Over the years i've noticed alot of the same pattern when it comes to expectations and the program. People seem frustrated and dissapointed when they haven't mastered skills after 1 week of practicing and haven't been able to follow completely so as a means to try helping i created this thread.
1) This program does not take away your anxiety. If it did that then you wouldn't be human anymore. What it does do however is gives you what you need in order to remove the fear from the anxiety. It's the fear that keeps it alive.
2)You aren't going to master positive self-talk when your automatic thinking is negative self-talk. It isn't going to be mastered after lesson 2 or lesson 3, it takes time. Just because you feel you aren't doing good doesn't mean you aren't doing good. Your feelings are what are out of wack so they aren't the best way to evaluate your progress.
3)Anxious people are NOT good at relaxing. We have so much more mental energy from the anxiety and it is difficult to calm ourselves down. I doubt that a single person doing this program is going to master relaxing within 1 or even 2 weeks. It takes time.
4)You aren't going to switch from being anxious and depressed to being happy and non-anxious. There is not a single person who has went through this program that can say they just switched...the problem creeped up on you slowly and that is how recovery works as well. You don't have to wait for 15 weeks in order to feel better, you can start to feel better today but keep in mind it might not be very noticeable in the beginning.
If i think of any others i'll post them later.
Mike
Expectations...what not to expect from the program
-
NinjaFrodo
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am
Here is the link to the Letting Go thread which is designated for venting
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087
You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog
http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087
You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog
http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/
-
Guest
So Mike how are you doing with all of this? You've done the program several times also. I'm really struggling. I've been trying to figure out how I've gotten so messed up again. A big part I think is waiting till the last minute to do everything, then I panic when I think I've missed or am too close to my deadline. I beat myself up because by now I should know better and then I'm depressed. It's a vicious cycle.
I recently went on Adderall for about 1 wk. It was supposed to help me stay focused. I could feel kinda a high feeling and maybe a tiny bit of concentration, not even sure. I do know the side effects were not worth it. I had such a dry throat it was awful. I kept thinking it would get better. After I went off I felt really depressed. I talked to the Pharmacist last night and he said yes that can happen. Well, who needs that? Plus later in the day I'd get this nervous feeling. He also said that happens quite often. Everytime the side effects don't seem worth it. I do take xanax as needed. I've taken it for many years but never more than 4X a month. It used to be like 4 days in a row and now for sometime it's maybe 2 days in a row and a wk. or so later another 2 days. Recently I was so stressed during the day I took a whole tab (usually only l/2 of .25mg) during the day and it wiped me out most of the day. It was better than screaming at my husband. I absolutely hate this stupid anxiety. I helped a young gal overcome panic attacks and now she's trying to help me. She said to give up xanax and Lucinda mentions that on one of the tapes. I think you're addicted if you need a high dose daily but since mine is so low so what if I've been on it for years and only take it as needed. I'm bipolar also and have ADHD. Even with a med for bi-polar I'll still have mood swings from time to time. I still need to practice relaxation. I didn't mean to get off on a med discussion here. I've been off my hormone pill for over a month now and never thought to mention that to the Dr. when I went in. My husband said why didn't I write it down? I can't afford to go back again, besides I hate going to doctors!! Well, I've been on that hormone pill for 20 yrs and had weaned myself to 2 a wk. maybe that IS the problem especially since I'm either freezing or hot half the time. Crap! As I'm talking I'm thinking maybe that IS what's adding to the anxiety, anger, mood swings.
I know for sure when I get negative it definitely leads to more anxiety as you say. I probably sound negative above. Frustrated is more the word but then I get that way easily too. I'd sure like to be a happy camper. HA! What's a happy camper anyway???
Well, I hope you're doing better and thanks for posting this.
