Ä well-meaning friend (I guess) told me today something like this: "Ï don't know why you are so anxious/ worried. Just stop worrying. What do you have to worry about? You could have real problems, like for example that quadriplegic 21 year old who lost his limbs in Afganistan, and look at him, he's happy. Next time you think you have a bad life think of him or someone who has cancer."
Well that did not help at all. I felt insulted and misunderstood. Have you run into this before? How do you keep from beating yourself up when you hear stuff like this?
After I came home it just spiraled from there... I started endlessly thinking about how selfish and self-centered I really am... how I don't have real problems, that I'm just wrong and don't deserve the air I breathe since it's better used by more worthy people with "real problems". It's a bad feeling.
people "helping" by using comparisons/ guilt to try to get you to "snap out of it"
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cuttingirl
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Last edited by cuttingirl on Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I have lived a horrible life, none of which has actually happened"-Winston Churchill
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Guest
cuttingirl
This has got to be one of the most annoying things that we have to put up with when we have this condition. I have heard it so many times, people saying why are you so depressed just look at the people in etheopia, they don't even got enough to eat, your life isn't so bad. These people may mean well and they may be really frustrated but no it doesn't help in the least bit. It can also make us feel really guilty and very angry. Do people have to have extreme cases like the quadriplegic 21 year old who lost his limbs in afganistan or the etheopians in order to have the right to be anxious and depressed...I think not! And if confronted with a situation like yours I would ask the exact same thing.
I understand and can relate very well to that spirling effect. We start to think we aren't good enough and ya that we shouldn't be that way because of what the other person said. Our logic goes out the window and our emotions take over and then sometimes we do extreme things in response like slicing our arms. A skill that I have learned would be of great benefit to you in situations like this or really any situation where someone is trying to insult you or manipulate you is to, instead of taking it face value...stop the thought progress and ask questions. Get curious about what the other person has to say and what they mean and ask them questions to get them to realize how irrational they are being. Questions aren't always used for the person asking them to get information from the person they are asking them to. They can also be use to get the other person to realize things themselves.
So what kind of people are allowed to suffer from anxiety and depression?
What kind of training have you gone through regarding the topic?
Do you understand how obsessive worrying works?
Are you suggesting that I'm not allowed to have this condition?
I am trying to overcome the worrying, do you have any skills or techniques you have that will help me accomplish this goal?
Questions Questions Questions
And this condition is nothing to be ashamed about, you did not give it to yourself, you are not intentionally hurting other people and frankly if you are about to beat yourself up for this condition you better be prepared to beat up everybody else who has this condition because in reality you and nobody else on this earth is any better than anybody else. We all have the same capability to grow, learn and improve. No accomplishment, personality trait or level of popularity makes a human being worth more than another human being. Any person who anxiety and depression is going to have symptoms of anxiety and depression, It is rather stupid for someone to expect that person to not have them and that becomes their unrealistic expectation and not the one suffering.
Mike
This has got to be one of the most annoying things that we have to put up with when we have this condition. I have heard it so many times, people saying why are you so depressed just look at the people in etheopia, they don't even got enough to eat, your life isn't so bad. These people may mean well and they may be really frustrated but no it doesn't help in the least bit. It can also make us feel really guilty and very angry. Do people have to have extreme cases like the quadriplegic 21 year old who lost his limbs in afganistan or the etheopians in order to have the right to be anxious and depressed...I think not! And if confronted with a situation like yours I would ask the exact same thing.
I understand and can relate very well to that spirling effect. We start to think we aren't good enough and ya that we shouldn't be that way because of what the other person said. Our logic goes out the window and our emotions take over and then sometimes we do extreme things in response like slicing our arms. A skill that I have learned would be of great benefit to you in situations like this or really any situation where someone is trying to insult you or manipulate you is to, instead of taking it face value...stop the thought progress and ask questions. Get curious about what the other person has to say and what they mean and ask them questions to get them to realize how irrational they are being. Questions aren't always used for the person asking them to get information from the person they are asking them to. They can also be use to get the other person to realize things themselves.
So what kind of people are allowed to suffer from anxiety and depression?
What kind of training have you gone through regarding the topic?
Do you understand how obsessive worrying works?
Are you suggesting that I'm not allowed to have this condition?
I am trying to overcome the worrying, do you have any skills or techniques you have that will help me accomplish this goal?
Questions Questions Questions
And this condition is nothing to be ashamed about, you did not give it to yourself, you are not intentionally hurting other people and frankly if you are about to beat yourself up for this condition you better be prepared to beat up everybody else who has this condition because in reality you and nobody else on this earth is any better than anybody else. We all have the same capability to grow, learn and improve. No accomplishment, personality trait or level of popularity makes a human being worth more than another human being. Any person who anxiety and depression is going to have symptoms of anxiety and depression, It is rather stupid for someone to expect that person to not have them and that becomes their unrealistic expectation and not the one suffering.
Mike
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Guest
Also someone who obviously knows very little about our condition is bound to be extremely incorrect. How effective do you think this friend would be if they gave a lecture on the topic to 1000s of people suffering from the same condition? That would be like a female who had just got her period asking her father what kind of feminine hygiene products that she needs to be using.
