For followers of "less popular" spiritual path's

[BeatAnxiety07]

Originally posted by wholegrain:
Beat, I really like what you're saying about the Tao. That's why I like it and the RSOF so much- YOUR beliefs are about YOU. I too think we put ourselves through a lot of misery by listening to other people. When I was younger I really enjoyed getting into debates like the ones here, and sometimes I still slip into them. But the reality is that I really don't think these kinds of things go anywhere. I have a unique spiritual path somewhere inside of me that is going to make me very content, and yelling and screaming about Jesus or anything else is NOT going to help me find it.

But yeah, that ranting was pretty much to agree with you that you can't always take what someone, even a preacher says, to be "truth".

And now that you mention it, I realize that the Tao really is relaxation in and of itself. Letting go, just being. And the comfort zone thing- doesn't Lucinda teach that in the lessons? YOU are your safe place! Haha. It's true. When I confine myself to one place- my house, my bed, my city- that is when I am the most unhappy. I think something terrible will happen if I step on a plane or go to a city far away, but when I AM far away or 20,000 feet up in the air...I am at peace. It's somehow easier to realize that my home is wherever I am.

"The Tao is older than everything". That statement is very thought-provoking to me in a positive way. It's kind of scary to think like that. It feels daring, rebellious. But sometimes I think that is what I need. I need to not be afraid to embrace what inspires me, what uplifts me, what makes me cry and what gives me peace...even if everyone around me is saying it's wrong for me to embrace it.

Thanks for this discussion Beat. It is really nice to talk about something new to me for a change.

haha yeah Lucinda does mention the "comfort zone" that is a huge part of recovery. Anyway since you found: "The Tao is older than everything" to be though-provoking, I thought I'd throw another one at you: "If God is the almighty who knows all and can do all, can God create a rock that is too heavy for God to lift?" << thats an old question but def. a thought-provoking one...

I have also, always enjoyed talking about this kind of stuff. Not necessarily debating but discussing and thinking about these types of ideas; lets keep the discussion going and ignore those who come in here to preach rather than discuss, learn and share ideas.

[BeatAnxiety07]

"Put yourself in their shoes first."
or simply stop judging and anaylizing others.

Melissa and Guitartom,

Both of your posts are right on and I'm glad your are finding this thread helpful.

Meslissa,

the book you referenced is right on.. what I was talking about when refering to not jumping to conclusions is exactlly what that quote explains.

Lucinda Basset says in "From Panic to Power": "I was in a restaurant and had a terrible waiter and I had a horrible time there. I reluctantly agreed to go to the same restaurant again and I had a different waitress who was excellent! The experience was entirely different.."


Lucinda then goes on to explain how attitude is everything etc... What Lucinda is failing to realize here is that: "She has jumped to a conclusion." What if she went back to the same restaurant and the "bad waiter" waited on her again and was excellent? Would she still think it was an attitude issue? She is correct in the, "attitude sense", we should try to always keep a positive attitude. However, we all see the world in a different way and, as that books example explains, sometimes we don't know what happend to the person that day. Who knows maybe the waiters mother just died. Or maybe he has been a waiter for ten years and has always had the same attitude, but the attitude is the way it is, because the guys parents both died when he was twelve, his siblings died, he has no family, no money and was badly burned in a fire, and he has many physical flaws as a result.

When we can learn to stop judging others we will also learn to stop judging ourselves and criticising those things which we and others can not change. Have a positive attitude? Yes .. but don't criticize yourself or others who may have an extremely hard time obtaining that positive attitude.

Who knows, maybe that father on the train didnt' yell at his kids because he was deaf and didn't hear how loud they were being, or maybe he was truly irresponsible. Is his being irresponsible his fault? The conditions that made him who he is today are the same parameters that are causing him to make decisions about whether or not what his children are doing is right or wrong.

I deal with stupid (my perception), annoying (my perception) and disrespectful (my perception) people all day long at work. Do I take it personally? No... Do I flip out on them? No .. Why? I realize we are all the way we are as a result of our conditioning and our perception of the world around us. The only time we should speak out is when something another person or persons is doing is affecting our own well-being or the well-being and/or will of our loved ones.

