schnauzermom,
you know, i am not sure if i have Hashi's or not. it was never explained to me if i have this, or just autoimmune thyroiditis. i know that i have antibodies, but from what i have read there are 3 to 4 different types of thyroid antibodies, and one in particular is indicative of Hashimoto's. i asked a different doctor later on (this past spring) if it was known what kind of hypothyroid condition i have, and he told me that there was no way of knowing now that i have started treatment, as it was something that had to be determined at the diagnosis. (in his defense, i was diagnosed in VA and then moved to NY. we are now back in VA and with my original dr office).
i don't know if mine changes on a daily basis; as it seems that 50 mcg was too much (as I was hot all of the time) as i later developed alot of thyroid toxicity symptoms (hot flushes, irritability, tension). it brought me down from a 31 TSH in 7/2005 to as low as a 1.4 this past July 2008, but since coming down in the 1-2 range is when I have been experiencing these symptoms.
once my dosage of synthroid was dropped to 25 mcg, I have felt better in alot of ways. my main reason for wanting to switch to armour though was that mentally i feel like i am in a fog most of the time; as if my mind is just not connecting like it always did. Also, my mood always had an underlying negativity associated with it. Since switching, maybe it is in my head, but my attitude is positive again.
though attitude does seem more positive for me on armour, these past couple of days since making the switch i have been mentally spent and foggy. what is weird, is that after about 6pm i seem to get a "second wind". like this morning i woke up, feel good for a few minutes, then get the feeling of having a "mental hangover" where my body feels fine but my mind feels out of it, ya know? like i have to work to stay focused. its really annoying. now, at 9:35pm on a saturday, i seem to be rocking! and i have always been a morning person...
...which brings me to the book that you mentioned. this is not the first time that 'Adrenal Fatigue' has been brought to my attention, and I actually have it on hold at the library right now! in fact, i was reading where adrenal issues can mimic hypothyroidism and can even give me that second wind that i seem to be feeling in the evening hours. its like it is the complete opposite of who i always have been in terms of energy.
i love this conversation with you, so i apologize if i am rambling too much. can you tell me more of your armour experience? i know that everyone is different, but what did you switch from? how long did you try it before deciding that it did not work as well for you?
also, you mentioned difficulty breathing. this is really interesting as sometimes i feel this way. i don't have asthma, but sometimes (especially on synthroid) it felt like i had to work to truly breathe deeply. as if effort was required. is that what you felt like?
the first day i tried armour (thanksgiving), it was like my lungs opened up, my feet stopped bothering me, my mind opened up, and i could concentrate like i used to...effortlessly. i read a small book on thanksgiving and was totally into it. my mind never wandered. i was giddy with how i felt.
i hear you on the information part of it too. i have done some reading on selenium, and how patients were given 200 mcg daily for 3 months and it reduced the antibodies by 40-63%, and a small percentage of the patients had their antibodies return to normal.
my doctor is on board for the selenium supplementation, and was open to switching to armour. my only issue with her is that she is preoccupied with my anxiety, which is still around because i do not feel "right" yet. she has a good bedside manner, and is open to trying things, but when i ramble she only hears the anxiety and stops listening to my concerns. she wants me to try an anti-anxiety med, but i feel that this is a thyroid issue and believe that i can find better balance with the right med/ dosage, etc.
i called the pharmacist today and she told me to hang on for another week if i can, just to see if i feel any better. if i don't, see the doctor (or if i can't wait that long call earlier).
i mean, if i feel like i am tonight, then i will be cool.
i want to see if i keep feeling foggy and mentally hungover, if i do then i will ask if i can go up to 1 and 1/2 tablets per day (1/4 grain- 1/2 grain).
in closing, that is too bad with Mercola. after all of the hype of being a naturopath, it would seem like the "cookie-cutter" approach would be EXACTLY the kind of care he would be against. i like his information on getting enough sun, eating organic, etc...but i guess i will be taking him with a little more salt from now on;)
Dealing with Chronic Disease
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~*schnauzermom*~
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
Paul,
My natural MD I see now manages me not only by labs, but how I feel. He allows me to adjust my meds according to how I feel FIRST. He has placed this trust in me by talking to him about my symptoms, etc.
