Doogiet. I don't believe that parents should lie to their children about their abilities, but I believe with my whole heart that parents should tell their children how special they are (I happen to believe and tell my son how fantastic he is and how great our lives are because he is in it)and build their self-esteem. If a child is given tools to learn positive self-talk, soothing self-talk when they are feeling down, then that is a wonderful gift that parents can give to their children. The world outside the safety and comfort of home can be harsh. What better way to prepapre a child for the harshness by building up their self-esteem and get them in the habit of positive self-talk early so they can avoid going through Session 3 as an adult.
Good luck to you.
LisaLisa
Lucinda is dead wrong on this...
doogiet, you are confusing a lot of issues here that have little to do with each other. Sorry you've obviously had some disappointments in life. We all do. The difference in how we manage is how we perceive these. And, the rational reasonable truth isn't going to harm a child. Telling a child I'm lucky to have you is a reasonable true statement.
By the way, comparing life to movie scripts is very unrealistic. People (ordinary people) write those scripts. They write them to earn money and attract audiences, not to impress anyone with their rational reasonable thoughts.
By the way, comparing life to movie scripts is very unrealistic. People (ordinary people) write those scripts. They write them to earn money and attract audiences, not to impress anyone with their rational reasonable thoughts.
I think that to tell a child that they are better than everyone else, that they are more intelligent, more capable, etc., in comparison to other people, gives a child the wrong baromemter with which to gauge and measure themselves and may give them a "false" sense of superiority. But to tell a child that they are special, unique, capable, intelligent, etc. does not compare them to others but merely communcates to the child that they have worth and capability which is unique to them. It's what a child has to have in order to function and face hardship, both as a child and as an adult.
Healthy self-esteem is not dependent upon performance, in my opinion. Being overly dependent upon performance and achievement creates a false identity, in my opinion, not who we really are, out of touch with ourselves.
IF we have healthy self-esteem and respect for ourselves, when we face challenges on the job, in relationships, or whatever, we will have the internal strength to face the struggle and deal with it effectively, and still respect and think well of ourselves no matter the outcome. But if we don't have that type of emotional stability and things don't go our way, we may crumble eventually, believing a lie that we have little worth or capability as a result of how the situation turned out for us.
I can identify with what you are saying because it has happened to me as well. As a child I was average. In high school, for whatever reason, everything went my way it seemed. I was in the national honor society all four years, dated a beautiful girl until I graduated, achieved honors in a sport and helped lead a team to a state tournament, was president of the honor society my senior year. This gave me a false sense of self and I "expected" from here on to excel in whatever I did. When I got out into the real world my performance wasn't as good as some and I began to doubt myself. I've struggled for much of my adult life.
What I believe I have learned about myself and the world is that growing up I was over protected. I wasn't allowed to fight and struggle on my own but my parents decided for me, did things for me, until I reached age 18 or so. Then they said, "Ok, we've done our part, now it's time for you to fly from the nest". But if you don't try and fly while still in the nest and get those wings strong, when you try and fly once you're an adult those wings will not initially support and sustain you. Over protection can cripple a child so that they grow up emotionally crippled, dependent upon others for their own self esteem. They don't derive their emotional strength from within themsleves, but they look outside themselves for it. They are like a person with bi-polar disorder. One day they're up because their performance was good, or someone was please with them, the next day they're down because their performance was bad or someone was displeased with them. They are overly dependent upon their circumstances [external factors] for their self-esteem and self-worth.
This was and still is me to a degree and that may or may not be why I have been diagnosed over the years with bi-polar disorder. I don't about the bi-polar, but I do know about being protected as a child and being over dependent. That's how I grew up.
But, thanks to the program and exercise I've learned new skills which I'm still trying to practice and get a handle on sometimes. These skills plus physical exercise pulled me out of a deep hole of depression and healed me of moderate anxiety. They've enabled me to more objectively look at my life and my failures and still have a healthy respect and esteem for myself becaue the esteem is not dependent upon my past, present, or future performance. All we can do is try and give it our best shot, we can not control the outcome.
My son, inspite of some mistakes I made, is doing well. He's 24. I have my wife to thank for much of the reason, but I spent an enormous amount of time with him as a child up until he was about 14 years old. I was concerned about him and I didn't want him to face the same emotional pain I did. This was before I got the program. All the time he was growing up I was reading books on self esteem. Even though I didn't feel "good enough" to be a parent, the one thing I thought at the time that I missed in my childhood was adequate parental involvement and the amount of time my parents spent with me.
