Self-centered vs Christ-centered
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Paisleegreen
- Posts: 1778
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:27 pm
I grew up a Christian, but have more recently found more comfort in a non-religious world view. If there is a God, I take comfort in him being what is actually said about him in the Bible. Of him being LOVE, PEACE, and the LIGHT. Because to me, the christianity i was taught growing up and throughout high school taught me to fear, feel guilt, and create a deep feeling of shame in myself. I find more hope in certain man-made philosophies, in knowing that there is no ultimate judgement for these, they are simply tools, just as this program is nothing more than a tool. i can use skills and knowledge to fit my own life. I suppose what i am interested in is in hearing how religion affects people going through depression or darkness. positives and negatives. thanks.
Andrew
Re: Self-centered vs Christ-centered
Hi Hutch, I am in week 4 of the program, I spent about 3 weeks on week 3 - but felt like i had to move on - I am a big fan of Dr Charles Stanley - I purchased a 2-sermon cd set called All Our Anxieties - and that has given me a lot of guidance on how to work with my self esteem and to also allow god be incontrol of my life - It has helped a lot for my anxieties - i have listened to the 1st cd a few times and the 2nd cd once - they are now going to be a part of a companion to my books and the rest of the cd's in this program - the website for Dr Charles Stanley is intouch.org - maybe u can find something there to help up - I know I have - god bless n good luck - anita57
Re: Self-centered vs Christ-centered
Hello everyone,
I never got around to responding once more like I wanted to and then I put things off in regard to what happened with the programming of this forum. Since it looks like they are not going to fix the problem of having people’s name down as writing things that others have written, I am going to soon request that anything with my name attached be removed. I’m not sure, but this may mean being removed from the forum altogether.
I would just like to bring to light that the title hutch19 gave to his topic was “Self-centered vs. Christ- centered.” The word “versus” means: in contrast to or the alternative of. It implies making a choice between the two. As I pointed out in my opening line to his question that the two do not fit together and I posed the question, “How can this be when the Christian experience is about being dead to self and alive in Christ?” Biblically speaking you cannot be a Christian unless you have died to self. This is evident in the “born again” experience of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. “[Christ] died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.”—2 Cor 5:15. “Know ye not… ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price.”—1 Cor 6:19, 20. We can say along with the apostle Paul, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.”—Gal 2:20.
Thank-you paisleegreen for the points you shared in reference to Christ’s mission. I would like to add to this by saying the mission of Jesus was a rescue mission of love. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”—John 3:16. “God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.”—Rom 8:3. The plan of salvation was God’s intention from the beginning of the creation of this world. Jesus had committed Himself as the “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”—Rev 13:8. “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.”—Matt 18:11. What does it mean to be lost? Isaiah 53:6 says, “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way.” Man is lost because of the desire to do his own thing in disobedience to God. We are simply lost in “self” and need to be found in Christ. Christ came to rescue us from sin and ourselves. Remember again the question hutch19 posed-- “How does going for what I want or putting myself first fit with having Christ as Lord?” I hope you can see once again, in light of what Scripture says, the two do not fit. Either “self” is on the throne or “Christ” is.
My closing statement of encouragement in my first post, which was challenged, stated, “May we all put away our self-esteem and self importance and put on the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen!” Notice that this statement is based on Romans 13:14 which says, “Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh.” Jesus said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”—Matt 16:24. This does not say to deny yourself of this, that, or the other thing. It is saying to deny “yourself”-- period.
Have you considered that there would be no issues with things like low self-esteem, high self-esteem, unhealthy self-esteem, etc., if self was dead? Satan is thrilled to have us keep playing around with issues pertaining to “self” and having a continuous preoccupation with symptoms instead of dealing with the root of the problem. In the book “Uprooting Anger,” Robert Jones says, “Grandma was right. You’ve got to get the weeds by the roots, or they’ll just grow back.”
It is not my intention to address any issues with StressCenter program. This is why I chose only to answer hutch19’s second question which went along with the title of his post. I have a loving concern that we will be able to understand the truth and discern for ourselves which “programs” or “tools” will lead us closer to God and not allow us to exchange the truth for a lie. “As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you [take you captive] through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments [fundamental principles] of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.”—Col 2:6-10.