Barb
I recently went on Adderall for about 1 wk. It was supposed to help me stay focused. I could feel kinda a high feeling and maybe a tiny bit of concentration, not even sure. I do know the side effects were not worth it. I had such a dry throat it was awful. I kept thinking it would get better. After I went off I felt really depressed. I talked to the Pharmacist last night and he said yes that can happen. Well, who needs that? Plus later in the day I'd get this nervous feeling. He also said that happens quite often. Everytime the side effects don't seem worth it. I do take xanax as needed. I've taken it for many years but never more than 4X a month. It used to be like 4 days in a row and now for sometime it's maybe 2 days in a row and a wk. or so later another 2 days. Recently I was so stressed during the day I took a whole tab (usually only l/2 of .25mg) during the day and it wiped me out most of the day. It was better than screaming at my husband. I absolutely hate this stupid anxiety. I helped a young gal overcome panic attacks and now she's trying to help me. She said to give up xanax and Lucinda mentions that on one of the tapes. I think you're addicted if you need a high dose daily but since mine is so low so what if I've been on it for years and only take it as needed. I'm bipolar also and have ADHD. Even with a med for bi-polar I'll still have mood swings from time to time. I still need to practice relaxation. I didn't mean to get off on a med discussion here. I've been off my hormone pill for over a month now and never thought to mention that to the Dr. when I went in. My husband said why didn't I write it down? I can't afford to go back again, besides I hate going to doctors!! Well, I've been on that hormone pill for 20 yrs and had weaned myself to 2 a wk. maybe that IS the problem especially since I'm either freezing or hot half the time. Crap! As I'm talking I'm thinking maybe that IS what's adding to the anxiety, anger, mood swings.
I know for sure when I get negative it definitely leads to more anxiety as you say. I probably sound negative above. Frustrated is more the word but then I get that way easily too. I'd sure like to be a happy camper. HA! What's a happy camper anyway???
Well, I hope you're doing better and thanks for posting this.
Barb
-
Guest
thanks for responding.
I'm doing alot better this time around. One really huge problem i had every time i've gone through the program was I avoided using the relaxation cd and so the program could only do so much. The very first time I did the program I wasn't too bad with the relaxation but I didn't take into account that the program gives us things to change our lifestyle so we can stay out of depression and not have our life ruled by anxiety. I figured ok i'm done the program and now i don't have to do anymore and then i fell back. I was a last minute person as well and I think that helped in bringing me down again but not to square 1.
I'm sorry your having trouble with the meds. I'm not a doctor and I do not have enough trainning to suggest treatment things when it comes to bipolar, all i can offer is an opinion. Your friend said to give up xanax...as much as i don't like medication, i think it would be a bad idea at least until you have mastered the skills in order to handle anxiety and depression. Pills don't solve the problem, they just act as a crutch and if you take that crutch away you'll be right back to limping.
I see you are very analytical like myself when it comes to anxiety. Regardless of where it came from, you can do the same things in order to overcome the anxiety and depression. I'm noticing that relaxation is the key...I've been using the relaxation cd on average 3X a day and it really does make a diffrence especially after you do it for 5 weeks (thats about the ammount of time i've done it for straight anyways)
People suffering from anxiety are generally easily irritated and frustrated, it's part of the package of symptoms we get. That's not a bad thing to be negative, it just isn't as helpful to you. Negative thinking happens with everybody so don't beat yourself up for that. You may want to be less negative but you are able to work on that and achieve that goal.
I hope this helps and your welcome for this thread.
Mike
I'm doing alot better this time around. One really huge problem i had every time i've gone through the program was I avoided using the relaxation cd and so the program could only do so much. The very first time I did the program I wasn't too bad with the relaxation but I didn't take into account that the program gives us things to change our lifestyle so we can stay out of depression and not have our life ruled by anxiety. I figured ok i'm done the program and now i don't have to do anymore and then i fell back. I was a last minute person as well and I think that helped in bringing me down again but not to square 1.
I'm sorry your having trouble with the meds. I'm not a doctor and I do not have enough trainning to suggest treatment things when it comes to bipolar, all i can offer is an opinion. Your friend said to give up xanax...as much as i don't like medication, i think it would be a bad idea at least until you have mastered the skills in order to handle anxiety and depression. Pills don't solve the problem, they just act as a crutch and if you take that crutch away you'll be right back to limping.
