Hi,
I am dealing with some thoughts that seem to keep reocurring and I can't seem to replace them with positives becasue I feel that God might be telling me to quit hunting and fishing and all the things that have brought me joy. I talked with a pastor yesterday and he said that if you don't have inner peace about it then it is the holy spirit telling you to move and change course. well I don't have inner peace about it becasue I have been worried that God is telling me to get rid of all of this stuff and it is making me insane. I look at something that I love to do and I say to myself well I love to do that so it must mean I have to get rid of that too because somehow it is an idol. How do we honestly know if it is God, anxiety or the devil speaking this at us. I believe God is a positive God and wants only the good for his children,and I know I should follow him and not question but this seems soo hard and I can't tell if I am overreacting or if God is really telling me to get rid of it. Too many negative thoughts with this one. I have been reading positive books and working on my positive replacements but it just keeps coming back, so I wonder if it is God. Any thoughts on how to figure this out?
obsessive thought that will not go away.
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Guest
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Guest
Hi PHILLYKISER,
I don't think God would tell you to quit the things you enjoy. God gave us things that give us pleasure.
I truly enjoy my children and grandchildren. I get pleasure out of watching them, and being with them. It doesn't make them an idol. I also enjoy knitting, cross stitch, etc; I don't think God would say stop doing it.
All good things are from above (which is God). I'm sure God is glad you enjoy it. I get enjoyment out of seeing my children, do what they like to do. Same as I am sure that God gets enjoyment watching us His children enjoy things.
I would say it is anxiety, and some could be the devil. You know the devil, comes to kill, steal, and destroy.
I thought about what you said, you talk to a Pastor yesterday, he told you " if you don't have inner peace about it then it is the Holy Spirit telling you to move on and change course". There have been time, I haven't had the peace about my marriage, but I'm sure it wasn't the Holy Spirit telling me to move and change course.
I feel the reason, you don't have the inner peace about it, is because you keep thinking about it.
I had a lady tell me years ago, "that some people are so heaven bound, they are no earthly good, and some are so earth bound, they are no heavenly good". That we have to have a balance. We have to spend time with God, plus have time for things that bring us pleasure.
Just remember God gave us things to enjoy. I'm sure your church has get together's, have meals together, etc:, that is for pleasure.
I would say, give yourself a break, counter the negative, with a positive.
Sunshine1960
I don't think God would tell you to quit the things you enjoy. God gave us things that give us pleasure.
I truly enjoy my children and grandchildren. I get pleasure out of watching them, and being with them. It doesn't make them an idol. I also enjoy knitting, cross stitch, etc; I don't think God would say stop doing it.
All good things are from above (which is God). I'm sure God is glad you enjoy it. I get enjoyment out of seeing my children, do what they like to do. Same as I am sure that God gets enjoyment watching us His children enjoy things.
I would say it is anxiety, and some could be the devil. You know the devil, comes to kill, steal, and destroy.
I thought about what you said, you talk to a Pastor yesterday, he told you " if you don't have inner peace about it then it is the Holy Spirit telling you to move on and change course". There have been time, I haven't had the peace about my marriage, but I'm sure it wasn't the Holy Spirit telling me to move and change course.
I feel the reason, you don't have the inner peace about it, is because you keep thinking about it.
I had a lady tell me years ago, "that some people are so heaven bound, they are no earthly good, and some are so earth bound, they are no heavenly good". That we have to have a balance. We have to spend time with God, plus have time for things that bring us pleasure.
Just remember God gave us things to enjoy. I'm sure your church has get together's, have meals together, etc:, that is for pleasure.
I would say, give yourself a break, counter the negative, with a positive.
Sunshine1960
I haven't read anywhere in the Bible where hunting or fishing is a sin. I believe as long as we put God first, then, He wants us to have clean fun. He wants us to be happy and enjoy our lives. Think about it. Jesus loves us more than we do our own children, and that is really hard to imagine. Would we want our children to be happy??? How much more so does our Heavenly Father want us to enjoy our lives? I think we should acknowledge Him in all that we do. He said if we would that He would direct our paths. He is faithful and loving. I am sure God wants all of his children to live a happy, peaceful, fulfilled life. God's love is a perfect love!!!! God Bless
Hello PHILLYKISER,
From reading your post the idea of surrender came to my mind. I thought that I would just share a quote from a book on surrender.