The mental fog you are speaking of could be from the adrenal fatigue (AF). You mentioned that you get a second wind in the evening, which is totally normal with AF. I too was a morning person. I still get up early, it is just that my full brain power does not kick in until about mid morning. (9-10am). I used to have more energy in the morning, just get out of bed and hit the floor. Now, most days I take 20 minutes to even have my feet hit the floor after the alarm clock has gone off. I have to understand that I am getting older and do not have the same get up and go as I did several years back when I just popped out of bed and hot the ground running. I have accepted what is. Sure I still have some morning where I hit the ground running, but they are not everyday like they used to be.
Well I was on armour for almost a year. I felt better than when I was not on it, but still I felt something was not 100%. My thyroid specialist that my sister introduced me to suggested Synthroid 75 mcg. Well I tried that and felt better than when on the Armour 90 mcg. (my pharmacy was happy too because they are having issues getting Armour here.) Anyhow I also noticed that I also was losing weight. Nothing alarming, but better than the Armour. Doc tested and made sure we were not hypothyroid and all numbers came back in range so no adjustment to synthroid. For insurance costs I have gone on the generic Synthroid and it has been fine. I have my mental game. But I also had the AF last year that I dealt with. I followed many of the suggestions in that AF book I spoke of above and it took several months to start feeling "normal" again. I remembered phone numbers again, I could remember things and did not have to write everything on a sticky note pasted to my head. Is my mind 100%? No, but it is much better than it was. I also do not get sick for weeks on end without resolve. It has been nice not to have a cold for over a year. With AF, I seemed to get everything (cold, flu) and those would lag one for weeks and weeks. If I would get it and it seemed to get better and then it would start all over again, the cough, fever, etc. I am almost certain I got the AF from prednisone use for my sarcoidosis. But my useless lung MD never checked anything even though prednisone drug sheets warn of adrenal issues.
Yes, when I have too much thyroid meds, it IS hard to get a deep breathe in. It feels as if I am gasping to get a breathe. If I take less thyroid med for a couple days, I can breathe again. And you are correct, when the dose for thyroid meds are too high, you can experience anxiety
. I printed some of Mary Shomons (sp) stuff out and showed that to my primary MD when he was managing my thyroid meds and he did not even seem to know some of the symptoms of too much thyroid meds. Go figure, but MD's do NOT know everything. My thyroid specialist is a 65 year old pistol, an expert and respect thyroid/diabetes MD out of Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge, Illinois, but he is fuddy duddy. I have my alternative(natural) MD check my thyroid too and he allows wiggle room. The "expert" is a bit more rigid, managing only by numbers. I have not even sure I will see him again as my natural MD and I seem to have this worked out. Sometimes a highly respected pro on the subject is not the absolute best option.
I agree with you about being able to SIT and read without the mind wandering. It sounds as if some of your symptoms are settling, but there could be improvement in other areas. (again AF could be part of the issue, which regular allopathic MDs balk at and look at you as if you are strange. Some may test, but that test is only at one time during the day and does not cover AM, noon, PM and bedtime) Do not get discouraged as getting everything resolved not happen with the first try. It takes some trial and error, patience on your part as well as your MD's. Do not allow these things annoy you as you constantly thinking about it will also make the situation worse. It is like anxiety, the more we focus on the symptoms and the way we feel, the more we seem to experience and even magnify how we feel. You will feel right, BELIEVE you will, you will get there.
Well I saw cookie cutter from hubby and Imine experience. His MD associate told me to sit in the sun, take fish oil pills which is a NO NO for someone with Sarcoidosis. This disease MAKES too much calcium (calcifying organs, kidney stones) and Vitamin D (causes a whole host of symptoms, anxiety, headaches only a few off a huge list). Some of his info is good. But like anyone, he is promoting himself and his "empire". He sells much of the stuff he touts people should take. (fish oil caps, protein drinks, eco friendly shopping bags, cookwear, vitamin D sun beds, his "inner circle" membership that has you pay for his info at it as one time $19.95/month, etc, etc). Helpful to people's health or helping himself through desperate, vulnerable people?
Anyhow, keep hanging in there. It is possible to feel good again. Think that. What you think, you feel, and what you feel, you think which will make life so much more pleasant.