I was right about that. My parents were always working. With the exception of playing little league baseball [my dad was coach of our team], I still feel that I grew up pretty much on my own as far as either of my parents playing games with me, helping me with homework, or telling me how smart or capable I was. What they did do was try and protect me and do things for me. I don't remember ever being disciplined for not cleaning up my room or making my bed. My Mother attempted to get me to make my bed by paying me money for doing it. That didn't last long with me. I was overly shy. I didn't initiate asking a girl out on a date in high school. The girl initiated it and I took it from there. I was afraid of rejection. My Mother found a job for me at age 16, I didn't go out and get it. After the girlfriend dropped me after I graduated, I came down with panic atacks. After that a college coach calls me and asks me to tryout for a college basketball team. On the way there I'm struggling with panic attacks. My Mother decides "I'm not capable" of making the trip and we come back home.
What's the significance of what I've just described? Enmeshed boundaries. I don't know where I end and my parents begin. I didn't realize at the time that I had the right to make my own decisions. A lot of "stuff" goes into how we turn out as adults. If our parents show belief and faith in us all along the growing up years, by what they say and how they behave, we stand a good chance of being healthy emotionally. But, there are no guarantees.
I'm sorry for what's happened to you, Doogiet. But, I suspect there's alot more to it than what you have described. In order for us to face failure and life struggles, we have to believe in ourselves and believe that we are capable to solve our problems, which requires a healthy, positive mind set and healthy emotions. If we stop believing in ourselves, how capable we are, how intelligent we are, how unique we are, we will probably turn on ourselves and become our own worst enemy. It's not the circumstances so much that cause emotional pain, it's how we choose to think about the circumstances, whether we have the internal tools to deal with whatever comes our way. I apologize for the length of this post.
Pecos said it all when she said:
Healthy self-esteem is not dependent upon performance, in my opinion. Being overly dependent upon performance and achievement creates a false identity, in my opinion, not who we really are, out of touch with ourselves.
IF we have healthy self-esteem and respect for ourselves, when we face challenges on the job, in relationships, or whatever, we will have the internal strength to face the struggle and deal with it effectively, and still respect and think well of ourselves no matter the outcome. But if we don't have that type of emotional stability and things don't go our way, we may crumble eventually, believing a lie that we have little worth or capability as a result of how the situation turned out for us.
I can identify with what you are saying because it has happened to me as well. As a child I was average. In high school, for whatever reason, everything went my way it seemed. I was in the national honor society all four years, dated a beautiful girl until I graduated, achieved honors in a sport and helped lead a team to a state tournament, was president of the honor society my senior year. This gave me a false sense of self and I "expected" from here on to excel in whatever I did. When I got out into the real world my performance wasn't as good as some and I began to doubt myself. I've struggled for much of my adult life.
What I believe I have learned about myself and the world is that growing up I was over protected. I wasn't allowed to fight and struggle on my own but my parents decided for me, did things for me, until I reached age 18 or so. Then they said, "Ok, we've done our part, now it's time for you to fly from the nest". But if you don't try and fly while still in the nest and get those wings strong, when you try and fly once you're an adult those wings will not initially support and sustain you. Over protection can cripple a child so that they grow up emotionally crippled, dependent upon others for their own self esteem. They don't derive their emotional strength from within themsleves, but they look outside themselves for it. They are like a person with bi-polar disorder. One day they're up because their performance was good, or someone was please with them, the next day they're down because their performance was bad or someone was displeased with them. They are overly dependent upon their circumstances [external factors] for their self-esteem and self-worth.
This was and still is me to a degree and that may or may not be why I have been diagnosed over the years with bi-polar disorder. I don't about the bi-polar, but I do know about being protected as a child and being over dependent. That's how I grew up.
But, thanks to the program and exercise I've learned new skills which I'm still trying to practice and get a handle on sometimes. These skills plus physical exercise pulled me out of a deep hole of depression and healed me of moderate anxiety. They've enabled me to more objectively look at my life and my failures and still have a healthy respect and esteem for myself becaue the esteem is not dependent upon my past, present, or future performance. All we can do is try and give it our best shot, we can not control the outcome.
My son, inspite of some mistakes I made, is doing well. He's 24. I have my wife to thank for much of the reason, but I spent an enormous amount of time with him as a child up until he was about 14 years old. I was concerned about him and I didn't want him to face the same emotional pain I did. This was before I got the program. All the time he was growing up I was reading books on self esteem. Even though I didn't feel "good enough" to be a parent, the one thing I thought at the time that I missed in my childhood was adequate parental involvement and the amount of time my parents spent with me.
