What does forgiveness mean?

[Guest]

Missee,
As others on here have, I have struggled with forgiveness as well. I have been abused and mistreated, and there were perhaps times that I could have died as a child, but it's not as obvious as what you have endured from your ex-boyfriend. For me, one of the major hardships for me are people who mistreat my son who has autism or me when I am trying to take care of him. Sometimes, I believe my anger is just "righteous indignation" for my child so I definitely think there are times when anger has it's place, and Jesus did get angry so there is a place for anger. Of course you're angry because someone tried to kill you. Of course, you need to be careful in who you trust and let into your life, especially if they can kill you.

I also thought Lenore's testimony was very powerful. However, truth be told, there are contradictory scriptures listed in the Bible about forgiveness, and people just interpret those scriptures differently as well. To some people it's very simple and easy and forgiveness is the exact same thing as reconciliation. There are the statements about God not forgiving you if you don't forgive others, but there are also statements about the forgiveness being conditional based on the offending party's true repentance. The scripture from Jesus that says "If your brother sins and REPENTS, forgive him" is what comes to my mind. And then there's debate over what true repentance actually means. I mean Jesus did die for our sins, and if we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, we are assured salvation. But in order to receive forgiveness for our sins after we have been assured salvation, we must truly repent and make an effort to change as part of our repentance, not because we are going to hell, but because we love God and want to live a life worthy of what He has done for us on the cross. So you are not wrong for being confused or alone in your confusion.
Here's my confused opinion. Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. Sometimes they are if the offending party has truly repented and the relationship has a chance to be healthy for both individuals, and that may not be the exact same relationship that you had with the person before either. However, when your physical life and emotional health are in danger by reconciliation, I don't think any Christian minister in their right mind would tell you that you need to have a relationship with someone who abuses you physically or emotionally. The Christian book by Henry Cloud called "Boundaries" and "Safe People" are good books that give information regarding who and who not to have relationships with and under what circumstances. So, you can work on forgiving the abusive boyfriend, but that doesn't mean you should have a relationship with him by any means. Of course, God's desire is for your ex-boyfriend to change and not try to kill anyone again. His plan is for everyone to treat each other lovingly, but that doesn't always happen, and it it doesn't work because of the ex-boyfriend. Remember the scripture, "As far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men." This means you do what you can on your end, and you did. He almost killed you so that's not your fault. God doesn't want you to be in danger like that, and it isn't your fault.
Also, are you seeking revenge toward the boyfriend? Probably not. You have anger towards him, but I doubt you are going to try to kill him. Another Christian author that I read has stated, "Self-protection is not the same as revenge." I'm sure you are doing everything you can to protect yourself by staying away from this harmful person, and you are not seeking revenge.
Secondly, forgiveness which does not necessarily mean reconciliation takes time. Some people move through the process faster than others. Lenore mentioned the Oprah show, but I also saw an Oprah show where a pastor said that forgiveness and reconciliation aren't necessarily the same thing where a girl was able to forgive someone who murdered a family member, and she emphasized that it took a long time to reach that point. Forgiveness is a process, and I agree with you that you can't pretend to forgive someone, and that is a pet peeve of mine that I have with people who act like it's always so simple and has nothing to do with true repentance and means that you're just supposed to let the person back into your life in the exact same way. I have found that these people often don't really forgive, but just pretend to forgive, and I've seen some very passive aggressive behavior from these people that indicate that they don't truly forgive. In trying to forgive others, you're not supposed to sin and be dishonest to get out of what you perceive is another sin in unforgiveness. Doesn't make any sense at all to me.

So, you don't forgive this person right now. You're working on understanding forgiveness and what that really means. It's a process, and you are making an effort to do it. I don't believe that a loving God is going to punish you and not forgive you because your boyfriend tried to kill you. God is not on the side of the perpetrator. If He asks you to do anything, it is going to be that He asks you do what is best, and I doubt having a relationship with this person is what's best for you or even for the boyfriend who would think that it was O.K. to try to kill you. You wouldn't be helping him by entering back into that relationship either. He needs help, and he wouldn't get the help if you made him believe that his behavior was O.K. It is not your fault by any means. You've been through enough, and you are working on doing what's best.

