I've had Panic Disorder for several years, so severe that I am living at home with my mother and can't work at this point.
This started after I witnessed an accident however I feel that was just a trigger and I honestly believe my problem goes back at least 10 or 15 years. I have a mother that is very over-attached and smothering, I've spent years fighting that and for as long as I can remember I had so much anger towards her... I expressed this to her in the past many times but she has always been in complete denial.
I've given up on her. I do feel though that the reason I've had such a hard time recovering is because I live in the toxic environment, unfortunately at this point I'm so sick that I need her financial help.
The anger towards her is still inside me, I've just learned to keep it down and not show it much, it gets me nowhere... it does make me sick though that she caused this much pain to me and she doesn't even realize it, conversely she thinks she is the "good guy" in all of this. I also know that it's going to be hell to get her off my back, my only hope is to move far away and try to cut off my relationship with her... it's that or my sanity.
Any advice on letting go of the anger? To this day she is still so attached that it's suffocating, but telling her this is of no use. I try to grin and bear it but deep down I'm still extremely angry, I lost a lot of my childhood, a lot of opportunities etc. b/c of her over-attachment.
To give you an example of how she can be, a few months back I stayed at my girlfriends family's place to watch movies, go to the park etc., when I returned she was crying, screaming and completely hysterical accusing me of "roaming the streets" and "selling drugs" it turns out she had also called family in the middle of the night telling them I could be out selling drugs or who knows what (despite the fact she knew this was not true, she tends to create ideas in her head and treat them as reality)... it's hard b/c one "wrong" move on my part and others in the family will pay for it too. She's done this to me for so many years that I always feel guilty, even if I just go to the store I feel like I am doing something wrong that deserves punishment and feel constant guilt, I've been brainwashed that way my whole life. I can only imagine the day I move out, she could seriously lose her mind (I am 24/male by the way, but still at home because my panic has become nearly disabling).
Do I just continue trying to ignore her? Can I even recover while living with her?
I believe my mother "caused" my panic disorder
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Guest
Hi,
Sorry that you are having a hard time. It's hard when our parents teach us how to be anxious, and it's definitely hard when we don't have the coping skills and boundaries to keep their toxic behaviors from hurting us. The good news is that you can definitely learn the coping skills and learn good boundaries to help yourself get well. I suggest you get this program, a good therapist, and I highly recommend the book, "Boundaries" by Dr.'s Henry Cloud and Dr. Townsend. They also have a book on mothers that you could look up. I think one example in the book is "The China Doll Mother", and that sounds like what you are dealing with here.
First of all, it's important for you to realize that you are now an adult. As a child, you were completely dependent on your mother, but now that you are an adult, you really do have the freedom and the power to break free. Your anger is understandable, but at the same time, you said that your mother is in complete denial of her actions. That means that although her behavior is toxic, she does not know any other way to parent you, and she is not in a place where she can realize the damage she has done or is doing. Most parents do not want to hurt their children, and it is often very hard for them to acknowledge it when it does happen. Ideally, a good parent would admit it when they make mistakes and make amends when appropriate, but that really is rare. I don't want to sound callous, but she's not trying to hurt you on purpose, but trying to get her own selfish needs met. Every time she worries about you, she feels like she's being a great mother, and it's just going to be very difficult to convince her otherwise. From my own personal story, my mother is very sick with Schizophrenia, and her delusions often fixate on me and my death, but she does that the most when she's worried about herself. My entire life, she taught me that I was dying and sick. I didn't understand. I grew up and had a son, and at first, I parented him from a very overanxious place. I didn't realize how scary it would be. I didn't know any other way. Sadly, my son did get really sick and developed severe autism. I hate that it happened, but it made me see the reality of things. I realized that parenting him from an anxious place was only going to make him afraid, and I realized how selfish I was being. I didn't mean to do it, and I learned to do differently.