I understand that secular humanistic psychology has been permeating Christianity for many years now with the self-esteem movement. I had taken a college class called “Christian Counseling” and dropped it half way through because the Bible was not even cracked open once. One author says, “The self-esteem influence has so pervaded our society that it is no longer perceived as anything but the most familiar and acceptable way of thinking.” Another author, referring to psychology as leaven in the Church says, “Psychological leaven consists of secular theories and techniques which are ‘according to the tradition of men.’ They are man-made ideas which offer substitutes for salvation and sanctification.”
A couple of people who have responded to this topic appeared to have given up on being Christians because of past experiences. I would like to encourage you to not give up based on what other people are saying or doing. Even if you grew up with things like false teaching and legalistic attitudes, etc. that give the wrong impression about God, I hope that you are not using these as an excuse not to study the Bible and discover for yourself who God really is and to have a personal, and growing, relationship with Him.
Notsonostalgic, after confessing to now being an atheist, said, “No more worry about condemnation.” Someone who is a Christian should not be worrying about condemnation. The verses of Scripture following the popular John 3:16 say, “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” The key here is believing. Believing is more than just giving a mental assent. It also involves a trust that allows you to live and grow in the things of God by His grace through faith. “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”—1 John 5:4. “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”—Rom 10:17. Faith is the depending upon the word of God only, and expecting that word only, to do what the word says.
The book “Lessons on Faith” states, “We have heard many people tell how hard they found it to do right; their Christian life was most unsatisfactory to them, being marked only by failure, and they were tempted to give up in discouragement. No wonder they get discouraged; continued failure is enough to discourage anybody…. Sometimes these persons will mournfully tell that they have about lost confidence in themselves. Poor souls, if they would only lose confidence in themselves entirely, and would put their whole trust in the one who is mighty to save, they would have a different story to tell.” In the second half of Romans 7 Paul shows how miserable and in vain it is in trying to keep the law without the law giver regardless of how sincere or deep the conviction. Notice how in verse 24 he finally cries out in agony, “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” Can you see how trying to fix ourselves, doing things our way and in our own strength can lead to things like anxiety and depression? Paul gives the answer to this dilemma in the next verse. “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” God wants to cleanse us and make us whole, but there can be a tendency to try and do it ourselves in the realm of the fleshly self in order to be acceptable to God when it is God alone who can change us and do a marvelous work in us when we surrender all to Him. God’s unconditional love accepts us just as we are, but does not leave us there. He wants to restore us back into His image.
Listen to what follows in Rom 8:1-9. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Paisleegreen said, “I don't see how working on our self-esteem is taking anything away from the Lord.” Working on our self-esteem is taking us away from the Lord. When the mind dwells upon self, it is turned away from Christ, the source of strength and life. As we just read, “The carnal mind is enmity against God.” Paisleegreen also said, “Building our self-esteem… only glorifies Him.” Can you see how this does not make any sense in light of what we just read? “They that are in the flesh cannot please God.” “The flesh is self wanting its own way at the expense of others and in opposition to God. The flesh is self on the throne instead of God. One can easily see how vital it is for believers to walk in the Spirit and to deny the fleshly self. And yet, when people experience problems of living, they often attempt to deal with them through fleshly means.”— (Christ-Centered Ministry versus Problem-Centered Counseling.)
It is not my desire to put people down for what they say and believe. I can appreciate how others are expressing themselves and sharing their points of view. I simply want to share what the Word of God is saying to the topic at hand. I think the song, “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross,” by Isaac Watts is very meaningful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkx8WAyc ... re=related It seems to get to the crux of the point as it says, “Love so amazing, so divine, Demands my soul, my life, my all.”
I never got around to responding once more like I wanted to and then I put things off in regard to what happened with the programming of this forum. Since it looks like they are not going to fix the problem of having people’s name down as writing things that others have written, I am going to soon request that anything with my name attached be removed. I’m not sure, but this may mean being removed from the forum altogether.