"When we yield perfectly to the Lord's will for our lives, without protest or complaint, we will find perfect peace. Nothing in this world will be able to disturb it. This is the sure result of surrender. We suffer so much heartache and pain because we choose not to surrender or we neglect to surrender ouselves and our desires to the Lord. Now, most of us already know that the Lord promises peace if we come to Him in humble submissiveness, but why is it we don't do it?
'"But many who profess to be His followers have an anxious, troubled heart, because they are afraid to trust themselves with God...Unless they do make this surrender, they cannot find peace."'
We do not make the choice to surender because we are afraid to trust God. This is exactly why Adam and Eve chose not to surrender. They, too, were afraid to trust themselves with God. But why are we afraid of God? Is there any good reason? The answer to that question is no, there is no good reason. But there is a reason. It's the same reason that Eve was afraid to trust Him. The reason is that we, like Eve, too often believe the lies Satan tells us about God, instead of believintg what God says about Himself in His Word.
These lies are brought out in Genesis 3:1-5. In essence, Satan says that if you surrender to God's authority, you will (1) miss out on a better and happier existence("your eyes shall be opened" [verse 5]); (2) not be in control of your life ("ye shall be as gods" [verse 5]); and (3) limit your personal growth ("you shall not eat of every tree?" [verse 1]). These lies make us afraid to trust God, and this makes surrender impossible."
May God richly bless you as you work with Him through all your struggles.
"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfedct in love. We love him, because he firt loved us."--1John 4: 16-19.
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."--Proverbs 3:5,6.
From reading your post the idea of surrender came to my mind. I thought that I would just share a quote from a book on surrender.
"When we yield perfectly to the Lord's will for our lives, without protest or complaint, we will find perfect peace. Nothing in this world will be able to disturb it. This is the sure result of surrender. We suffer so much heartache and pain because we choose not to surrender or we neglect to surrender ouselves and our desires to the Lord. Now, most of us already know that the Lord promises peace if we come to Him in humble submissiveness, but why is it we don't do it?
'"But many who profess to be His followers have an anxious, troubled heart, because they are afraid to trust themselves with God...Unless they do make this surrender, they cannot find peace."'
We do not make the choice to surender because we are afraid to trust God. This is exactly why Adam and Eve chose not to surrender. They, too, were afraid to trust themselves with God. But why are we afraid of God? Is there any good reason? The answer to that question is no, there is no good reason. But there is a reason. It's the same reason that Eve was afraid to trust Him. The reason is that we, like Eve, too often believe the lies Satan tells us about God, instead of believintg what God says about Himself in His Word.
These lies are brought out in Genesis 3:1-5. In essence, Satan says that if you surrender to God's authority, you will (1) miss out on a better and happier existence("your eyes shall be opened" [verse 5]); (2) not be in control of your life ("ye shall be as gods" [verse 5]); and (3) limit your personal growth ("you shall not eat of every tree?" [verse 1]). These lies make us afraid to trust God, and this makes surrender impossible."
May God richly bless you as you work with Him through all your struggles.
"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfedct in love. We love him, because he firt loved us."--1John 4: 16-19.
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."--Proverbs 3:5,6.
Last edited by GIL on Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.
We ask ourselves...
who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous?
Actually, who are we not to be? --Unknown
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[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/TheOneAndOnlyDerfy/sigsAvatarsEtc/loveyouguysWave.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/TheOneAndOnlyDerfy/sigsAvatarsEtc/ValHeartsSmiHug.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/TheOneAndOnlyDerfy/SigTags/LynneCocoaMo-1-1.jpg[/IMG]
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.
We ask ourselves...
who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous?
Actually, who are we not to be? --Unknown
*****************************************
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/TheOneAndOnlyDerfy/sigsAvatarsEtc/loveyouguysWave.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/TheOneAndOnlyDerfy/sigsAvatarsEtc/ValHeartsSmiHug.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/TheOneAndOnlyDerfy/SigTags/LynneCocoaMo-1-1.jpg[/IMG]
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Guest
I have another question. If we do not surrender something like this will God take away our salvation or is it perfect peace that we are missing out on? I have often wondered about this, If we do not submit to his will do we risk losing our salvation or is our salvation so solid that nothing can shake it or snatch it out of the hand of God.