I'm not telling you not to feel angry or sad, because I do believe in expressing emotions honestly and healthily, but perhaps it could take some of the edge off to understand that your mother is just sick right now and doesn't know any better. That doesn't mean that you don't need to break free, but it does mean that you don't have let yourself fester with anger and stay stuck while waiting around for her to change. You are now an adult, and so you must take control.
I believe that your mother's behavior is toxic, but as this program and other good psychological programs teach, you only have control over you. In fact, you do have responsibility here. This looks like a very codependent relationship. Your mother is acting in a toxic manner, but you are living with her and giving her the opportunity to act that way. You want to know if you can get better while living with her, and my advice is that it's going to be very hard. Since you are now an adult, it's time to be an adult, and if you remain with your mother, she will continue to treat you like a child and you'll continue to act like a child. Understand that although you feel trapped by your anxiety, you are making a choice to trade your freedom for financial security. Even if you can't break away right now, you can start working on a plan. Perhaps job training, college courses, a room mate, etc. You need a plan and a time line to become independent at the very least. Your focus should be on doing everything you can to get well and to get independent from her. Once you achieve that, you can then assess what type of relationship you can have with her.
I promise that I do understand. I can not have a relationship with my mother right now. I have to focus on taking care of myself in a healthy manner. In short, I have to be my own mother, and then I have to take care of my son who has a real disorder. I'm not as angry at her as I used to be because I know that she is just sick and didn't get the right help. I look back and see that there were offers of help for her, but she ran away from those offers, so that was her responsibility and choice. When I know that I am the one in control of me and my beliefs, etc., then I don't have to be stuck in anger and waiting around for her to give me what she is unable to give. I have to give myself what I didn't get.
So, you are stuck right now, and you need to start getting yourself unstuck. Although I do think that there is more work to be done in therapy regarding parents then this program endorses, I do agree that you can't just sit around blaming your parents for your life once you are an adult. Yes, you weren't mothered properly and your mother taught you anxiety. That's sad, and you need to grieve that, but letting yourself get stuck in that grief without taking any actions to heal and grow into a healthy adult because your mother is to blame won't help you at all. You acknowledge the truth and you learn from it and move on to take control of your life.
Take care,
luvpiggy
Sorry that you are having a hard time. It's hard when our parents teach us how to be anxious, and it's definitely hard when we don't have the coping skills and boundaries to keep their toxic behaviors from hurting us. The good news is that you can definitely learn the coping skills and learn good boundaries to help yourself get well. I suggest you get this program, a good therapist, and I highly recommend the book, "Boundaries" by Dr.'s Henry Cloud and Dr. Townsend. They also have a book on mothers that you could look up. I think one example in the book is "The China Doll Mother", and that sounds like what you are dealing with here.
First of all, it's important for you to realize that you are now an adult. As a child, you were completely dependent on your mother, but now that you are an adult, you really do have the freedom and the power to break free. Your anger is understandable, but at the same time, you said that your mother is in complete denial of her actions. That means that although her behavior is toxic, she does not know any other way to parent you, and she is not in a place where she can realize the damage she has done or is doing. Most parents do not want to hurt their children, and it is often very hard for them to acknowledge it when it does happen. Ideally, a good parent would admit it when they make mistakes and make amends when appropriate, but that really is rare. I don't want to sound callous, but she's not trying to hurt you on purpose, but trying to get her own selfish needs met. Every time she worries about you, she feels like she's being a great mother, and it's just going to be very difficult to convince her otherwise. From my own personal story, my mother is very sick with Schizophrenia, and her delusions often fixate on me and my death, but she does that the most when she's worried about herself. My entire life, she taught me that I was dying and sick. I didn't understand. I grew up and had a son, and at first, I parented him from a very overanxious place. I didn't realize how scary it would be. I didn't know any other way. Sadly, my son did get really sick and developed severe autism. I hate that it happened, but it made me see the reality of things. I realized that parenting him from an anxious place was only going to make him afraid, and I realized how selfish I was being. I didn't mean to do it, and I learned to do differently.