I would just like to bring to light that the title hutch19 gave to his topic was “Self-centered vs. Christ- centered.” The word “versus” means: in contrast to or the alternative of. It implies making a choice between the two. As I pointed out in my opening line to his question that the two do not fit together and I posed the question, “How can this be when the Christian experience is about being dead to self and alive in Christ?” Biblically speaking you cannot be a Christian unless you have died to self. This is evident in the “born again” experience of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. “[Christ] died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.”—2 Cor 5:15. “Know ye not… ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price.”—1 Cor 6:19, 20. We can say along with the apostle Paul, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.”—Gal 2:20.
Thank-you paisleegreen for the points you shared in reference to Christ’s mission. I would like to add to this by saying the mission of Jesus was a rescue mission of love. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”—John 3:16. “God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.”—Rom 8:3. The plan of salvation was God’s intention from the beginning of the creation of this world. Jesus had committed Himself as the “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”—Rev 13:8. “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.”—Matt 18:11. What does it mean to be lost? Isaiah 53:6 says, “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way.” Man is lost because of the desire to do his own thing in disobedience to God. We are simply lost in “self” and need to be found in Christ. Christ came to rescue us from sin and ourselves. Remember again the question hutch19 posed-- “How does going for what I want or putting myself first fit with having Christ as Lord?” I hope you can see once again, in light of what Scripture says, the two do not fit. Either “self” is on the throne or “Christ” is.
My closing statement of encouragement in my first post, which was challenged, stated, “May we all put away our self-esteem and self importance and put on the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen!” Notice that this statement is based on Romans 13:14 which says, “Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh.” Jesus said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”—Matt 16:24. This does not say to deny yourself of this, that, or the other thing. It is saying to deny “yourself”-- period.
Have you considered that there would be no issues with things like low self-esteem, high self-esteem, unhealthy self-esteem, etc., if self was dead? Satan is thrilled to have us keep playing around with issues pertaining to “self” and having a continuous preoccupation with symptoms instead of dealing with the root of the problem. In the book “Uprooting Anger,” Robert Jones says, “Grandma was right. You’ve got to get the weeds by the roots, or they’ll just grow back.”
It is not my intention to address any issues with StressCenter program. This is why I chose only to answer hutch19’s second question which went along with the title of his post. I have a loving concern that we will be able to understand the truth and discern for ourselves which “programs” or “tools” will lead us closer to God and not allow us to exchange the truth for a lie. “As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you [take you captive] through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments [fundamental principles] of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.”—Col 2:6-10.
I understand that secular humanistic psychology has been permeating Christianity for many years now with the self-esteem movement. I had taken a college class called “Christian Counseling” and dropped it half way through because the Bible was not even cracked open once. One author says, “The self-esteem influence has so pervaded our society that it is no longer perceived as anything but the most familiar and acceptable way of thinking.” Another author, referring to psychology as leaven in the Church says, “Psychological leaven consists of secular theories and techniques which are ‘according to the tradition of men.’ They are man-made ideas which offer substitutes for salvation and sanctification.”
A couple of people who have responded to this topic appeared to have given up on being Christians because of past experiences. I would like to encourage you to not give up based on what other people are saying or doing. Even if you grew up with things like false teaching and legalistic attitudes, etc. that give the wrong impression about God, I hope that you are not using these as an excuse not to study the Bible and discover for yourself who God really is and to have a personal, and growing, relationship with Him.
Notsonostalgic, after confessing to now being an atheist, said, “No more worry about condemnation.” Someone who is a Christian should not be worrying about condemnation. The verses of Scripture following the popular John 3:16 say, “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” The key here is believing. Believing is more than just giving a mental assent. It also involves a trust that allows you to live and grow in the things of God by His grace through faith. “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”—1 John 5:4. “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”—Rom 10:17. Faith is the depending upon the word of God only, and expecting that word only, to do what the word says.