My natural MD I see now manages me not only by labs, but how I feel. He allows me to adjust my meds according to how I feel FIRST. He has placed this trust in me by talking to him about my symptoms, etc.
The mental fog you are speaking of could be from the adrenal fatigue (AF). You mentioned that you get a second wind in the evening, which is totally normal with AF. I too was a morning person. I still get up early, it is just that my full brain power does not kick in until about mid morning. (9-10am). I used to have more energy in the morning, just get out of bed and hit the floor. Now, most days I take 20 minutes to even have my feet hit the floor after the alarm clock has gone off. I have to understand that I am getting older and do not have the same get up and go as I did several years back when I just popped out of bed and hot the ground running. I have accepted what is. Sure I still have some morning where I hit the ground running, but they are not everyday like they used to be.
Well I was on armour for almost a year. I felt better than when I was not on it, but still I felt something was not 100%. My thyroid specialist that my sister introduced me to suggested Synthroid 75 mcg. Well I tried that and felt better than when on the Armour 90 mcg. (my pharmacy was happy too because they are having issues getting Armour here.) Anyhow I also noticed that I also was losing weight. Nothing alarming, but better than the Armour. Doc tested and made sure we were not hypothyroid and all numbers came back in range so no adjustment to synthroid. For insurance costs I have gone on the generic Synthroid and it has been fine. I have my mental game. But I also had the AF last year that I dealt with. I followed many of the suggestions in that AF book I spoke of above and it took several months to start feeling "normal" again. I remembered phone numbers again, I could remember things and did not have to write everything on a sticky note pasted to my head. Is my mind 100%? No, but it is much better than it was. I also do not get sick for weeks on end without resolve. It has been nice not to have a cold for over a year. With AF, I seemed to get everything (cold, flu) and those would lag one for weeks and weeks. If I would get it and it seemed to get better and then it would start all over again, the cough, fever, etc. I am almost certain I got the AF from prednisone use for my sarcoidosis. But my useless lung MD never checked anything even though prednisone drug sheets warn of adrenal issues.
Yes, when I have too much thyroid meds, it IS hard to get a deep breathe in. It feels as if I am gasping to get a breathe. If I take less thyroid med for a couple days, I can breathe again. And you are correct, when the dose for thyroid meds are too high, you can experience anxiety
. I printed some of Mary Shomons (sp) stuff out and showed that to my primary MD when he was managing my thyroid meds and he did not even seem to know some of the symptoms of too much thyroid meds. Go figure, but MD's do NOT know everything. My thyroid specialist is a 65 year old pistol, an expert and respect thyroid/diabetes MD out of Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge, Illinois, but he is fuddy duddy. I have my alternative(natural) MD check my thyroid too and he allows wiggle room. The "expert" is a bit more rigid, managing only by numbers. I have not even sure I will see him again as my natural MD and I seem to have this worked out. Sometimes a highly respected pro on the subject is not the absolute best option. I agree with you about being able to SIT and read without the mind wandering. It sounds as if some of your symptoms are settling, but there could be improvement in other areas. (again AF could be part of the issue, which regular allopathic MDs balk at and look at you as if you are strange. Some may test, but that test is only at one time during the day and does not cover AM, noon, PM and bedtime) Do not get discouraged as getting everything resolved not happen with the first try. It takes some trial and error, patience on your part as well as your MD's. Do not allow these things annoy you as you constantly thinking about it will also make the situation worse. It is like anxiety, the more we focus on the symptoms and the way we feel, the more we seem to experience and even magnify how we feel. You will feel right, BELIEVE you will, you will get there.
Well I saw cookie cutter from hubby and Imine experience. His MD associate told me to sit in the sun, take fish oil pills which is a NO NO for someone with Sarcoidosis. This disease MAKES too much calcium (calcifying organs, kidney stones) and Vitamin D (causes a whole host of symptoms, anxiety, headaches only a few off a huge list). Some of his info is good. But like anyone, he is promoting himself and his "empire". He sells much of the stuff he touts people should take. (fish oil caps, protein drinks, eco friendly shopping bags, cookwear, vitamin D sun beds, his "inner circle" membership that has you pay for his info at it as one time $19.95/month, etc, etc). Helpful to people's health or helping himself through desperate, vulnerable people?