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Guest
Watch this video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKmdldQg3KsOriginally posted by Ms. T Bones:
Dear Phillykiser,
I just believe with all my heart that if we do not surrender to God after we have be saved (born again) that we want experience the perfect peace, which He has in store for his children...There are so many scriptures in the Bible that tell us that Salvation is a free gift from God....Once we are saved, our souls have been made perfect, and our sins have been cast as far as east is from west...God then places His Holy Spirit inside that perfect soul, which was cleansed by Jesus's precious blood...We will always have sin in the flesh, that is why we have to die...We lost our natural life because of Adam and Eve's sin in the garden, but, we gained back our life through Jesus Christ who shed his precious blood to make us whole...We will continue to make mistakes until the day we leave this planet, because our bodies have not yet been perfected, just our souls...We will receive that perfect body after the resurrection, and not until then..The Bible says, if anyone says he has no sin, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him...It also says, there is one natural birth, and one spiritual birth...We get our natural birth when we are born (come from our mother's womb)...Our spiritual birth comes when we come as humble as a little child and ask God to save our souls...The Bible say, no man cometh to me, except my Father in Heaven draw him...We can not pick the day of our spiritual birth, as we cannot pick the day of our natural birth...When we believe in our hearts (not just in our minds) that Jesus died and rose on the 3rd day to save us from our sins, then, we will be saved...There are so many scriptures that talk about being born again...that, it would take me ages to write about them all...But, I do know that He said that He would never leave us or forsake us, but, go with us until the end of the world...How can we leave Him, when he lives in our souls??? I do know that I am far from perfect, and that He has never left me...His grace (love) is sufficient....I hope you understand all of this...if not, let me know....
God Bless....
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Guest
I believe that one text of Scripture can answer this question. It is found in Matt. 7:21. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." It seems that a lot of people believe in a false security or what is referred to as "once saved always saved." The Word of God simply does not support this idea. God never says anything about interferring with our freedom to choose after we became His followers. "Christians can choose to be lost just as surely as sinners can choose to be saved. Just think, how useless would be all the hundreds of biblical warnings against apostasy if it were impossible to experience it. Why would the Spirit have led Paul, Peter, and all the others to pen such solemn threats and admonitions against eternal loss if they were in no danger of suffering it? And if it is true that the once-saved are eternally secure, surely the devil would know it. Therefore he would never waste any time on believers, knowing how impossible it would be to cause them to be lost. Yet we all know by experience that Satan works even harder to pull away the saints from following Christ. We have to conclude that salvation does not consist of a single, irrevocable commitment, whether past or present. Being saved is the experience of living Christ's own life by divine imputatuon [justification] and impartation [sanctification]. It is never a reality except in continual, dynamic relationship with Jesus, the source of eternal life. Being saved must be spoken of in all three tenses of time in order to be completely biblical. It has happened, it is happening, it will happen."--Can A Saved Man Choose To Be Lost? One text of Scripture that is used a lot in an effort to defend the once saved always saved mentality is John 10:28,29. It states, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." This is a wonderful promise, but the previous verse, verse 27, reveals a specific condition to this promise. It states, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." God's true followers are safe in His hand, but it is this hearing and following which provides immunity against being plucked away by the devil or his agents. The protection is from enemies without who seek to carry off the sheep, but not from unfaithfulness of the sheep who might choose not to follow any longer. Like I said earlier, God does not take away our freedom to choose. Some would argue that a person who turns away from following the Lord was never saved to begin with. This could be true, but not always the case. I think we can agree that someone could be deceived into thinking that they have salvation when they may not. For some, salvation or the idea of going to heaven may be nothing more than wishful thinking. Naturally, only God knows the heart. Nancy Leigh DeMoss in her book "Surrender: The heart God Controls" comments on the idea of being deceived. "The person who has never acknowledged Christ's right to rule over his life has no basis for assurance of salvation. He may claim to be a Christian; he may have walked an aisle or prayed the sinner's prayer, he may know how to speak 'Christianese'; he may be heavily involved in Christian activities; but if he thinks he can have a relationship with God by retaining control over his life and somehow trying to fit Jesus in with everything else, he is deceived and is still at war with God. Sadly, for the past 150 years or more, evangelicalism has developed a theology that offers assurance of salvation to almost anyone who prays a prayer or 'makes a decision for Christ,' even though he may still be clinging to his rights, holding on to his sin, and bent on running his own life. The Scripture does not recognize such a profession as genuine. Jesus warned, 'Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven' (Matthew 7:21 NIV, italics added). Surrender to the will of God is a mark of the truly converted. The terms of our surrender to the Lord Jesus are nonnegotiale and unconditional. What does He ask us to surrender? In a word, everything. Christian surrender means that we come to Him on His terms, as the conquering general of our soul, and say simply, 'I surrender all.' We lay down our arms; we hand over everything we have, everything we are, everything we hope to be."Originally posted by PHILLYKISER:
"If we do not submit to his will do we risk losing our salvation or is our salvation so solid that nothing can shake it or snatch it out of the hand of God."