The book “Lessons on Faith” states, “We have heard many people tell how hard they found it to do right; their Christian life was most unsatisfactory to them, being marked only by failure, and they were tempted to give up in discouragement. No wonder they get discouraged; continued failure is enough to discourage anybody…. Sometimes these persons will mournfully tell that they have about lost confidence in themselves. Poor souls, if they would only lose confidence in themselves entirely, and would put their whole trust in the one who is mighty to save, they would have a different story to tell.” In the second half of Romans 7 Paul shows how miserable and in vain it is in trying to keep the law without the law giver regardless of how sincere or deep the conviction. Notice how in verse 24 he finally cries out in agony, “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” Can you see how trying to fix ourselves, doing things our way and in our own strength can lead to things like anxiety and depression? Paul gives the answer to this dilemma in the next verse. “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” God wants to cleanse us and make us whole, but there can be a tendency to try and do it ourselves in the realm of the fleshly self in order to be acceptable to God when it is God alone who can change us and do a marvelous work in us when we surrender all to Him. God’s unconditional love accepts us just as we are, but does not leave us there. He wants to restore us back into His image.
Listen to what follows in Rom 8:1-9. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Paisleegreen said, “I don't see how working on our self-esteem is taking anything away from the Lord.” Working on our self-esteem is taking us away from the Lord. When the mind dwells upon self, it is turned away from Christ, the source of strength and life. As we just read, “The carnal mind is enmity against God.” Paisleegreen also said, “Building our self-esteem… only glorifies Him.” Can you see how this does not make any sense in light of what we just read? “They that are in the flesh cannot please God.” “The flesh is self wanting its own way at the expense of others and in opposition to God. The flesh is self on the throne instead of God. One can easily see how vital it is for believers to walk in the Spirit and to deny the fleshly self. And yet, when people experience problems of living, they often attempt to deal with them through fleshly means.”— (Christ-Centered Ministry versus Problem-Centered Counseling.)
It is not my desire to put people down for what they say and believe. I can appreciate how others are expressing themselves and sharing their points of view. I simply want to share what the Word of God is saying to the topic at hand. I think the song, “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross,” by Isaac Watts is very meaningful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkx8WAyc ... re=related It seems to get to the crux of the point as it says, “Love so amazing, so divine, Demands my soul, my life, my all.”
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Paisleegreen
- Posts: 1778
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:27 pm
Re: Self-centered vs Christ-centered
Gil, I agree with the Scripture you quoted as well. That still doesn't take away from us fulfilling our purpose here on earth by acts of self-discipline and increasing our minds with light and knowledge in whatsoever is worthy and of good report. Every good book, everything that is beautiful and uplifting to the Soul. It is the discipline of our minds and bodies with the aid of prayer and fasting to choose the good gifts that are to the betterment of our soul and physical well -being. We have brains that God gave us to use to the best of our ability.
I do not deny that our Hearts should be turned to Christ, but we will be left comfortless for short periods of time to test us. By keeping our sights on the "prize" of eternal life, we journey through this wasteland called "earth" far from what we knew before our birth that was peaceful and beautiful. Our memories are faded so that we can travel through life exercising Faith, which is mental exertion. We have power to utilize the Universe and its Spiritual properties that is unseen. That's why people that don't believe in Christ can be successful, because of the Light of Christ which is everywhere can be accessed by Faith in that object of design or desires of the heart. Now whether they be for good or evil, it doesn't matter. It is a universal phenomenon that all people can exercise mental exertion or the Faith of a Mustard Seed and move mountains.
These people don't even know who Christ is, but have the Spirit of Christ which is given to all men to help them make decisions if they but seek and exercise faith, mental exertion along with physical exertion, called work.
So by the mere action of thinking something positive whether Christ is in the picture or not, a person can move mountains.
This does not mean that the person is being self-centered, they are just exercising Faith the size of a Mustard Seed to change their lives.
I agree though that the more someone is centered in Christ, their thoughts and actions will reflect that and will be added to their well-being and happiness. They will find meaning in life, instead of wandering aimlessly through the wilderness of this life. They will increase in faith and knowledge, even wisdom to help them make good decisions that will be a blessing to them and others.
