Us and Them

Rhasslariel · Post by **Rhasslariel** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:17 am

In session 3, Lucinda speaks of the connection between self-esteem and negative talk with depression. The thing is, all my life I've known people who think negative all the time, but still have high self-esteem and don't suffer from anxiety and/or depression. They may get depressed on occasion, like anyone, but its not a constant. My best friend, who suffers clinical depression, and can at times be one of the most negative people I know, has very high self-esteem. She loves herself. Its the world around her that brings her down. Another friend is always using negative talk against herself. Saying she's stupid for doing something. Or 'what an idiot I am' if she makes a mistake. But she doesn't suffer from depression or anxiety or low self-esteem either. All of these people are doing and thinking in the exact way we're being told we shouldn't, yet they don't have a problem. In fact, some of the really negative people I've known had very high opinions of themselves. Its one of the things that added to their negativity. They thought they were better than everyone else. Is it brain chemistry? When I was younger, my self-esteem was very, very low. In school (from kindergarten on) I got teased about everything all the time. But I didn't suffer from depression or anxiety. Now, as an adult my self-esteem is much higher but I suffer depression and anxiety. I just don't get it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:57 pm

Hi,
I would like to say that yes, everyone thinks negatively. However, people without problems with anxiety have negative statements that somehow does not "bring them down" they way our negative statements do.
My dad always is very hard on himself, especially in ANY kind of competition. If he does something he thinks was a mistake he tells himself (outloud) that he's playing like an idiot!
It seems to motivate him to do better.
If you have ever followed tennis, John McEnroe used to get livid all the time at the referees and linesmen. He would totally act out and somehow he would play better. We are all different and the reality is that our negative thinking is really hindering us. It's likely that we are hard on ourselves in a way that is (often) hindering us rather than motivating us.
I do not know your friend with the depression but some people think I have high self esteem because of my "outgoing" personality. For the past while though, my self esteem is really suffering.
I realize that my "shoulds" and my expectations of myself and people in my life are adding to my troubles.
I'm so sick of feeling like a victim to many things in my life and I know that there are lots of things I can change my attitude about. I know it's not easy but we can do it.

You asked is it chemical? I think so in many ways. I also think that some of the thoughts and shoulds add to the situation.

Take care,
Martin

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:57 pm

I don't believe there is an exact science dealing with self-esteem, depression, anxiety, stress disorders etc... I believe it is on an individual basis, but most people with low self-esteem generally have other disorders to go along with it. I believe you can love yourself and struggle with anxiety, depression and negative self talk because I exist. There was a time when I didn't love myself, but that has changed. At this point I'm beginning to work on negative talk, and all the junk I grew up with. Most of the time it is a learned behavior that has to be unlearned. So it is possible to love yourself and have good self-esteem but still talk negative to yourself. Anyway, here is an exert that might interest you: Researchers at Case Western Reserve University and the University of Virginia conducted a comparison of evidence from a variety of studies concerning individuals involved with aggressive behavior of all kinds: assault, homicide, rape, domestic violence, juvenile delinquency, political terror, prejudice, oppression, and genocide. In some studies, self-esteem was specifically measured; in others it was inferred. The authors concluded that "aggressive, violent, and hostile people consistently express favorable views of themselves." If anyone is interested in reading more here is the websight/ threeminutetherapy.com/self-esteem

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed May 21, 2008 4:34 pm

It's my thinking that most people can deal with negativity and negative thoughts and thinking. However, us people that suffer from anxiety and panic and depression can't deal with these type of thoughts. They pull us down and hurt our already low self-esteem. Maybe this is chemically induced in our brains, maybe it is genetics, I don't know. But, I do know that negative thinking really affects "us" to a much greater degree than "them" (those people not afflicted with these problems). Rob.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:32 pm

I don't think anyone truly understands exactly how it all works. Some of it may be genetic, some of us may be more biologically vulnerable to these illnesses than others. But, clinical studies provide solid evidence that cognitive behavioral therapy [CBT] is effective in treating anxiety/panic/depression. That implies that a lot of our problem is thinking related and changing how we think can help us recover significantly, if not completely.

I worked for a lady who was more negative than myself by a long shot. Nothing was ever good enough. What I noticed with her was that she never looked at herself as the problem, but always had blame for someone or something else. So, as I saw it, she was not attacking herself with the negativity. It was all "other" directed toward someone or something else. Therfore, since it was not "self" directed, she didn't suffer from emotional illness. But she had a 46 yo daughter who did suffer greatly with depression and anxiety and was on a ton of meds. She had two other children who apparently were emotionally healthy.