I wonder what else this friends knows about this condition....by the way if this friend responds the way he/she did with worrying i would advise against telling them about obsessive scary thoughts.
Mike
I wonder what else this friends knows about this condition....by the way if this friend responds the way he/she did with worrying i would advise against telling them about obsessive scary thoughts.
Mike
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oh and another question to ask...how effective has your technique to compare other people and tell them to just stop what they are doing been? Have you had a high success rate with that one? (that might start a fight so maybe better to not say that but this is what i would say to the person if i was as irritated as i am now...and i'm just picturing myself in your position. Then again I get more bothered when other people go through it as opposed to myself)
Mike
Mike
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Guest
Your words are extremely validating and grounding and activating. Thank you! You put clear words on her message and my reaction to it that I was not able to articulate or see through the tangle of emotions and years of built on layers... I'm so used to feeling this way it went to default- immediate acceptance as truth a negative assumption about my nature and character. And, going larger, what you said about being ready to beat everyone up with this condition if I'm going to beat myself up... so true! This is an opportunity to not accept as truth negative messages whether they come from within or without. I have some real work to do on self-esteem and rational/ irrational dialoguing. It's a good thing that the positive side of this condition is creativity. I'm going to re-engage the discussion with her using your questions, but in an email since I'm not ready to do it face to face. Thanks for sticking up for me (and all of us)!
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CuttinGirl -
First, we suffer from a very real conditions with very real and restrictive symptoms. As Mike was saying, the fact that we have this condition was not by choice. So for someone to make a comparison to another disease or situation is not fair, especially when they likely don't really even understand what we go through.
I have a story I'd like to share with you that might help give some perspective. I've shared it a few times in the past but I think that it is enlightening enough that it bears repeating.
I used to be married and was with my wife at the time for nearly ten years. She had seen me go through panic attacks thousands of times witnessing them and their affect on me first hand. She knew as intimately as someone could from the outside looking in what a panic attack was.
Probably about seven or eight years into our relationship she had a single, spontaneous panic attack. It took me a few minutes to recognize what was happening to her; in fact we nearly went to the ER before I figured it out. It lasted about fifteen minutes and I walked her through it and was able to calm her down. After it was over the very first thing she said to me was "I had no idea that was what it was like."
Can you imagine? This was someone who couldn't have had any more exposure to someone with panic attacks and agoraphobia. But until she experienced it, she never understood the full impact of it. The point of this story is that there are many good, well meaning people that try to help us. But almost all of them have never experience panic like we have so they really have no frame of reference to offer advice. They can only see our condition through the eyes of their own experiences, which are usually not sufficient for them to really get it.
Try to remember this story next time something like this happens to you again. There's no need to beat yourself up when your trying your best just to survive. Those that support us usually only want the best for us but they just don't have the experience to really understand what they are asking of us. If they did, I'm sure they would have an entirely different approach and perspective.
Take care of yourself,
Jamie
First, we suffer from a very real conditions with very real and restrictive symptoms. As Mike was saying, the fact that we have this condition was not by choice. So for someone to make a comparison to another disease or situation is not fair, especially when they likely don't really even understand what we go through.
I have a story I'd like to share with you that might help give some perspective. I've shared it a few times in the past but I think that it is enlightening enough that it bears repeating.
I used to be married and was with my wife at the time for nearly ten years. She had seen me go through panic attacks thousands of times witnessing them and their affect on me first hand. She knew as intimately as someone could from the outside looking in what a panic attack was.
Probably about seven or eight years into our relationship she had a single, spontaneous panic attack. It took me a few minutes to recognize what was happening to her; in fact we nearly went to the ER before I figured it out. It lasted about fifteen minutes and I walked her through it and was able to calm her down. After it was over the very first thing she said to me was "I had no idea that was what it was like."
Can you imagine? This was someone who couldn't have had any more exposure to someone with panic attacks and agoraphobia. But until she experienced it, she never understood the full impact of it. The point of this story is that there are many good, well meaning people that try to help us. But almost all of them have never experience panic like we have so they really have no frame of reference to offer advice. They can only see our condition through the eyes of their own experiences, which are usually not sufficient for them to really get it.
Try to remember this story next time something like this happens to you again. There's no need to beat yourself up when your trying your best just to survive. Those that support us usually only want the best for us but they just don't have the experience to really understand what they are asking of us. If they did, I'm sure they would have an entirely different approach and perspective.
Take care of yourself,
Jamie
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Thank you Searunner for sharing that story. Wow. Sometimes I wish people could spend just 5 minutes inside my head or your head or anyone's head with this condition to see what it is we deal with... they'd be exhausted and would have no idea what to do. Thank you also for further validating that it really is a real condition with restrictive symptoms. I know this is true but when things like this come up, I doubt myself even more and feel awful. Thanks Ninja and Searunner.
I decided to engage my friend again, by email. Well that didn't go so well despite the fact that I was totally non-confrontational and was just basically asking for friendship and support if not understanding.
The response I got was something like this: "well, not everyone has the luxury of self-examination and personal supposed crises. You don't even have real responsibilities to deal with like children or a spouse".