I do not deny that our Hearts should be turned to Christ, but we will be left comfortless for short periods of time to test us. By keeping our sights on the "prize" of eternal life, we journey through this wasteland called "earth" far from what we knew before our birth that was peaceful and beautiful. Our memories are faded so that we can travel through life exercising Faith, which is mental exertion. We have power to utilize the Universe and its Spiritual properties that is unseen. That's why people that don't believe in Christ can be successful, because of the Light of Christ which is everywhere can be accessed by Faith in that object of design or desires of the heart. Now whether they be for good or evil, it doesn't matter. It is a universal phenomenon that all people can exercise mental exertion or the Faith of a Mustard Seed and move mountains.
These people don't even know who Christ is, but have the Spirit of Christ which is given to all men to help them make decisions if they but seek and exercise faith, mental exertion along with physical exertion, called work.
So by the mere action of thinking something positive whether Christ is in the picture or not, a person can move mountains.
This does not mean that the person is being self-centered, they are just exercising Faith the size of a Mustard Seed to change their lives.
I agree though that the more someone is centered in Christ, their thoughts and actions will reflect that and will be added to their well-being and happiness. They will find meaning in life, instead of wandering aimlessly through the wilderness of this life. They will increase in faith and knowledge, even wisdom to help them make good decisions that will be a blessing to them and others.
Re: Self-centered vs Christ-centered
This is such invaluable information and I thank you so much for all of your knowledge and replies re: this subject. I, too, have struggled and prayed about this program and how much am I allowing God to enter into my recovery. I pray before every session which always helps me and write small prayers in my workbook and journal to keep me focused on what God may be trying to teach me during my process.
I am a huge Oswald Chambers fan and read his daily inspirational book (and have for years), "My Utmost for His Highest." The readings from February 16th - 20th have so much meaning with regards to this program. In essence and I am paraphrasing, Oswald Chambers states: "That not all initiative or the willing to take the first step is inspired by God. BUT, when the Spirit of God comes to us and says, in effect, "GET UP AND GET GOING," suddenly we may find that the initiative is inspired." He also says that, "We all have many dreams and aspirations when we are young but sooner or later we may realize we have no power to accomplish them and we tend to think of our aspirations as dead. But when God comes and says to us, "ARISE FROM THE DEAD..." When God sends His inspirations coupled with His miraculous power, we begin to feel that we ARE able to "arise" and do the impossible." THIS NEXT POINT IS KEY AND WHAT HIT HOME FOR ME... WHICH IS WHY I BELIEVE THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT SENDS EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US TOOLS TO COPE AND TOOLS TO PUT ON THE ARMOR OF HIS LOVE FOR US. Oswald Chambers said that, "The remarkable thing about SPIRITUAL INITIATIVE is that the life and power comes AFTER we GET UP AND GET GOING. God does not give us overcoming life--HE GIVE US LIFE "AS WE OVERCOME!" "When the inspiration of God comes and He says, "Arise from the dead...." we have to get ourselves up, first; God will not life us up. If we take the initiative to overcome we will find that we have the inspirations of God because He immediately gives us the power of life." ~Oswald Chambers~
I believe that this program is a tool and a gift from the Holy Spirit for me...I'm only on step 2, but I know I needed something at a time when my anxiety was out of control and He led me here. I would also recommend another website for Christians that I have found very helpful...www.ChristianityOasis.com. It's not a "product" that you buy but it has many helpful studies that may help you on your journey as it has helped me...God Bless you all.
I am a huge Oswald Chambers fan and read his daily inspirational book (and have for years), "My Utmost for His Highest." The readings from February 16th - 20th have so much meaning with regards to this program. In essence and I am paraphrasing, Oswald Chambers states: "That not all initiative or the willing to take the first step is inspired by God. BUT, when the Spirit of God comes to us and says, in effect, "GET UP AND GET GOING," suddenly we may find that the initiative is inspired." He also says that, "We all have many dreams and aspirations when we are young but sooner or later we may realize we have no power to accomplish them and we tend to think of our aspirations as dead. But when God comes and says to us, "ARISE FROM THE DEAD..." When God sends His inspirations coupled with His miraculous power, we begin to feel that we ARE able to "arise" and do the impossible." THIS NEXT POINT IS KEY AND WHAT HIT HOME FOR ME... WHICH IS WHY I BELIEVE THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT SENDS EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US TOOLS TO COPE AND TOOLS TO PUT ON THE ARMOR OF HIS LOVE FOR US. Oswald Chambers said that, "The remarkable thing about SPIRITUAL INITIATIVE is that the life and power comes AFTER we GET UP AND GET GOING. God does not give us overcoming life--HE GIVE US LIFE "AS WE OVERCOME!" "When the inspiration of God comes and He says, "Arise from the dead...." we have to get ourselves up, first; God will not life us up. If we take the initiative to overcome we will find that we have the inspirations of God because He immediately gives us the power of life." ~Oswald Chambers~
I believe that this program is a tool and a gift from the Holy Spirit for me...I'm only on step 2, but I know I needed something at a time when my anxiety was out of control and He led me here. I would also recommend another website for Christians that I have found very helpful...www.ChristianityOasis.com. It's not a "product" that you buy but it has many helpful studies that may help you on your journey as it has helped me...God Bless you all.