Anyhow, keep hanging in there. It is possible to feel good again. Think that. What you think, you feel, and what you feel, you think which will make life so much more pleasant.
"Afterall, everybody only hears what he understands." by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
hey shcnauzer mom,
i really love this conversation with you, as it sounds as though you have been through alot of what i am dealing with now.
yeah, something kicked in last night, as I went to bed around midnight, only to wake up around 6:30am (less than my usual 8-9 hrs), a tad anxious. about what, nothing.
sometimes i believe that somewhere in my subconcious i was resting too deeply, and i have been conditioned that relaxation is bad, gotta keep going, etc.
but the Adrenal Fatigue does sound more and more like an issue that may possibly be dragging me down. Perhaps the most encouraging thing i have found is that healing, though long, does happen on its own.
and i did tell my current doctor about my question of any role my adrenal glands may be playing in my mental fog/ mental tiredness/ unrefreshing sleep despite adequate time (8-9 hours). she agreed that on a physiological level the adrenals and thyroid are closely related, and people who have one could have a problem with the other.
she closed down after that though, as she quoted me the symptoms of what I believe was adrenal cancer; or where you get short, intense shots of adrenaline for no reason and out of the blue. Thank God, but I have never experienced this. she was not game to talking any further about a subclinical level of adrenal fatigue.
i have spent some time online with this, and think that part of the reason comes from doctor education (or lack thereof) on this topic, and that the testing revolves around chronic levels of adrenal disfunction (disease state).
i have the book on hold at my library, and hope to get it tomorrow or tuesday.
it's sad to hear about your experience with Mercola, but it does not shock me. i will usually get info from a variety of sources, and if the info seems consistent (and tests confirm), then i will usually jump on board for a trial. like Vitamin D, for instance. Or selenium. Both seem promising. i just started on 200 mcg of selenium yesterday.
how long did it take you to recover from Adrenal Fatigue?
i really love this conversation with you, as it sounds as though you have been through alot of what i am dealing with now.
yeah, something kicked in last night, as I went to bed around midnight, only to wake up around 6:30am (less than my usual 8-9 hrs), a tad anxious. about what, nothing.
sometimes i believe that somewhere in my subconcious i was resting too deeply, and i have been conditioned that relaxation is bad, gotta keep going, etc.
but the Adrenal Fatigue does sound more and more like an issue that may possibly be dragging me down. Perhaps the most encouraging thing i have found is that healing, though long, does happen on its own.
and i did tell my current doctor about my question of any role my adrenal glands may be playing in my mental fog/ mental tiredness/ unrefreshing sleep despite adequate time (8-9 hours). she agreed that on a physiological level the adrenals and thyroid are closely related, and people who have one could have a problem with the other.
she closed down after that though, as she quoted me the symptoms of what I believe was adrenal cancer; or where you get short, intense shots of adrenaline for no reason and out of the blue. Thank God, but I have never experienced this. she was not game to talking any further about a subclinical level of adrenal fatigue.
i have spent some time online with this, and think that part of the reason comes from doctor education (or lack thereof) on this topic, and that the testing revolves around chronic levels of adrenal disfunction (disease state).
i have the book on hold at my library, and hope to get it tomorrow or tuesday.
it's sad to hear about your experience with Mercola, but it does not shock me. i will usually get info from a variety of sources, and if the info seems consistent (and tests confirm), then i will usually jump on board for a trial. like Vitamin D, for instance. Or selenium. Both seem promising. i just started on 200 mcg of selenium yesterday.
how long did it take you to recover from Adrenal Fatigue?
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~*schnauzermom*~
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
If I can remember correctly it was about 7-8 months to start feeling like I was getting back to normal again. This AF can be fixed though and this is the most encouraging part. It is rest, diet, keeping your "energy zappers" away from you. With AF you are o be in bed by 10pm because that 2nd wind can keep you up until early hours. need to avoid plums, chocolate, cruciferous veggies...there is more but this is what comes to mind off the top of my head. You may or may not be told to take DHEA as well. (watch that one with the thyroid meds as anxiety could get out of control.how long did it take you to recover from Adrenal Fatigue?