A luxury! Ha! That one made me laugh out loud. It also made me really mad.
I've decided to walk away from that friendship because this is not a person I can trust. In fact, they clearly resent me and don't have my best interests in mind. I am glad I have never shared any of my scary obsessive thoughts with them.
I decided to engage my friend again, by email. Well that didn't go so well despite the fact that I was totally non-confrontational and was just basically asking for friendship and support if not understanding.
The response I got was something like this: "well, not everyone has the luxury of self-examination and personal supposed crises. You don't even have real responsibilities to deal with like children or a spouse".
A luxury! Ha! That one made me laugh out loud. It also made me really mad.
I've decided to walk away from that friendship because this is not a person I can trust. In fact, they clearly resent me and don't have my best interests in mind. I am glad I have never shared any of my scary obsessive thoughts with them.
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Well in our negative state we are likely to attract some other really negative people. It is unfortunate but reality.
Yes because personal supposed crises are really fun...Everybody really does have the ability for self-examination most people just don't. I don't know what this person deems as real responsibilities. Obviously the definition is diffrent for me than that other person. Taking care of yourself is a big responsibility. This is one of those people who is not very supportive or understanding and by the sounds of it not even willing to look at their own problems and face them. I would not be suprised if there was even some jealousy there. There are going to be people who are mean and cruel and reject us because we are doing something to better ourselves. I actually just got rejected with no explaination or anything recently.
No they really don't seem to have your best interests in mind. Good idea to get rid of them.
Mike
Yes because personal supposed crises are really fun...Everybody really does have the ability for self-examination most people just don't. I don't know what this person deems as real responsibilities. Obviously the definition is diffrent for me than that other person. Taking care of yourself is a big responsibility. This is one of those people who is not very supportive or understanding and by the sounds of it not even willing to look at their own problems and face them. I would not be suprised if there was even some jealousy there. There are going to be people who are mean and cruel and reject us because we are doing something to better ourselves. I actually just got rejected with no explaination or anything recently.
No they really don't seem to have your best interests in mind. Good idea to get rid of them.
Mike
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As Mike said, we entertain both healthy and unhealthy relationships with other people in our lives. I recently attended a group therapy program and it included a list of traits of both healthy and unhealthy relationships. I thought this might help validate your decision to end the relationship with your former friend. Here's the list:
"Healthy People"
1. Invite a relationship rather than defend against it; willing to be both close and apart
2. Mutual vulnerability
3. Trust; consistency over time
4. Honesty
5. Constructive feedback
6. Repair; willing to change
"Unhealthy People"
1. Think they have it "all together"; feel superior
2. Defensive instead of open to feedback; perceive communication as an attack
3. Don't take responsibility for their lives; permissive and don't want to know how it impacts you
4. Self righteous instead of humble; can't identify with others' struggles
5. Only apologize but never change their behavior; no room for growth
6. Avoid facing relationship problems; want others to change
7. Resist character growth
8. Externalize their issues; blaming
9. Have not developed tolerance for stress; "fly off the handle" rather than willing to engage in communication
10. Demand trust instead of earn it while being mistrustful of others
11. Dishonest and untrustworthy
12. Don't forgive; hold grudges and won't accept an apology
13. Treat others with a lack of empathy; no compassion
Remember, we bring people into our lives to enhance it and make us better people not to create destruction and sap our energy. A good relationship always creates much more positive energy than negative. Ask yourself: are the people in you life helping your grow or are they inhibiting you? It's so important to reach out to people around us that can provide a positive influence.
Sometimes we pick unhealthy relationships because the feel good in the short run. But over time, they drain us. Be very careful of continuing an unhealthy relationship even though you might be getting some short term gains. It's just not worth the damage it causes later.
Jamie
"Healthy People"
1. Invite a relationship rather than defend against it; willing to be both close and apart
2. Mutual vulnerability
3. Trust; consistency over time
4. Honesty
5. Constructive feedback
6. Repair; willing to change
"Unhealthy People"
1. Think they have it "all together"; feel superior
2. Defensive instead of open to feedback; perceive communication as an attack
3. Don't take responsibility for their lives; permissive and don't want to know how it impacts you
4. Self righteous instead of humble; can't identify with others' struggles
5. Only apologize but never change their behavior; no room for growth
6. Avoid facing relationship problems; want others to change
7. Resist character growth
8. Externalize their issues; blaming
9. Have not developed tolerance for stress; "fly off the handle" rather than willing to engage in communication
10. Demand trust instead of earn it while being mistrustful of others
11. Dishonest and untrustworthy
12. Don't forgive; hold grudges and won't accept an apology
13. Treat others with a lack of empathy; no compassion
Remember, we bring people into our lives to enhance it and make us better people not to create destruction and sap our energy. A good relationship always creates much more positive energy than negative. Ask yourself: are the people in you life helping your grow or are they inhibiting you? It's so important to reach out to people around us that can provide a positive influence.
Sometimes we pick unhealthy relationships because the feel good in the short run. But over time, they drain us. Be very careful of continuing an unhealthy relationship even though you might be getting some short term gains. It's just not worth the damage it causes later.
Jamie