[luckyme]

I'm curious, is it always in our best interest not to judge others? For instance, what if your daughter had a new guy come by the house one evening to pick her up for a date. You open the door and you see the guy wearing a shirt that reads: "Rape little girls 'til they die". Moreover, he greats you with, "Hey, you must be the b*tches dad". Would you ignore it and tell yourself, "Oh...no big deal. I won't make a judgment about his character". Doesn't making a judgment serve the best interests of your daughter and fulfill your duty as a parent?

[BeatAnxiety07]

Originally posted by luckyme:
I'm curious, is it always in our best interest not to judge others? For instance, what if your daughter had a new guy come by the house one evening to pick her up for a date. You open the door and you see the guy wearing a shirt that reads: "Rape little girls 'til they die". Moreover, he greats you with, "Hey, you must be the b*tches dad". Would you ignore it and tell yourself, "Oh...no big deal. I won't make a judgment about his character". Doesn't making a judgment serve the best interests of your daughter and fulfill your duty as a parent?

As I stated above:

The only time we should speak out is when something another person or persons is doing is affecting our own well-being or the well-being and/or will of our loved ones.

[Mello Nello]

As I stated above:

The only time we should speak out is when something another person or persons is doing is affecting our own well-being or the well-being and/or will of our loved ones.

Beat that was your statement, correct?? Wow!!
I care about lots of people. For instance, my husband and I were unloading lumber in the front of our house, and i saw a guy stealing a lawn mower at my neighbors house in plain view.
I yelled,, Hey STOP!!! and my husband jumped in his truck to try and catch them while i called the police... Now, this man isnt related to me in anyway.
But, i did what was right!!! I judged the situation by what i was seeing!!! and I spoke out, LOUDLY!!!

If someone was robbing you on the street,, would i walk past you, and not help? NO, i would try and help! But you scare me, i would probably get killed if you were walking by, cause i wasnt a loved one or family member right?
My helping or stating my voice, has nothing to do with relgion, it just plain has to do with caring for your neighbor and each other.
And by the way, if i saw a father Yelling at his children or abusing them in any way, You dang right i would speak out.
And if a waiter gives me bad service, they dont get a tip. I might go back to the resturant if the food is good,, and even put up with a bad waiter again, but then NO tip again.
So, i dont know what your trying to say. And you may not SAY anything to people you work with about thier actions or attitudes, but id be willing to bet you sure have Thoughts about them, lol its just part of being human... Nelly:)

[GuitarTom]

Hi Nelly,

I hope Beat Anxiety doesn't mind me speaking for him a little bit, but I think as a follower of eastern thought myself I might be able to shed a little light on what he ment. Buddhism teaches one to try to do the greater good in all situations, just as you where trying to do the greater good in the situations that you mentioned. For example, lets consider a Tibetian monk that has that has trained in kung-fu his entire life. Said monk has the physical abilities to destroy most any normal human being that comes in his path, yet if I were to spit in a monks face I would most likely recive a smile from the monk rather than an ass kicking. On the other hand if I were to swing at the monk or physicaly threaten him in any way, I would get my ass kicked. The greater good in this case would be for the monk to protect the more enlightened one, or in other words to protect himself. I think this example illustrates the difference between what beat was trying to say and what you were saying. Being less judgemental simply means to be more compassionate to all human beings, but being compassionate doesn't mean that we shouldn't act appropriately for the greater good.

[BeatAnxiety07]

Originally posted by guitartom:
Hi Nelly,

I hope Beat Anxiety doesn't mind me speaking for him a little bit, but I think as a follower of eastern thought myself I might be able to shed a little light on what he ment. Buddhism teaches one to try to do the greater good in all situations, just as you where trying to do the greater good in the situations that you mentioned. For example, lets consider a Tibetian monk that has that has trained in kung-fu his entire life. Said monk has the physical abilities to destroy most any normal human being that comes in his path, yet if I were to spit in a monks face I would most likely recive a smile from the monk rather than an ass kicking. On the other hand if I were to swing at the monk or physicaly threaten him in any way, I would get my ass kicked. The greater good in this case would be for the monk to protect the more enlightened one, or in other words to protect himself. I think this example illustrates the difference between what beat was trying to say and what you were saying. Being less judgemental simply means to be more compassionate to all human beings, but being compassionate doesn't mean that we shouldn't act appropriately for the greater good.