Finally, I guess the type of forgiveness that could take place in my opinion is the one where you just give that person to God. You know that there's nothing you can do on your end to change what happened in the past, that thinking about the person won't make that person feel sorry or your rightfully angry thoughts won't hurt the person in the form of revenge, and that focusing on that person and what they did to you too much will only hurt you because of the negative feelings it causes in you. You'll want to use the energy to focus on loving yourself and the healthy relationships in your life. You can work on trusting God to deal with the person in His way, and know you don't need to be around to see it. That person won't be your business anymore, and won't drain you. I don't think that's the same as reconciliation. I think that's taking control of your life, and not wasting your precious time and energy on the person that's already taken so much from you.

I hope something in here helps. If you are under too much pressure from your therapist to implement that therapist's form of forgiveness, then please find another. I used to go to a Christian therapist who whenever I wanted to talk about anything that had happened to me that hurt me, she would emphatically say "You need to forgive!" I don't think that talking about our past hurts in therapy means that we don't forgive, and forgiveness can take time. We have a right to express our true feelings in a healthy safe environment. God wants honest. Look at David's Psalms. Look at what he asked for toward his enemies. He expressed himself to God, and then turned his enemies over to God, and saw God come through for Him. If God wants honesty, then why does the therapist think that's wrong? Yes, if we get stuck there, that's not healthy, but I was always told I was a "dweller" from my family that abused me, but low and behold after years of therapy, I am able to focus on other issues, and release these people to God. They didn't want me to talk about their bad behaviors because they were the one's at fault. I needed to talk about the abuse, and then learn how to move on, and I did, but I had to talk about the pain first. Remember that God is a God of free will. The Holy Spirit leads you, and does not force you because He is a loving God. God's desire for us in any of our behaviors is for our motivation to be out of love and not fear. God doesn't even want us to give to others unless our motivation is from love. "Don't give grudgingly or under compulsion"etc. If this therapist is telling you that God won't forgive you if you don't automatically forgive your attacker and that you have to have a relationship with the attacker, you should probably find another therapist. I promise there are many books by Christian authors that are more compassionate about this topic than your therapist.
Take Care, God Bless You, and Good luck to you in finding the answers you need:).

[Guest]

Thank you all very much for your kind advice and sharing your experiences. I feel so grateful to be a part of a community where I can talk with others who are supportive and have struggled with the same issues. I guess forgiveness is a process and i need to be patient with myself as i begin to let go-for me. Your stories are very inspiring and give me hope that in time I too will be able to let go. You are all so strong! Luvpiggy, thank you so so much for your encouragement and advice. I can't tell you how comforting what you wrote was to me. I really liked what you said about "giving someone to God" and releasing the anger that way, and also pointing out the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation-I realized in my mind I'm thinking of forgiving someone as meaning i would be letting them back in my life and i agree there are situations where it is not always best to do so.

Sammy105, i appreciate your comment, but i don't think i am keeping a grudge because my ex broke my heart, i have had healthy relationships where things just don't work out, and I've moved on. This man broke more than my heart and I truly believe that from any other perspective, from anyone else's point of view what he did would still be considered wrong or "evil" as you said. I'm not missing him or angry that we didn't work out, i'm trying to figure out how to forgive the abuse. I really liked how you described forgiveness in terms of getting to a place where you admit to a higher power you wish no harm to someone you are/were angry with. That is a great way to start forgiving someone and i think that statement is going to help me immensely in this process.

I am going to check out some of the books on letting go you all suggested...thanks again so much for the advice. Take care and good luck t you all

[Guest]

MissE,

I used "Daily Affirmations for Forgiving & Moving On" by Tian Dayton (which aleisa123 recommended to you)daily in 2007, taking it one page per day. It provided some tremendous insights for me.

To my surprise, two of my brothers, after I had sent copies to them, also said that they liked it, and that's very unusual for them to say. One brother used it like I did, daily, and the other just pulled it out occasionally, reading a few pages at a time.

The older brother even asked me to send a copy of it to his son, because he didn't think that his son would accept it coming from him.

Maybe it will be helpful for you, too. Good luck in your journey.