I'm not telling you not to feel angry or sad, because I do believe in expressing emotions honestly and healthily, but perhaps it could take some of the edge off to understand that your mother is just sick right now and doesn't know any better. That doesn't mean that you don't need to break free, but it does mean that you don't have let yourself fester with anger and stay stuck while waiting around for her to change. You are now an adult, and so you must take control.
I believe that your mother's behavior is toxic, but as this program and other good psychological programs teach, you only have control over you. In fact, you do have responsibility here. This looks like a very codependent relationship. Your mother is acting in a toxic manner, but you are living with her and giving her the opportunity to act that way. You want to know if you can get better while living with her, and my advice is that it's going to be very hard. Since you are now an adult, it's time to be an adult, and if you remain with your mother, she will continue to treat you like a child and you'll continue to act like a child. Understand that although you feel trapped by your anxiety, you are making a choice to trade your freedom for financial security. Even if you can't break away right now, you can start working on a plan. Perhaps job training, college courses, a room mate, etc. You need a plan and a time line to become independent at the very least. Your focus should be on doing everything you can to get well and to get independent from her. Once you achieve that, you can then assess what type of relationship you can have with her.
I promise that I do understand. I can not have a relationship with my mother right now. I have to focus on taking care of myself in a healthy manner. In short, I have to be my own mother, and then I have to take care of my son who has a real disorder. I'm not as angry at her as I used to be because I know that she is just sick and didn't get the right help. I look back and see that there were offers of help for her, but she ran away from those offers, so that was her responsibility and choice. When I know that I am the one in control of me and my beliefs, etc., then I don't have to be stuck in anger and waiting around for her to give me what she is unable to give. I have to give myself what I didn't get.
So, you are stuck right now, and you need to start getting yourself unstuck. Although I do think that there is more work to be done in therapy regarding parents then this program endorses, I do agree that you can't just sit around blaming your parents for your life once you are an adult. Yes, you weren't mothered properly and your mother taught you anxiety. That's sad, and you need to grieve that, but letting yourself get stuck in that grief without taking any actions to heal and grow into a healthy adult because your mother is to blame won't help you at all. You acknowledge the truth and you learn from it and move on to take control of your life.
Take care,
luvpiggy
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Guest
Thanks for the in depth reply, I greatly appreciate it.
I absolutely agree that I do need to break free, my biggest issue is that my Panic Disorder is so bad that I can barely make it outside sometimes without getting extremely dizzy, vomiting or having some other extreme panic symptom. I am looking left and right for some kind of work I can do online right now, though it's tough because so many are scams, I'm hopeful though... I do have a college degree, however that is of little use when you can't even make it into (much less THROUGH) a job interview without a panic attack. I really feel that as soon as I am away from her it will really aid my recovery... not cure me, that's going to take hard work on my part, but it will be a big step forward.
I talked to her today, gave it one last shot, I was very sincere and told her what I felt had caused this for me and that several therapists had all agreed that this is indeed the major stressor/trigger in my condition. She was surprisingly nice but once again denied everything and flat out told me "I don't care what a therapist says about me, they are wrong, I know who I am and I don't give a crap what anyone's opinion of me is".... I told her that's ok and that I respected her opinion, as much in denial as she is I do have to say she is in a surprisingly good mood, she even hinted at possibly letting me keep the house (she is quite wealthy) and helping me with any money I need, though she did rub it in my face several times that she has done no wrong and this problem is mine.
All in all I got nowhere with her, but you are right, I can't stay angry at someone who doesn't even care that I am angry at them as all it does is hurt me.
I absolutely agree that I do need to break free, my biggest issue is that my Panic Disorder is so bad that I can barely make it outside sometimes without getting extremely dizzy, vomiting or having some other extreme panic symptom. I am looking left and right for some kind of work I can do online right now, though it's tough because so many are scams, I'm hopeful though... I do have a college degree, however that is of little use when you can't even make it into (much less THROUGH) a job interview without a panic attack. I really feel that as soon as I am away from her it will really aid my recovery... not cure me, that's going to take hard work on my part, but it will be a big step forward.