I was right about that. My parents were always working. With the exception of playing little league baseball [my dad was coach of our team], I still feel that I grew up pretty much on my own as far as either of my parents playing games with me, helping me with homework, or telling me how smart or capable I was. What they did do was try and protect me and do things for me. I don't remember ever being disciplined for not cleaning up my room or making my bed. My Mother attempted to get me to make my bed by paying me money for doing it. That didn't last long with me. I was overly shy. I didn't initiate asking a girl out on a date in high school. The girl initiated it and I took it from there. I was afraid of rejection. My Mother found a job for me at age 16, I didn't go out and get it. After the girlfriend dropped me after I graduated, I came down with panic atacks. After that a college coach calls me and asks me to tryout for a college basketball team. On the way there I'm struggling with panic attacks. My Mother decides "I'm not capable" of making the trip and we come back home.
What's the significance of what I've just described? Enmeshed boundaries. I don't know where I end and my parents begin. I didn't realize at the time that I had the right to make my own decisions. A lot of "stuff" goes into how we turn out as adults. If our parents show belief and faith in us all along the growing up years, by what they say and how they behave, we stand a good chance of being healthy emotionally. But, there are no guarantees.
I'm sorry for what's happened to you, Doogiet. But, I suspect there's alot more to it than what you have described. In order for us to face failure and life struggles, we have to believe in ourselves and believe that we are capable to solve our problems, which requires a healthy, positive mind set and healthy emotions. If we stop believing in ourselves, how capable we are, how intelligent we are, how unique we are, we will probably turn on ourselves and become our own worst enemy. It's not the circumstances so much that cause emotional pain, it's how we choose to think about the circumstances, whether we have the internal tools to deal with whatever comes our way. I apologize for the length of this post.
Pecos said it all when she said:
Sorry you've obviously had some disappointments in life. We all do. The difference in how we manage is how we perceive these.
Life's battles don't always go to the stronger, the smarter, the faster hand; But sooner or later the person who wins is the one who thinks "I can." Author Unknown
http://dp19032k9.webs.com
http://dp19032k9.webs.com
One thing I failed to mention is that the over protection included an over reliance on my parents for emotional stability. As children we rely on our parents for such stability and security, but as adolescents it is up to us to begin taking care of ourselves emotionally. I never figured out how to do that. That's what the program has helped me to do.
I'd recommend a book called, "Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy" by Dr. David D. Burns. He explains self-esteem and a lot more very well. Some of the chapters are "Understanding your moods you feel the way you think", "The approval addiction", "The love addiction", "Your work is not your worth", [and neither is your music performance].
I would suggest the reason for being nervous and anxious around beautiful women is due to a lack of self-esteem and a desire to fill that emptiness with the affection and approval of someone you highly esteem. This has the potential to lead to over dependence on that external approval or lack thereof for your own self esteem and how and what you think about yourself, good or bad, i.e "fall apart". Been there, done that.
I'd recommend a book called, "Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy" by Dr. David D. Burns. He explains self-esteem and a lot more very well. Some of the chapters are "Understanding your moods you feel the way you think", "The approval addiction", "The love addiction", "Your work is not your worth", [and neither is your music performance].
I would suggest the reason for being nervous and anxious around beautiful women is due to a lack of self-esteem and a desire to fill that emptiness with the affection and approval of someone you highly esteem. This has the potential to lead to over dependence on that external approval or lack thereof for your own self esteem and how and what you think about yourself, good or bad, i.e "fall apart". Been there, done that.
Life's battles don't always go to the stronger, the smarter, the faster hand; But sooner or later the person who wins is the one who thinks "I can." Author Unknown
http://dp19032k9.webs.com
http://dp19032k9.webs.com
I'm hesitant to reply to this because I'm sure it'll make me come off like a whiny something-or-other, but I have lots that I'm angry about.
No, I didn't have an alcoholic parent. No, I wasn't beaten. I had/have everything going for me. I'm good looking (somewhat), my parents are wealthy, I've had a good education, etc., etc.
It just seems to me that so many of the decisions that I've made in my life are wrong and I wish I could live it over. It's like all my therapy is making me realize that so many of my judgments about the world were wrong when I thought I had everything figured out. I'm sure this is going to be written off as just another person who's angry and bitter, but so be it.