I see you are very analytical like myself when it comes to anxiety. Regardless of where it came from, you can do the same things in order to overcome the anxiety and depression. I'm noticing that relaxation is the key...I've been using the relaxation cd on average 3X a day and it really does make a diffrence especially after you do it for 5 weeks (thats about the ammount of time i've done it for straight anyways)
People suffering from anxiety are generally easily irritated and frustrated, it's part of the package of symptoms we get. That's not a bad thing to be negative, it just isn't as helpful to you. Negative thinking happens with everybody so don't beat yourself up for that. You may want to be less negative but you are able to work on that and achieve that goal.
I hope this helps and your welcome for this thread.
Mike
-
Guest
Wow, I can't believe you're doing the Relaxation CD that much. HA! Guess where mine is? I gave it to a friend whose new to this site. I gave her that,"Get Help Fast" and lesson 1. We haven't gone over it yet. Always too many things to do. So of course how could I possibly listen to the relax CD let alone 3X. I think I need to get it back. It's always easier to help someone else right? Thanks Mike!
-
Guest
The program (or at least the version i got) said to use the relaxation cd 3X a day as part of the "basics" for the whole program, that's the only reason why i do it that many times. It definately has it's rewards.
I think a majority of the people that suffer with anxiety and depression are very compassionate to other people and want to help them. Like you, I gave away a couple lessons (tape versions).
I'd say, it's always easier to give people advice and material that can help them out but really hard to get them to follow through at times.
Your welcome
Mike
I think a majority of the people that suffer with anxiety and depression are very compassionate to other people and want to help them. Like you, I gave away a couple lessons (tape versions).
I'd say, it's always easier to give people advice and material that can help them out but really hard to get them to follow through at times.
Your welcome
Mike
-
Guest
Mike -
I've definitely not been very consistent with my use of the relaxation CD, specifically for two reasons. First, I'm so tired all of the time that whenever I try to use it I either fall asleep or become so tired I don't want to get up. Second, I've used many other similar relaxation techniques in the 21 years I've been dealing with anxiety that the material on the CD is old news.
But my real question to you is now that that you've been using the CD regularly, do you find that you can draw on your skills when you're out in the real world and start panicking? I can relax using the CD techniques at home very quickly. But if I try it out of the home, say at work or while driving, I can't relax. One very specific problem I have is relaxing my breathing when I'm driving. When doing the relaxation exercises at home, the instructions say to be in a fully reclined position or lying down. But in the car, I'm sitting upright and can't breath in nearly as fully. What has your experience been?
Jamie
I've definitely not been very consistent with my use of the relaxation CD, specifically for two reasons. First, I'm so tired all of the time that whenever I try to use it I either fall asleep or become so tired I don't want to get up. Second, I've used many other similar relaxation techniques in the 21 years I've been dealing with anxiety that the material on the CD is old news.
But my real question to you is now that that you've been using the CD regularly, do you find that you can draw on your skills when you're out in the real world and start panicking? I can relax using the CD techniques at home very quickly. But if I try it out of the home, say at work or while driving, I can't relax. One very specific problem I have is relaxing my breathing when I'm driving. When doing the relaxation exercises at home, the instructions say to be in a fully reclined position or lying down. But in the car, I'm sitting upright and can't breath in nearly as fully. What has your experience been?
Jamie
-
Guest
Jamie
just let me jump in here for a sec. I too am annoyed that we are supposed to recline and or lie back and relax when we do that exercise. In fact in my book I wrote all in CAPS.."YOU CAN"T DO THAT WHEN YOU ARE DRIVING HELLO!" I did take the relaxation cd with me to listen too while I drive but I have such a short distance like 3.7 miles that I feel okay doing that. I also would like to know how I am to record my negative thoughts in the car "WHEN I AM DRIVING?" The car and driving dilema really seems to be hard to work on doesn't it? argh!! Just wanted to share with you my similar frustration.
:p
J~
just let me jump in here for a sec. I too am annoyed that we are supposed to recline and or lie back and relax when we do that exercise. In fact in my book I wrote all in CAPS.."YOU CAN"T DO THAT WHEN YOU ARE DRIVING HELLO!" I did take the relaxation cd with me to listen too while I drive but I have such a short distance like 3.7 miles that I feel okay doing that. I also would like to know how I am to record my negative thoughts in the car "WHEN I AM DRIVING?" The car and driving dilema really seems to be hard to work on doesn't it? argh!! Just wanted to share with you my similar frustration.