By the way, I would recommend getting this book. It is an easy-to-read devotional style of writing with a lot of story-type illustrations. Of course, most of all, I would recommend reading and studying the Bible on a regular basis. We should see for ourselves what is being said in the Sriptures and not just going by what someone else is saying. Reading and meditating on the Word of God is what allows us to know God. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." It's all about having a loving relationship with God and staying in that relationship. Jesus says, "If you love me, keep my commandments."--Jn 14:15. He also says, "If ye keep my comnmandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."--Jn 15:10.
I hope that this was of some help. God Bless!
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Guest
Hi all,
Gil, I beg to differ with you. We will just have to agree to disagree. Once saved always saved has been a long standing debate within the body of Christ. I will grant you to your choice of performance or works. I know that I am saved, and unless my sin be against the Holy Spirit, I shall remain His.
You cite your understanding of a few parables and some other citations, and that's all good. I want to say that Jesus spoke in these parables, because for the people of that day his message was clearly understood.
He is the Good Shepherd. He knows His sheep know Him and His sheep His voice. Why do you think the account of the lost sheep (a saved person) means so much that he would leave His flock, and pursue the lost lamb until He finds it or them, and then rejoice when he returns the lamb/sheep (saved person) to the flock?
Notice, The Shepherd sought out the lamb/sheep. Notice, The shepherd rejoices as He is carrying His formerly lost lamb/sheep. What the parable doesn't tell us, but the people of that day understood, is that the Shepherd loves His Lambs, and then breaks the lambs 2 front legs.
The Shepherd then carried that lamb wherever He went, as he cared for the lamb, feeding, grooming, and keep the lamb as close to His heart as possible. Notice, what does the lamb have to do? Not a thing! The lamb is being trained to remain as close to the Shepherd as possible and to be still and know that He is God! These are not mere coincidences, but from the words and parable stories spoken by our Lord and Savior.
I am a lamb who is broken, but I am also that same lamb, being held very closely to our Lord's breast. We are heart to heart. I would say that is a very good place. The other parable account that is very similar to this is the story of the prodigal son. We are these prodigal children that leave and lead a sinful life. Does the father reject his prodigal son? No, He is joyous and throws a huge celebration.
Everyone is joyous and happy for the Father and child reunion. Everyone is joyous; that is, except for the prodigal child's brother. Why is that? Could it be because of the envy he felt for the reception of his wayward and sinful brother?
In my view, you are saved. Jesus paid the price of redeeming you, once and for all, and for all that repent, get baptized, and accept Him as their Lord and Savior.
In Paul's Epistle to the community of Colossians, Paul spoke out against exactly what so many do by adding to the requirements of Salvation, as shown in Chapter 2 verses 4-9. Paul is speaking of the aesthetics they were practicing. We do not have to beat ourselves nor allow anyone else to beat or punish us to make ourselves or us worthy of salvation. That price was paid once and for all by our Lord and Savior.
The good works you may do, serve to show the you are the fruit of the branch that produced you. The Spirit of the Good Shepherd, will hold you close to his heart. The Spirit will place the commandments on your heart. The Spirit you nurture you to learn, grow and produce good fruit. The Spirit will lead you to His word and feed you. It is the Spirit working within you that is charged to help you in all things.
So there you have it, come as the prodigal child so that the Father will rejoice and leave everyone SPEECHLESS at His Loving kindness and Mercy
There is so much more I could say on this subject, but I think I made my position clear.
Philly you are just a lost lamb and trying to find your way back. Have no fear, the Good Shepherd is on His way to rescue you from your fears, and He will carry you close to His breast and His heart to return joyously with you and or receive you as His prodigal child. Don't let fear or not understanding as the words to the song, but just accept it.
Believe the unbelievable
Receive the inconceivable
And see beyond my wildest imagination
Lord, I come with great expectations
(full lyrics: http://www.klove.com/lyrics/lyrics.asp?241)
It's enough to leave us all SPEECHLESS.
No amount of legalistic gymnastics can change this simple understanding of these Spiritual truths; otherwise, they the demean the sacrifice already made for us by Yeshua-Jeus.