[Guest]

MissE
I so understand your struggle. Especially at the hands of another.
When i was 5yrs old i was molested by a man, who was a neighbor, over and over. Now at 5 yrs old, you would think a little girl would run home and tell her parents. But, he was a very nice man ( Ithought) at the time.. But even at 5 yrs old, i knew what he was doing was wrong.
I never told anyone,, NEVER, till about ten years after my husband and I were married. He was the ONLY one i ever told.
Through the years, it did terrible physilogical things to me ,, emotional things to me. I was afraid of Life, afraid of sex, afraid of my own husband.
There came a time, when i could not live with the hatred in my heart for this man any longer. He has died years and years earlier, we moved and of course never saw him again. Only in my mind did remember the awful things he did to a 5yr old little girl.
But, because I loved God so much, Because I loved my own children , there had to be peace found somewhere.. So, i sat down alone one night, and i wrote down everything he had done to me, the feelings id carried, the hatred and bitterness and anger i had carried all those years. I realized, that unless i forgave him in my heart, i would carry all these hurts and feelings around the rest of my life.. Did i want that?? NO! The only way i could heal my own heart, my own self worth, was to forgive this man, knowing that God would bless me, and God would deal or had delt with this man!!!
Vengence is Gods, not mine. But to live my life wholly and fully, i was forgiving him, for MYSELF!!!
The man that hurt you,,, of course yu will never trust him again, and you shouldnt!! You should NEVER see him again!!! He never has to know you forgive him,, God knows!!! But Your healing will begin, when you forgive him.. You wont forget the time quickly, and your healing may take awhile. But,, having the peace in your heart, and the solice that you did this for YOU will be great comfort to you.
After i wrote everything down, i then wrote a short prayer, asking God to help me forgive this person wholly, to be free of bitterness, anger and loathing.. folded it up, put it in an envelope and burned it. How freeing that was, it was as God was telling me,, this is no more.
Please, think about it, pray about it. But do this for YOU. God bless you, Nelly:)

[Guest]

Thank you everyone for this thread. I am so sorry for all of the horrible things that have happened to some of you. While nothing of that caliber has happened to me, thank God, I have a problem forgiving and letting go of anger for a comparatively small issue. I made a friend through this anxiety process who seemed to share my issues and on whom I became pretty reliant for advice, and vice versa. Then one day, this person decided not to converse with me anymore, with no explanation as to why, and just ignored me from that day forward. My feelings were hurt of course, and still are, but I can't get over how angry I am feeling. Like having this anxiety and then confiding in someone is not tough enough, to have that "friend" then in effect "ditch you" when they feel able regardless of how you feel just seems so cold and rotten to me. Like a reaffirmation of my old fears that no one (other than my husband and close, close friends and family) would like me if they REALLY knew me. I'm trying to forgive and move on, as being angry about it only hurts me. I'm going to try out some of the books and methods mentioned in here. Thank you all!!!

[Guest]

BTTRFLY,

I have posted on here about a break up I had with a friend who really helped me with my anxiety and taking care of my son who had autism. It has been a roller coaster, but one thing I know for certain is that she didn't want to be in my life anymore because I got better. When I was sick with anxiety, she felt like she had the power and got her self-esteem met by me needing her and her helping. After seeing this behavior in her, I then began to look into the issue of co-dependency, and it was very clear. I also found out that co-dependent "helpers" may actually unconsciously sabotage your attempts at getting better if they need you to need them. So, maybe that is something for you to consider with your past friendship because that could have been an issue.
Also, you're an adult who needs mature friendships. Even if you did something wrong that hurt that friend, as an adult she should have talked to you about it before she suddenly ended the friendship without an explanation. She was not being a mature adult, and you don't need a friend like that in your life. She was a "toxic" friend, and I do think the book "Safe People" by Henry Cloud will help you. I think when you realize that she wasn't a good friend to you, that it will be easier for you to forgive her because you will realize that she is not someone you want in your life anyway. You will want to focus on finding "positive" friendships which is what I'm working on right now, and you will be able to give that friend to God and go on with your life. Does that make sense? I hope something helped because I feel like a similar situation happened to me recently.
God Bless You,
luvpiggy

[Guest]

((Luvpiggy)) Thank you so much. I will look for that book. I do feel like my situation is a lot like yours was, this person has anxiety as well, and maybe me feeling better was not what they wanted after all, when I had thought this is what we wanted for each other. At any rate, your words are very helpful and I truly appreciate it!!!