:pJ~
-
Guest
Hey SeaRunner, nice to see you again.
It seems like just before sleep isn't a good time for you to do the relaxation then and I relate to the relaxation cd being old news as i've listened to it alot over the last 6 weeks and actually last 5 years. It's not set in stone that only the relaxation cd can help you, no it's just the content within the relaxation cd (breathing, progressive muscle relaxation and visualization). I have some meditations that are just visualization, some that are just progressive muscle relaxation, some that just have both visualization & PMR but none of them have the 3 things that the relaxation cd has. It can be extremely boring, some days I struggle to pay attention and other days I can do it quite well, I just imagine it as if I was listening to it for the first time and I overcome the thoughts that it's boring.
It's interesting how you asked that question because I had many situations yestaurday that in the past would have made me extremely panicy.
1) At my gym I asked to speak with someone about my membership payments and then I told the guy that I cannot pay it right now
2) I had to email another person who deals with the finances and I practiced being assertive in that
3) I was going to hangout with a friend i hadn't seen for over a decade but ended up talking to him over the phone (I have social anxiety as well as generalized)
4) My income had been suspended and I dealt with that (that was the most anxiety producing)
5) I went to an old highschool aquantance's store to say hi to him and I feel very uncomfortable talking to him because we were never really good friends and I had a hard time coming up with things to talk about.
It wasn't easy but with all those things I was able to calm myself down to a point where I could approach them and I wasn't lying down for any of those times. I actually felt like the breathing techniques are difficult to do when standing up, walking and sitting down and I had to modify it as like you said "can't breath in nearly as fully". I still breathed in for 2 but I had to speed up the breathing a bit. I would breath in for 2...hold for 4...out for 4...hold for 4 and I just realized i can do this yestaurday and it works. At the end of the day I was completely spaced out and felt as if I was stoned but I was able to accept that I was feeling that way and it's ok.
I want to touch down on the situation involving the membership payments. I had went to the front desk to ask if there was anybody i could talk to about my membership payments and that was a little anxiety producing but when he came out and asked me what he could help me with infront of the people at front I got a quick spike in my anxiety and i stumbled over my words but i asked if we could talk about it in another room and we sat down and I found that I calmed down very quickly and I was able to speak what I wanted to speak.
I'm almost at 6 weeks of working with the relaxation cd and I'm good at relaxing when I'm at home but I'm just starting to face my limitations and so I've not yet mastered the skills to prevent my anxiety from going to a level 8 or 9 but I can calm myself down and the self talk is more believable too.
Mike
It seems like just before sleep isn't a good time for you to do the relaxation then and I relate to the relaxation cd being old news as i've listened to it alot over the last 6 weeks and actually last 5 years. It's not set in stone that only the relaxation cd can help you, no it's just the content within the relaxation cd (breathing, progressive muscle relaxation and visualization). I have some meditations that are just visualization, some that are just progressive muscle relaxation, some that just have both visualization & PMR but none of them have the 3 things that the relaxation cd has. It can be extremely boring, some days I struggle to pay attention and other days I can do it quite well, I just imagine it as if I was listening to it for the first time and I overcome the thoughts that it's boring.
It's interesting how you asked that question because I had many situations yestaurday that in the past would have made me extremely panicy.
1) At my gym I asked to speak with someone about my membership payments and then I told the guy that I cannot pay it right now
2) I had to email another person who deals with the finances and I practiced being assertive in that
3) I was going to hangout with a friend i hadn't seen for over a decade but ended up talking to him over the phone (I have social anxiety as well as generalized)
4) My income had been suspended and I dealt with that (that was the most anxiety producing)
5) I went to an old highschool aquantance's store to say hi to him and I feel very uncomfortable talking to him because we were never really good friends and I had a hard time coming up with things to talk about.
It wasn't easy but with all those things I was able to calm myself down to a point where I could approach them and I wasn't lying down for any of those times. I actually felt like the breathing techniques are difficult to do when standing up, walking and sitting down and I had to modify it as like you said "can't breath in nearly as fully". I still breathed in for 2 but I had to speed up the breathing a bit. I would breath in for 2...hold for 4...out for 4...hold for 4 and I just realized i can do this yestaurday and it works. At the end of the day I was completely spaced out and felt as if I was stoned but I was able to accept that I was feeling that way and it's ok.