Sorry if I got carry away, but it is out of love that I pass this understanding along not mean spiritedness for God knows my heart. It is a delicate subject that I and the Apostle Paul had to wrestle with. Paul did it in Love and so have I.
TC and God Bless all of you.
Gil, I beg to differ with you. We will just have to agree to disagree. Once saved always saved has been a long standing debate within the body of Christ. I will grant you to your choice of performance or works. I know that I am saved, and unless my sin be against the Holy Spirit, I shall remain His.
You cite your understanding of a few parables and some other citations, and that's all good. I want to say that Jesus spoke in these parables, because for the people of that day his message was clearly understood.
He is the Good Shepherd. He knows His sheep know Him and His sheep His voice. Why do you think the account of the lost sheep (a saved person) means so much that he would leave His flock, and pursue the lost lamb until He finds it or them, and then rejoice when he returns the lamb/sheep (saved person) to the flock?
Notice, The Shepherd sought out the lamb/sheep. Notice, The shepherd rejoices as He is carrying His formerly lost lamb/sheep. What the parable doesn't tell us, but the people of that day understood, is that the Shepherd loves His Lambs, and then breaks the lambs 2 front legs.
The Shepherd then carried that lamb wherever He went, as he cared for the lamb, feeding, grooming, and keep the lamb as close to His heart as possible. Notice, what does the lamb have to do? Not a thing! The lamb is being trained to remain as close to the Shepherd as possible and to be still and know that He is God! These are not mere coincidences, but from the words and parable stories spoken by our Lord and Savior.
I am a lamb who is broken, but I am also that same lamb, being held very closely to our Lord's breast. We are heart to heart. I would say that is a very good place. The other parable account that is very similar to this is the story of the prodigal son. We are these prodigal children that leave and lead a sinful life. Does the father reject his prodigal son? No, He is joyous and throws a huge celebration.
Everyone is joyous and happy for the Father and child reunion. Everyone is joyous; that is, except for the prodigal child's brother. Why is that? Could it be because of the envy he felt for the reception of his wayward and sinful brother?
In my view, you are saved. Jesus paid the price of redeeming you, once and for all, and for all that repent, get baptized, and accept Him as their Lord and Savior.
In Paul's Epistle to the community of Colossians, Paul spoke out against exactly what so many do by adding to the requirements of Salvation, as shown in Chapter 2 verses 4-9. Paul is speaking of the aesthetics they were practicing. We do not have to beat ourselves nor allow anyone else to beat or punish us to make ourselves or us worthy of salvation. That price was paid once and for all by our Lord and Savior.
The good works you may do, serve to show the you are the fruit of the branch that produced you. The Spirit of the Good Shepherd, will hold you close to his heart. The Spirit will place the commandments on your heart. The Spirit you nurture you to learn, grow and produce good fruit. The Spirit will lead you to His word and feed you. It is the Spirit working within you that is charged to help you in all things.
So there you have it, come as the prodigal child so that the Father will rejoice and leave everyone SPEECHLESS at His Loving kindness and Mercy
There is so much more I could say on this subject, but I think I made my position clear.
Philly you are just a lost lamb and trying to find your way back. Have no fear, the Good Shepherd is on His way to rescue you from your fears, and He will carry you close to His breast and His heart to return joyously with you and or receive you as His prodigal child. Don't let fear or not understanding as the words to the song, but just accept it.
Believe the unbelievable
Receive the inconceivable
And see beyond my wildest imagination
Lord, I come with great expectations
(full lyrics: http://www.klove.com/lyrics/lyrics.asp?241)
It's enough to leave us all SPEECHLESS.
No amount of legalistic gymnastics can change this simple understanding of these Spiritual truths; otherwise, they the demean the sacrifice already made for us by Yeshua-Jeus.
Sorry if I got carry away, but it is out of love that I pass this understanding along not mean spiritedness for God knows my heart. It is a delicate subject that I and the Apostle Paul had to wrestle with. Paul did it in Love and so have I.
TC and God Bless all of you.
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Guest
Hi GIL ,GMAN and all who responded. I just want to say well said GMAN I agree. Believe on HIM and you are saved. The thief on the cross who did believe on HIM went to HEAVEN. The price has been paid the gift freely given to those who but believe on HIM. A gift is not taken back,, ever. Once saved always saved is I believe correct. How could one ever find peace if he didnt have this blessed assurance. PEACE,,Bruce