[Guest]

MissE, I don't know if I could ever forgive someone who nearly physicaly (with hand and fingers) killed me, and I'm not too sure if they deserve to be forgiven. All I would like to say to you is that if you cannot forgive him, just try to stop feeling guilty and try to understand what could have brought him to that place where he would do that. I think we're all born with both good and bad, and I do think some people are predisposed to certain things, but to get to a point where he did really bad things, maybe there was something in his life that happened.

I still don't know if I would forgive, but I do know that negative feelings produce negative vibes.

Originally posted by MissE:
Hi everyone, I am having a terrible time with this lesson and hope maybe someone can help! I get very anxious when working on the workbook. I truly feel like there are things in my life i just can't forgive, maybe someday i will feel differently but i don't know. I don't understand how i can forgive someone who is not sorry for hurting me and who has shown that in the past with forgiveness they will hurt you again. I know "forgiveness is the gift you give yourself." I know it feels so good to forgive people. But in my heart, there are just some people i think i am unable to forgive. For example four years ago i was in a relationship with a man that almost killed me. If i say i forgive him, in my heart i feel like it's a lie. What he did was wrong and nothing will ever change that. I can say i learned something from it, i've come a long way, i don't think of him much anymore but it took me years to recover physically from what he did to me and that is something i will never forget. Me forgiving him feels like i am excusing that and saying it was ok. I did forgive him the first couple times when he said he was sorry...and then proceeded to do the same thing again, and i nearly died from it. How can i forgive? I guess a little forgiving of myself to do for staying with him. My coach said in order for God to forgive our sins we have to forgive others. But growing up i was taught in church that to be forgiven you have to repent and resolve not to do the action again, so it is hard for me to comprehend forgiving someone who has even told me they aren't sorry. I grew up with an abusive mother and i felt that every time i forgave her and let her back in my life, she would behave the same way again. Maybe I am equating forgiveness with saying "oh that was ok" or letting someone who hurt me back in my life...Is it ok to say "i let this go because i dont want to hurt anymore, i will learn from this but i will never let this person back in my life again," or in my mom's case "i let this go but i still have boundaries with her and won't let her get too close to me". As i write this i wonder if what i'm also asking is what does forgiveness mean? Can it be saying, " I choose to let this go and release this person from my life. This wasn't right but i'm not goign to dwell on it anymore. I can take the positive from it." I'm so worked up over this i keep crying. I guess i'm not over my anger as much as i thought. I really am trying, and there are many things i have forgiven, but there are some that i just don't know how to. And i truly don't think i ever could. Does anyone else feel like this? Is there a difference between forgiveness and letting go?

[Guest]

Wow, I'm not sure how I found this thread but God is moving in my life because he guided me here. I too came from an abusive marriage. I was almost killed and there were many times that I wish I would have been. When I got to the anger lesson I had to listen to it 6 times because it hit home so hard. I had pretended for years after the divorce that everything was ok, when it wasn't. It was only through counceling that I realized how scared my children were that something was going to happen to me and that this dirty little secret had seeped its way into all aspects of our lives. So it took me forever to even consider forgiving "him." For years I had just wished he was dead. And for years he still had this power over me because he knew that the fear was still there and he had been manipulating me through fear. This program has helped me so much because I am now aware that my fears were not even based upon real events (after the divorce anyway), they were more what if. So that was my first step towards healing. Then like I said after 6 times of listening to the anger lesson, I realized I had to forgive him to get the demons out of my mind. One day I just woke up and said I'm not going to be afraid anymore and I'm not going to resist him any more by fighting back because that is what he thrives on. And dare I say it, I forgave me for "allowing this to happen," as I had always put it. And then, I forgave him. I do not allow him into my life anymore by arguing and resisting. It took me a long time to get to this point and I know it could not have happened without the support that I get from this site. You all are amazing and I am sooo grateful for all of you. Thank you--Julie