I want to touch down on the situation involving the membership payments. I had went to the front desk to ask if there was anybody i could talk to about my membership payments and that was a little anxiety producing but when he came out and asked me what he could help me with infront of the people at front I got a quick spike in my anxiety and i stumbled over my words but i asked if we could talk about it in another room and we sat down and I found that I calmed down very quickly and I was able to speak what I wanted to speak.
I'm almost at 6 weeks of working with the relaxation cd and I'm good at relaxing when I'm at home but I'm just starting to face my limitations and so I've not yet mastered the skills to prevent my anxiety from going to a level 8 or 9 but I can calm myself down and the self talk is more believable too.
Mike
-
Guest
jillzmind
If I were to lie back to be in a recline position everytime I had anxiety, I would be on my back for the whole day. It isn't possible to do that all the time. Also on lesson 5 there is an action assignment that says to listen to the relaxation cd while you're eatting. I don't know about you but I usually don't eat in a lying down or reclined position. The best times to use them are times when you aren't preoccupied with tasks such as driving but you can use them during those times and it can still help you out even if it isn't as affective as lying down.
As for the negative thoughts, we cannot do this 100% of the time. I don't know how much diffrent the new version of the program is compared to the one i have but Lucinda does say write down all your negative thoughts. I was concerned about this as well and Carolyn Dickman suggested to do 5 thoughts in a day. 5 of the strongest thoughts and that'll help to make that skill more second nature later on.
Mike
If I were to lie back to be in a recline position everytime I had anxiety, I would be on my back for the whole day. It isn't possible to do that all the time. Also on lesson 5 there is an action assignment that says to listen to the relaxation cd while you're eatting. I don't know about you but I usually don't eat in a lying down or reclined position. The best times to use them are times when you aren't preoccupied with tasks such as driving but you can use them during those times and it can still help you out even if it isn't as affective as lying down.
As for the negative thoughts, we cannot do this 100% of the time. I don't know how much diffrent the new version of the program is compared to the one i have but Lucinda does say write down all your negative thoughts. I was concerned about this as well and Carolyn Dickman suggested to do 5 thoughts in a day. 5 of the strongest thoughts and that'll help to make that skill more second nature later on.
Mike
-
Guest
Jill and Mike -
Thanks for the responses. I'm going to try experimenting doing the relaxation exercises in a sitting position - just as if I was driving. I think that might help get me used to the different feelings.
Also, I wanted to ask you both if you experience an anxiety provoking symptom when you try relaxing during panic episodes outside the home. Specifically, and again this happens when I'm either driving in the car or riding my motorcycle, I feel like I can't breath out all of the way. It's like my abdominal muscles are so tense, they won't let me get my full breath out. It's very uncomfortable and then it gets me started worrying about whether I'll be able to get enough breath when I start to inhale. I've had this symptom a long time and never been able to conquer it.
Mike - Great job on handling your panic during the situations you described. That's impressive that you can extend your relaxation techniques outside the home. Keep up the good work. I suppose it's another testament to why we should be practicing our relaxation exercise so regularly. I really need to get on that!
Jamie
Thanks for the responses. I'm going to try experimenting doing the relaxation exercises in a sitting position - just as if I was driving. I think that might help get me used to the different feelings.
Also, I wanted to ask you both if you experience an anxiety provoking symptom when you try relaxing during panic episodes outside the home. Specifically, and again this happens when I'm either driving in the car or riding my motorcycle, I feel like I can't breath out all of the way. It's like my abdominal muscles are so tense, they won't let me get my full breath out. It's very uncomfortable and then it gets me started worrying about whether I'll be able to get enough breath when I start to inhale. I've had this symptom a long time and never been able to conquer it.
Mike - Great job on handling your panic during the situations you described. That's impressive that you can extend your relaxation techniques outside the home. Keep up the good work. I suppose it's another testament to why we should be practicing our relaxation exercise so regularly. I really need to get on that!
Jamie