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Paisleegreen
- Posts: 1778
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:27 pm
Re: Self-centered vs Christ-centered
Thanks Edieoho! 
I agree totally with what you posted. How are you doing? Paislee 
I agree totally with what you posted. How are you doing? Paislee Re: Self-centered vs Christ-centered
Thank you for asking, Paisleegreen! Each day is a tiny bit better...it's a slow process, I know. I didn't get this way over night and I won't recover over night, either. But, I got up and got going, Praise God! Your thoughts on this subject just rang so true to me and I thank you...How are you doing, my dear? I hope each and every day gets better for you, too. The Lord has brought us here and I believe we must do our best to accomplish HIS goal for us. Afterall, HE wants us happy and healthy in order to Glorify HIM! Right? Blessings to you and all you are seeking HIS TRUTH...
EdieOho
EdieOho
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Paisleegreen
- Posts: 1778
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:27 pm
Re: Self-centered vs Christ-centered
You're right, Edieoho--I've had better days, didn't sleep very well last night. I had to do some stressful communication to my siblings about another sibling. Never a pleasant thing, ugh.
I'm glad you are getting better each day, I believe I am as well, just wish it would be faster! Paislee 
I'm glad you are getting better each day, I believe I am as well, just wish it would be faster!
Paislee Re: Self-centered vs Christ-centered
I just want to say I found this post very interesting as well as the responses. I don't pretend to have all the answers, all I have is my own experience. I was raised a Christian and in my last year of high school I noticed a growing struggle with anxiety and depression. Looking back now I realize it was there throughout my life in some form or another but was often underneath the surface. It became increasingly more difficult as I moved into college and away from my household. Sounds like a true coming of age story haha. As I struggled more and more intensely with depression and anxiety I grew further and further away from God, becoming confused, why would God punish me like this and worse, why wasn't he sparing me of this suffering?
For years following I went to therapists, priests, counseling, self help books anything that I could find answers to the dilemma of what was going on with me and what was going on with God. After many years of shutting out God, I reached a point in my life where i bottomed out and joined a twelve step program. There I found spirituality and a God as I understood him. And in my eyes God was still a Christian God. As I surrendered (which was a HUGE risk for me at the time) to him through the steps, my life, over time became significantly changed, more peaceful. I could truly feel Gods healing power and knew I was on the right track in my life for the first time in a long time. I started to incorporate Him back into my life and pretty soon daily.
As I grew closer to God, those old familiar dilemmas started to work themselves out. I went back to Jesus. I looked at Him and who He was. I focused on his treatment of the people around Him and His words. In my intrepretation and understanding, Jesus was the ultimate counselor, He cared about people, their pain,their anguish, their joy. If everything we know about God leads us to the belief we were created with a purpose, that all life is sacred, that we are unique and made by Him, how can it be selfish to care about ourselves? If He cares about us, how can we not care about us? I believe it is through God that we learn this, because He loves us so much He gave us Jesus. If we don't take care of ourselves we will be no good to anyone, not even God.
I've learned through that in exploring my passions/gifts, God granted them to me, and in defining my life purpose God directed me. We all have gifts given to us, inklings of ourselves, way before anyone ever tells us, no you can't do that, no don't say that, no God doesn't like that. In my experience, the confusion is not so much in God Himself, or His plans, but it in the messages we receive from OTHERS about the message of God, the interepretations and how it should be.