I suppose it's the whole "why did this happen to me?" bit. I've been on Prozac since I was 19 (I'm 33). I've had crippling panic attacks since I was in high school. I can't count the number of things I've missed out on in life (dates, job experiences, girlfriends, life experiences) because I've been so busy panicking. And all because of how I've been thinking? This sucks.
I mean, I thought I was a good musician. Wrong. I love videogames and had to fight an uphill battle with my friends and family about how they deserve respect. When I finally threw in the towel and left the gaming industry, wham, out come Guitar Hero and the Wii and now games are mainstream and I feel like I've missed the boat. I look back at all the girls I could have dated (I guess this is a big one for me), but either was too blind to what was going on or was too stuck in my own head and panicking to realize that if you were to discount all the panic, I'm actually not half bad a catch.
I don't know if it's obsessive thinking, but I think all the time about how I wish I could live my life differently. But we all do that, I suppose. So in this case I'm just another angry Gen-Xer who is growing up and learning that, hey, guess what, Sesame Street was wrong. I can't be whatever I want. I'm just another person on a planet of six billion, and contrary to my previously held belief, no one cares. No one cares if I get better except me. No one cares if make the most out of my life.
I guess I'm finally learning that my sense of entitlement is unfounded, that the world doesn't owe me anything, etc., etc. I've heard it before and that doesn't make it any easier and it totally sucks.
I am not a unique snowflake. I am not special. I'm not even alone in my suffering. I am just one of millions of people who have an anxiety disorder.
I don't have a job. I don't need a job because my parents are wealthy and I live in a condo that they own and I don't pay rent. But I'm watching my life slip by and my friends and family pass me on the road of life and I feel powerless to stop it. I want to move out of my city but my girlfriend is 38, still lives in her parents' basement, is essentially economically trapped, and I feel as though I'm her last shot at any sort of romance and that I can't break up with her because it would make me a jerk after she's helped me for so long. I don't want to be "just another guy" who is helped by a girl, then dumps her when he's feeling better, so I'm martyring myself like a suicide bomber to keep her happy. I know if were to split up that it would force myself to bite the bullet, leave town, get a job, etc., but I can't seem to force myself to do it, probably because I have low self-esteem that tells me that I'm never going to find anyone who will tolerate me and all of my flaws.
My sister (a total witch) is out living the life of Riley on my parents' money and I seem to be stuck in the mud of my own misery.
So that's why I'm bitter and angry. And, again, I'm just another person with anxiety disorder and no one cares.
But at least I'm honest.
No, I didn't have an alcoholic parent. No, I wasn't beaten. I had/have everything going for me. I'm good looking (somewhat), my parents are wealthy, I've had a good education, etc., etc.
It just seems to me that so many of the decisions that I've made in my life are wrong and I wish I could live it over. It's like all my therapy is making me realize that so many of my judgments about the world were wrong when I thought I had everything figured out. I'm sure this is going to be written off as just another person who's angry and bitter, but so be it.
I suppose it's the whole "why did this happen to me?" bit. I've been on Prozac since I was 19 (I'm 33). I've had crippling panic attacks since I was in high school. I can't count the number of things I've missed out on in life (dates, job experiences, girlfriends, life experiences) because I've been so busy panicking. And all because of how I've been thinking? This sucks.
I mean, I thought I was a good musician. Wrong. I love videogames and had to fight an uphill battle with my friends and family about how they deserve respect. When I finally threw in the towel and left the gaming industry, wham, out come Guitar Hero and the Wii and now games are mainstream and I feel like I've missed the boat. I look back at all the girls I could have dated (I guess this is a big one for me), but either was too blind to what was going on or was too stuck in my own head and panicking to realize that if you were to discount all the panic, I'm actually not half bad a catch.
I don't know if it's obsessive thinking, but I think all the time about how I wish I could live my life differently. But we all do that, I suppose. So in this case I'm just another angry Gen-Xer who is growing up and learning that, hey, guess what, Sesame Street was wrong. I can't be whatever I want. I'm just another person on a planet of six billion, and contrary to my previously held belief, no one cares. No one cares if I get better except me. No one cares if make the most out of my life.
I guess I'm finally learning that my sense of entitlement is unfounded, that the world doesn't owe me anything, etc., etc. I've heard it before and that doesn't make it any easier and it totally sucks.