I talked to her today, gave it one last shot, I was very sincere and told her what I felt had caused this for me and that several therapists had all agreed that this is indeed the major stressor/trigger in my condition. She was surprisingly nice but once again denied everything and flat out told me "I don't care what a therapist says about me, they are wrong, I know who I am and I don't give a crap what anyone's opinion of me is".... I told her that's ok and that I respected her opinion, as much in denial as she is I do have to say she is in a surprisingly good mood, she even hinted at possibly letting me keep the house (she is quite wealthy) and helping me with any money I need, though she did rub it in my face several times that she has done no wrong and this problem is mine.
All in all I got nowhere with her, but you are right, I can't stay angry at someone who doesn't even care that I am angry at them as all it does is hurt me.
Last edited by RPanic04 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
Unfortunately, it's not going to matter even if you convince her, because that will only last a day. Remember, the only person you can change is you.
It sounds to me like you should see a doctor and get help with medication to overcome the disabling anxiety and become independent. I don't generally like medications and don't advocate their use for everyone, but if you are to where you can not function, they have their place. It's like a physical pain - if you had terrible headaches day in and out, you would take something for the pain while you worked long-term to find out what is causing them, right?
I have for several years been helping some young adults who are suffering the long-term effects of having a parent with a mental disorder and behavior similar to what you described from your mother. From what you say, it sounds like she really has some serious emotional problems, but it's going to be up to her to figure those out and get help. I would urge you to get out of there and away from this, so you can help yourself and take control of your life. Work with your therapist to find strength to overcome the guilt she is going to evoke in you... that may be your hardest challenge.
It sounds to me like you should see a doctor and get help with medication to overcome the disabling anxiety and become independent. I don't generally like medications and don't advocate their use for everyone, but if you are to where you can not function, they have their place. It's like a physical pain - if you had terrible headaches day in and out, you would take something for the pain while you worked long-term to find out what is causing them, right?
I have for several years been helping some young adults who are suffering the long-term effects of having a parent with a mental disorder and behavior similar to what you described from your mother. From what you say, it sounds like she really has some serious emotional problems, but it's going to be up to her to figure those out and get help. I would urge you to get out of there and away from this, so you can help yourself and take control of your life. Work with your therapist to find strength to overcome the guilt she is going to evoke in you... that may be your hardest challenge.
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Guest
It is probably futile to try to get her to believe she had a hand in the way you are today. I have 3 children and their personalities are completely different from one another, I admit to not being the perfect mother, however some of my kids are "less affected" than others.
You have to find a way to become less affected, and you have to stop blaming your mother, now that you are 24 you are responsible for your own behavior regardless of the past and it is hard trust me, I'm over 40 and still have to shake off the stupid ways I've inherited from my mother. They still hang on to me because it's a force of habit.
Get through the program and get yourself on your feet and move out of there as quickly and effectively as time permits. Listen to CD #2 on how to get over the panic episodes and start getting out there and exposing yourself to the uncomfortableness of it all. There is also a CD which goes over benefits of staying trapped in your anxiety, you would get a lot out of that, because I'll bet there are times you find comfort and attention from it all as much as you hate it.
What it boils down to, is that you are conditioned to rely on her, but now it is up to you to break yourself from it and it will NOT be easy, so prepare for it to be hard, and get through it!
Hope that helps.
You have to find a way to become less affected, and you have to stop blaming your mother, now that you are 24 you are responsible for your own behavior regardless of the past and it is hard trust me, I'm over 40 and still have to shake off the stupid ways I've inherited from my mother. They still hang on to me because it's a force of habit.
Get through the program and get yourself on your feet and move out of there as quickly and effectively as time permits. Listen to CD #2 on how to get over the panic episodes and start getting out there and exposing yourself to the uncomfortableness of it all. There is also a CD which goes over benefits of staying trapped in your anxiety, you would get a lot out of that, because I'll bet there are times you find comfort and attention from it all as much as you hate it.