I know my Mother and one of her sisters had panic attacks as teen-agers with good reason. Their father was dying of tuberculosis and in those days, late 1920s and early 1930s, there wasn't much you could do for someone with this illness. So some of it is probably genetics.

Did you ever consider that thinking could impact our genes for better or worse? It's an electrochemical process which can alter brain chemistry, in my opinion. Stress can reduce the number or effectiveness of neurotransmitters and their ability to function effectively. If it can impact brain chemistry, why not our genes?

I do not buy that you can hate yourself or be overly negative toward yourself on a continual basis and escape without reaping the rewards of such behavior. I do buy you can be negative, but not direct it toward yourself, and be free of anxiety and depression. But, if you turn the guns on yourself, look out.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:20 pm

I don't believe there is an exact science dealing with self-esteem, depression, anxiety, stress disorders etc... I believe it is on an individual basis,

In session 3, Lucinda speaks of the connection between self-esteem and negative talk with depression.

There is in fact a very strong correlation between self-esteem and self hate or self rejection. A number of studies have shown that when this self rejection is eliminated that people recover from emotional illness. It's not only Lucinda saying this, it's what clinical studies have found to be valid as shown by a few of those studies below.

<A HREF="http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 051702.php" TARGET=_blank>http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 702.php</A>

<A HREF="http://www.clinicalanswers.nhs.uk/index ... estion=359" TARGET=_blank>http://www.clinicalanswers.nhs.uk/index ... ion=359</A>

<A HREF="http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/23/1663_53120.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/23/ ... 120.htm</A>

<A HREF="http://www.academyofct.org/Library/Info ... derID=1126" TARGET=_blank>http://www.academyofct.org/Library/Info ... ID=1126</A>

The three minutes to self esteem site is also a form of cognitive behavioral therapy. The subheading to the title to the book of "Three Mintue Therapy" is "Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life". So, this site supports what Lucinda is saying. That self-talk and how we think impacts our emotional health and our quality of life.

Work the program instead of challenging its validity and see if the "light bulb" doesn't turn on for you like it did for myself and many others. What do you have to lose but your anxiety/panic/depression?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 22, 2008 2:55 am

This was an interesting topic. I also have had friends who were extremely negative about everything - except themselves. They thought very highly of themselves - just didn't seem to be positive about everything else. Maybe it has to do with what kind of negative thoughts we are having and where they are directed. - At ourselves or at the outside world.?? I know my negative thoughts are connected to my self esteem but maybe some peoples' aren't. At some point we may need to accept the fact that our negative thoughts are causing us distress and do something about it, and accept the fact that other people may not need to or even want to.

Coco2 · Post by **Coco2** » Thu May 22, 2008 3:48 am

I believe that God puts us where we need to be and finding this program just reiterates that to me. I was not ready to admit until recently that my way of thinking could actually be a big part of the problem. It's kind of like I guess how they say about being an alcoholic or drug addict you will never get better until you admit you have a problem. I have to laugh (because if I don't laugh and cry from relief)when I learned from this program and forum that others had racing thoughts and what exactly the symptoms of a panic attack were because honestly I'm 47 years old and had thought up until a month ago I was surely crazy and probably had a split personality or something because my mind would not shut off. I assumed the thoughts I had were acually another voice and the physicall symptoms of the panic and anxiety were some dreaded disease that crazy people got. Now that I can already see the changes just by practicing the tools that I am learning I am more convinced than ever that this too shall pass. Wouldn't it be nice if this subject was more open in our everyday life? I realize had I been more aware of others having similar problems I would probably have sought help earlier in life. Unfortunately I have viewed this disorder as many have as a weakness and was afraid to let anyone know about it for fear they would run away or just think I'm nuts.

I have to tell you when I received my program the first thing I done was unpack it and through away the box because I wanted to believe in it so bad I wanted no excuse to be able to send it back. It was my own mind game of total committment to myself.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 22, 2008 8:42 am

Don57,
We each are our own individual person in life. while negative thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. may effect you in a certain way does not mean it effects the person beside you in the same way. I agree with Lucinda and for a majority of people it is true, but you can not place everyone in the same category. All science is not an exact science but based on a majority. I simply was trying to help Rhasslariel see that she can't base herself on others or how they react to life. There are too many people I know as well that negative self talk etc. DOES NOT EFFECT THEM the way it does me and they have very HIGH SELF ESTEEM. Thank you for the websites and information, although I prefer to allow others to be individuals not lumped into one group. If that were true we wouldn't be a minority.