety in many. A good explanation is given here;
http://www.gotquestions.org/mortal-sin-venial.html
The Truth, praise God, sets us free.
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Guest
I became a "renewed" Christian in 1974 having been a practicing Catholic. i stayed in the church until The lord directed me to a "spirit filled" community that has helped me to grow. As far as Joel Osteen, i believe he teaches a way to God that bypasses the Blood atonement of Christ that cover all of our sins and focuses on a prosperity doctrine. God doesn't promise to fulfill all our greed but will supply our needs. The desciples came to Christ and suffered for it. The Bible says through much tribulation shall you enter the Kingdom of Heaven. To put it simply God loves you so much he sent his Son to cover all of our failures, yours and mine. I don't hear Joel mention Jesus' name too much in his sermons. When we "take up His cross" as the Apostle Paul did everythibng doesn't always come up roses. As a Christian we shouldn't expect that we should be wealthly although he does bless some with that because he know they will use it to do good in this world. Being wealthly and having it all is not a sign of christian maturity. I'm sorry Im going on so much but i believe that God is not someone we can order around and get whatever we want. I have faith that God does miraculous things today. We prayed for our granddaughter to live but it was not His will. She died at 16 of brain cancer. I ho[pe i have not offended you by going on and on. I am a women's ministry leader and I prepare monthly lessons. Love in Christ.