What it boils down to, is that you are conditioned to rely on her, but now it is up to you to break yourself from it and it will NOT be easy, so prepare for it to be hard, and get through it!
Hope that helps.
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Guest
hello rpanic,
i can TOO well feel the position you are in..your mum and mine can virtually be friends
its very simple the way you can handle it
for the job interview i myself to be a total nervous chaos, but for 2 years or so, i kept going to job interviews, just for the sake of it..and after year and a half.. job for me are like a chit-chat, check online how you could ace the interviews, its a skill everyone needs to learn to get a job
my mum is like that...she isn't over protective or so..but she doesn't approve of ANYTHING that i do,her expectations is that i stay home and study all day, and be an A student at university..in the past i used to listen to her, but after a year i felt like i'm living the life for my mom, if you manage to grasp the fact that you are a independent program it will give you a lot of help.
for me right now life is like that:
-i'm studying politics against my mom's approval
- i work part-time beside university against her approval
-i'm a regular volunteer against her aproval
it might sound mean...but try not to care too much about what your mum says, do this idea...imagine this, one of thouse times when your mum is shouting imagine, all the words going through one ear and going out of the other, be calm, don't respond, it will just add fuel to the fire, as in if you shout back you will get the fight louder and louder
all you nee is to believe in yourself, and KNOW what you are worth
it might sound mean, but you need to start living YOUR life, not the life your mum wants for you, finding an internet job won't help you, your problem is that you are staying too much at home, the solution for it is to find a job OUTSIDE of home
you don't need to take on a huge stressful job, take something small, take baby steps
if you need any further help feel free to write me in private, i used to work in Human Resources, as in i used to interview people for a living, can tell you how you can ace your interview
i can TOO well feel the position you are in..your mum and mine can virtually be friends
its very simple the way you can handle it
for the job interview i myself to be a total nervous chaos, but for 2 years or so, i kept going to job interviews, just for the sake of it..and after year and a half.. job for me are like a chit-chat, check online how you could ace the interviews, its a skill everyone needs to learn to get a job
my mum is like that...she isn't over protective or so..but she doesn't approve of ANYTHING that i do,her expectations is that i stay home and study all day, and be an A student at university..in the past i used to listen to her, but after a year i felt like i'm living the life for my mom, if you manage to grasp the fact that you are a independent program it will give you a lot of help.
for me right now life is like that:
-i'm studying politics against my mom's approval
- i work part-time beside university against her approval
-i'm a regular volunteer against her aproval
it might sound mean...but try not to care too much about what your mum says, do this idea...imagine this, one of thouse times when your mum is shouting imagine, all the words going through one ear and going out of the other, be calm, don't respond, it will just add fuel to the fire, as in if you shout back you will get the fight louder and louder
all you nee is to believe in yourself, and KNOW what you are worth
it might sound mean, but you need to start living YOUR life, not the life your mum wants for you, finding an internet job won't help you, your problem is that you are staying too much at home, the solution for it is to find a job OUTSIDE of home
you don't need to take on a huge stressful job, take something small, take baby steps
if you need any further help feel free to write me in private, i used to work in Human Resources, as in i used to interview people for a living, can tell you how you can ace your interview
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Guest
RPanic!
You have received some very good advice here from several people.
I wonder if you are more angry with yourself than with your mom.
It can't feel too good to be so dependant on her at your age. I understand your panic. But I doubt that is going to get better until you take the bull by the horns and start taking care of yourself.
It is a fact that if you tell someone what they are doing wrong, if you accuse someone, they are going to be on the defencive. You cannot get any good results in approaching anyone this way. So no need to keep telling your mom what she is doing wrong.
My son joined the Navy at 17 1/2. Broke my heart. I was kind of protective, I suppose. He was my baby.
Well, he survived and I did too. He is 57 now.