Jumping foward a little, over a year into the twelve step program, I began to make a lot of changes in my life with my career and my passions, when this started to happen, much of my anxiety and depression started resurfacing again. I began to feel discouraged, I felt there was something more I needed to learn. To deal with these thoughts and feelings but I wasn't sure what or how. I had come so far and been healed in so many ways, but this still was a battle for me. One night I was praying, talking to God about it and a few minutes later started flipping through the channels and stumbled upon the infomercial. I had seen it before many times but always kept going, this time however I stopped and called, and here I am.
I don't pretent to have all the answers or to know everything about anxiety, depression, God, or even myself, but I am learning more and more all the time. The biggest thing I've learned through my experiences is God does care about my happiness, my joy, my life and the gifts He has given to me. He has blessed me, He loves me and wants me to live the fullest life I can. When I broke down and surrendered to Him, it wasn't like a big lightening bolt came down from the sky and the heavens opened up, but in so many ways they did. In developing my personal relationship with God, or Him with me, He showed me things, in my life; what was working, what was not working and what gifts he had given me that I could be working on. He directed me to the things I needed. This program is helping me. There are still days that are hard, but God is with me and with the direction he has given me, he put it in my path. It was up to me to pick it up. This program was one of them.
For years following I went to therapists, priests, counseling, self help books anything that I could find answers to the dilemma of what was going on with me and what was going on with God. After many years of shutting out God, I reached a point in my life where i bottomed out and joined a twelve step program. There I found spirituality and a God as I understood him. And in my eyes God was still a Christian God. As I surrendered (which was a HUGE risk for me at the time) to him through the steps, my life, over time became significantly changed, more peaceful. I could truly feel Gods healing power and knew I was on the right track in my life for the first time in a long time. I started to incorporate Him back into my life and pretty soon daily.
As I grew closer to God, those old familiar dilemmas started to work themselves out. I went back to Jesus. I looked at Him and who He was. I focused on his treatment of the people around Him and His words. In my intrepretation and understanding, Jesus was the ultimate counselor, He cared about people, their pain,their anguish, their joy. If everything we know about God leads us to the belief we were created with a purpose, that all life is sacred, that we are unique and made by Him, how can it be selfish to care about ourselves? If He cares about us, how can we not care about us? I believe it is through God that we learn this, because He loves us so much He gave us Jesus. If we don't take care of ourselves we will be no good to anyone, not even God.
I've learned through that in exploring my passions/gifts, God granted them to me, and in defining my life purpose God directed me. We all have gifts given to us, inklings of ourselves, way before anyone ever tells us, no you can't do that, no don't say that, no God doesn't like that. In my experience, the confusion is not so much in God Himself, or His plans, but it in the messages we receive from OTHERS about the message of God, the interepretations and how it should be.
Jumping foward a little, over a year into the twelve step program, I began to make a lot of changes in my life with my career and my passions, when this started to happen, much of my anxiety and depression started resurfacing again. I began to feel discouraged, I felt there was something more I needed to learn. To deal with these thoughts and feelings but I wasn't sure what or how. I had come so far and been healed in so many ways, but this still was a battle for me. One night I was praying, talking to God about it and a few minutes later started flipping through the channels and stumbled upon the infomercial. I had seen it before many times but always kept going, this time however I stopped and called, and here I am.
I don't pretent to have all the answers or to know everything about anxiety, depression, God, or even myself, but I am learning more and more all the time. The biggest thing I've learned through my experiences is God does care about my happiness, my joy, my life and the gifts He has given to me. He has blessed me, He loves me and wants me to live the fullest life I can. When I broke down and surrendered to Him, it wasn't like a big lightening bolt came down from the sky and the heavens opened up, but in so many ways they did. In developing my personal relationship with God, or Him with me, He showed me things, in my life; what was working, what was not working and what gifts he had given me that I could be working on. He directed me to the things I needed. This program is helping me. There are still days that are hard, but God is with me and with the direction he has given me, he put it in my path. It was up to me to pick it up. This program was one of them.