I am not a unique snowflake. I am not special. I'm not even alone in my suffering. I am just one of millions of people who have an anxiety disorder.
I don't have a job. I don't need a job because my parents are wealthy and I live in a condo that they own and I don't pay rent. But I'm watching my life slip by and my friends and family pass me on the road of life and I feel powerless to stop it. I want to move out of my city but my girlfriend is 38, still lives in her parents' basement, is essentially economically trapped, and I feel as though I'm her last shot at any sort of romance and that I can't break up with her because it would make me a jerk after she's helped me for so long. I don't want to be "just another guy" who is helped by a girl, then dumps her when he's feeling better, so I'm martyring myself like a suicide bomber to keep her happy. I know if were to split up that it would force myself to bite the bullet, leave town, get a job, etc., but I can't seem to force myself to do it, probably because I have low self-esteem that tells me that I'm never going to find anyone who will tolerate me and all of my flaws.
My sister (a total witch) is out living the life of Riley on my parents' money and I seem to be stuck in the mud of my own misery.
So that's why I'm bitter and angry. And, again, I'm just another person with anxiety disorder and no one cares.
But at least I'm honest.
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weeshcabob
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:05 am
When you realize that it's really your own thinking that's creating your perception of things it can be very paralyzing. You're afraid to make any decisions because you're afraid you'll be wrong and make a mistake you can't take back. That IS what being healthy is...making choices: some work out, some don't, modify, experiment, embarrass yourself (you think). I know because it is so hard for me to make a decision that concerns anyone else. We are so busy trying to keep our finger in every hole of the dam that we can't move away from the dam. One way to undermine your decisions is to think you have to make such huge sweeping decisions like moving out of your parents, or leaving your girlfriend. Too scary! We tend to swing from one extreme of thinking to another. "I have to keep my finger in the dam or I might hurt someone, or the world will come to an end." We swing to "I'm so tired of being attached to this dam I'm going to blow a hole right through the middle of the dam and drown the whole valley." Sit and sift through your life and look at what is good. It is wonderful you have family money, freedom to do what you want. Your girlfriend will be fine whatever your decision is. Talking to her might open up possibilities you never thought of. Whatever you do do it in very, very small steps. Take a class at a local college and do not worry about grades, look around you and see if there is something or someone who could use your help in some way (small things like mowing a lawn, driving someone to the doctor). Well that's my two bits for what it's worth. After all, I'm struggling too. Good luck. Thanks for being honest!
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Mary Wargo
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:37 pm
I don't think you are a whiny something or other at all. We should be able here on the forum to express our thoughts, and this topic has been very thought provoking. There comes a time when we have to stop blaming how we grew up and start taking responsibility for changing ourselves. I was one who spent a lot of time thinking about how different it would have been if only my parents had raised me in a different way, if only they would have encouraged more cultural activities, if only we had lived in a different part of the country, if only I had heard more positive words- etc etc. I realized at some point that there were a lot of people out there who had less than perfect (and some downright horrible) backgrounds, and they were doing quite well. The difference I saw was that these people did not view their upbringing as an obstacle nor a hinderance, and felt it was up to themselves to change things. It is all in our perception and how we view things. If we feel our background has caused us permanent damage, then that is how we will live. If we feel it is up to ourselves to make ourselves happy and content, then that is what we will do. I found that it's possible to find self esteem no matter what your age if you are ready to take responsibility for finding it. Blaming outside forces will keep us stuck and can act as an excuse for not accepting the fact that it is up to us and us alone for how we feel.
I've read David Burns' books also and they were life changing for my thinking- as is this program.
I've read David Burns' books also and they were life changing for my thinking- as is this program.
((Doogie)) I for one DO care if you get better. I don't know you, but you are a unique individual who has his own personal anxiety story, and by opening up and sharing some about yourself I can honestly say that I care if you get better. You have a lot to deal with, and after reading your post I understand a little better where you are coming from. My parents gave us everything and never let us "fall on our butts" so to speak, so to that end I agree with Don's theory about literally having the rug pulled out from under you when you realize that you are an adult who has never had the chance to have to rely on yourself. That was yet one more horrifying lesson learned when I lost my Mom. I do see where you are coming from...but you sound like an amazing guy with a ton to offer the world, so stop martyring and staying in a position that is perpetuating your unhappiness! (easy for me to say, right?) It is okay to put yourself first sometimes, especially when it is for your emotional well being. 
Tara
Tara
"If nothing ever changed...there would be no Butterflies." Author unknown