Exactlly...

Yes, we are discussing making assumptions about another person, we are not disucssing making assumptions about a possible crime taking, or about to take place.

What I meant by this statement: "The only time we should speak out is when something another person or persons is doing is affecting our own well-being or the well-being and/or will of our loved ones."

Is that when under physical or emotional danger we have the right to speak out and take action.

Murder and robbery are extreme situations where we need to take immediate action. However, if we see someone killing someone else and then go and kill the killer... we may feel guilt later on when we find out that the person he/she was trying to kill had just killed the persons entire family. I would simply call the cops in this situation and I think your husband, although with all good intentions, was being utterly irresponsible in chasing after the theif. For all you know the theif could have been coming to take back a lawn mower that was stolen from him or could have had a gun and shot your husband; is saving a lawn mower worth your husbands life? The smart and non-judgemental thing to do in this situation is to call the police, get as best a description of the person you can, watch where he is going and tell your neighbor what happened.

There are always parameters that will undoubtely be missed when making quick assumptions. In a case where a crime is being commited we typically do make these quick assumptions, but we do so based on past experience, knowledge about crimes and other variables; when a crime is being commited we take the risk that we have made an accurate assumption. We also make the quick assumption that we should call the police because something terrible might happen if we do not.

However, when sitting in a restaurant, we have plenty of time to think over an assumption about a person we do not know; rather than giving the waiter an attitude back or dismissing the waiter as a good person right off the bat.

Originally posted by MelloNello:
Beat that was your statement, correct?? Wow!!

See I could take this statement as direspectful, but it doesn't really matter. You are probably just: in a bad mood, still bitter about the "Wicca" thread, think you know it all, misinterpretated what I was trying to say, or maybe it is something else.. No reason to pass judgement I'll just say ... whatever.

Originally posted by MelloNello:
So, i dont know what your trying to say. And you may not SAY anything to people you work with about thier actions or attitudes, but id be willing to bet you sure have Thoughts about them, lol its just part of being human... Nelly

I was actually refering to customers not co-workers. Anyway, having a thought and believing that the thought is the truth without looking at all the facts is unhealthy. I could easily jump down someones throat at work because they are being direspectful... or I could give them the benefit of the doubt this time around and give them a second chance. Thus saving me a lot of unnecessary guilt if I was incorrect in my assumption.

You never know what the true nature of a certain situation is. Jumping to conclusions based on little or no evidence, which was done in the "bad waiter" example, is only hurtful to you in the long run.

When you can learn to stop judging others and jumping to conclusions, then and only then will you become less judgemental about yourself. Don't ever assume anything and think before you act or speak.

[Mello Nello]

Beat,
I wasnt being judgemental at all, i was just repeating a statement you wrote.
I guess coming from different directions, gives us both different assumptions.
Guitarmom, i understand what your saying, but in all honesty, if someone spit in my face, Id deck um!!!
Thats not only and insult, but dangerous, if someone has an illness of some kind. Bad example as far as im concerned. I think we ALL turn the other cheek many times in our lives, but I also think we should stand up for our principals.. Just my thinking,, Nelly:)

[GuitarTom]

Hi Nelly,

Guitarmom, i understand what your saying, but in all honesty, if someone spit in my face, Id deck um!!!

Guitarmom, that's funny. You can just call me Tom if you like.

[BeatAnxiety07]

bump

Just wanted to see how everyone is making out with their spirituality - practice and/or seeking? I recently picked up some Taoist items at a chinese shop to guide me when meditating. I purchased two sets of "health balls" with ying-yangs on them, a small buddha statue -- just out of respect -- and some incense. I have been practicing some deep-breathing exercises, something I used to do when recovering from anxiety, and different mantras and meditative positions. This really seems to help me reach, not only a relaxed state quickly if needed, but also helps me to reach that balance/oneness.

I would recommend the "health balls" they are very cheap and really help to relieve stress and slow your mind down when your thoughts are racing.