My advice would be along the same lines as all the others above.
You have to learn to be your own best friend and
learn to love and respect yourself. Just work the program and you'll do that.
Best of luck.
MJ
You have received some very good advice here from several people.
I wonder if you are more angry with yourself than with your mom.
It can't feel too good to be so dependant on her at your age. I understand your panic. But I doubt that is going to get better until you take the bull by the horns and start taking care of yourself.
It is a fact that if you tell someone what they are doing wrong, if you accuse someone, they are going to be on the defencive. You cannot get any good results in approaching anyone this way. So no need to keep telling your mom what she is doing wrong.
My son joined the Navy at 17 1/2. Broke my heart. I was kind of protective, I suppose. He was my baby.
Well, he survived and I did too. He is 57 now.
My advice would be along the same lines as all the others above.
You have to learn to be your own best friend and
learn to love and respect yourself. Just work the program and you'll do that.
Best of luck.
MJ
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Guest
Thanks for the advice. A lot of true words spoken and I do agree.
While I get out I am trying my best to keep a cool head, when I was younger I used to get so angry and just snap but I figure that won't help anyone, it's tough but I'm really just trying to be as nice as possible and grin and bear it. Today she basically threatened me that i "better recover soon because this is too much crap for her to deal with and she has no reason to be stressed".... I figured that was pretty cold of her considering the amounts of stress she has caused me all my life and the fact that i've been in therapy, on meds and seriously trying to control this for years, but I just tried to smile and say "ok", she threw a fit b/c I didn't seem to be responding to her but she's gotten distracted with other things now a few hours later, thankfully.
While I get out I am trying my best to keep a cool head, when I was younger I used to get so angry and just snap but I figure that won't help anyone, it's tough but I'm really just trying to be as nice as possible and grin and bear it. Today she basically threatened me that i "better recover soon because this is too much crap for her to deal with and she has no reason to be stressed".... I figured that was pretty cold of her considering the amounts of stress she has caused me all my life and the fact that i've been in therapy, on meds and seriously trying to control this for years, but I just tried to smile and say "ok", she threw a fit b/c I didn't seem to be responding to her but she's gotten distracted with other things now a few hours later, thankfully.
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Guest
RPanic04,
She's probably going to continue to do those things. As best you can, expect the static and just ignore it. Now is a good time to practice under-reacting to her (like you have been) but also not letting her words get deep inside you and upset you. The things she tells you say more about her than you. She's reflecting her own toxicity. So try to figure a way to visualize her words bouncing off you--like you are in a protective bubble. That may get you through enough of the program to form your life-plan and get a job, roommate, apt, etc. Make those things high priority so you can get away and have the room and space to grow in a healthy manner.
Hang in there! Also I agree with luvpiggy about those 2 books. I've read both in my own quest to separate from my toxic mother. Excellent principles that go hand in hand with this program. BTW I've completely separated myself (successfully) from my mother and her overly controlling relationship. I can't tell you how much better it is on the other side. I'm 43 and finally feel like an adult. So really keep at it, the payoff is tremendous.
Congratulations on starting the rest of your life!
She's probably going to continue to do those things. As best you can, expect the static and just ignore it. Now is a good time to practice under-reacting to her (like you have been) but also not letting her words get deep inside you and upset you. The things she tells you say more about her than you. She's reflecting her own toxicity. So try to figure a way to visualize her words bouncing off you--like you are in a protective bubble. That may get you through enough of the program to form your life-plan and get a job, roommate, apt, etc. Make those things high priority so you can get away and have the room and space to grow in a healthy manner.
Hang in there! Also I agree with luvpiggy about those 2 books. I've read both in my own quest to separate from my toxic mother. Excellent principles that go hand in hand with this program. BTW I've completely separated myself (successfully) from my mother and her overly controlling relationship. I can't tell you how much better it is on the other side. I'm 43 and finally feel like an adult. So really keep at it, the payoff is tremendous.
Congratulations on starting the rest of your life!