Mercola, ah! I read from several sources and make my own judgement. I feel sometimes Mercola has blinders on and it is his way or the high way. I have found that one size preaching does not fit everyone. That is why now I deal with a small practicing MD that takes several sources (Mercola included) and tailors healing towards the individuals needs.
Get that book and really listen to what it states about diet, rest and avoiding energy sappers. Take good care of yourself!
"Afterall, everybody only hears what he understands." by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Hey Paul! I have been without a computer for a week now. Looks like you have been having great conversations that are very helpful to us all.
I have an appt with an endocrinologist in February and did not even think to ask if they believe in adrenal fatigue or think that the only problem with adrenals is the worst as my regular md does. So I shall call and ask. I am very interested in a natural md, although I am not sure we have one where I live. But it sounds to me as though it would be worth traveling.
By the way, congratulations on the upcoming event in 2009. Babies are God's gift to us. Remind yourself everyday to take time to enjoy this gift. It is easier at first than it is when you are tired, when they become two, when they become teens.... But one day when they are all grown up and present you with grandchildren AND along the way say they understand now why you disciplined them the way you did, you will believe it was all worth it.
It is!
God bless you and your wife with His love, peace of mind, and abundant joy for and in life.
I have an appt with an endocrinologist in February and did not even think to ask if they believe in adrenal fatigue or think that the only problem with adrenals is the worst as my regular md does. So I shall call and ask. I am very interested in a natural md, although I am not sure we have one where I live. But it sounds to me as though it would be worth traveling.
By the way, congratulations on the upcoming event in 2009. Babies are God's gift to us. Remind yourself everyday to take time to enjoy this gift. It is easier at first than it is when you are tired, when they become two, when they become teens.... But one day when they are all grown up and present you with grandchildren AND along the way say they understand now why you disciplined them the way you did, you will believe it was all worth it.
It is!God bless you and your wife with His love, peace of mind, and abundant joy for and in life.
schnauzer mom,
thank you for the feedback. i do get that second wind after 9-10pm, and it can keep me up into the morning hours if i am not careful (1am-ish).
amazingly, i seem to be feeling better on armour 1/4 grain now that i have hit through some sort of wall on saturday.
on thanksgiving, when i first switched to armour, i felt as though i was on cloud 9. amazing! then, on 'black friday', i hit the weight room, and upon returning home came down with a cold.
the cold knocked me out for a few days, but i had terrible mental fatigue that had me just about ready to call the doctor. well, this past saturday, i woke feeling as though i could still use a few hours (after getting 8) of sleep, and had a pretty miserable day where i was fighting to pay attention, focus, etc...when, all of a sudden, after my wife and i returned home in the evening, i began to feel revitalized.
i went to bed at about 10pm, and woke at 6am with a sort of anxious feeling. i was peppy all day sunday, and ever since then, i am now sleeping soundly and waking up better than the past few weeks. my energy levels now seem consistent throughout the day as well (something that i had been struggling with prior).
my mood is much better, and although i know that something is still slightly off (adrenals, anxiety/worry still hanging around on some level) as I am still a little "off" throughout the day, mentally I feel much better so far. these past few days have been good.
thank you for the feedback. i do get that second wind after 9-10pm, and it can keep me up into the morning hours if i am not careful (1am-ish).
amazingly, i seem to be feeling better on armour 1/4 grain now that i have hit through some sort of wall on saturday.
on thanksgiving, when i first switched to armour, i felt as though i was on cloud 9. amazing! then, on 'black friday', i hit the weight room, and upon returning home came down with a cold.
the cold knocked me out for a few days, but i had terrible mental fatigue that had me just about ready to call the doctor. well, this past saturday, i woke feeling as though i could still use a few hours (after getting 8) of sleep, and had a pretty miserable day where i was fighting to pay attention, focus, etc...when, all of a sudden, after my wife and i returned home in the evening, i began to feel revitalized.
i went to bed at about 10pm, and woke at 6am with a sort of anxious feeling. i was peppy all day sunday, and ever since then, i am now sleeping soundly and waking up better than the past few weeks. my energy levels now seem consistent throughout the day as well (something that i had been struggling with prior).
my mood is much better, and although i know that something is still slightly off (adrenals, anxiety/worry still hanging around on some level) as I am still a little "off" throughout the day, mentally I feel much better so far. these past few days have been good.
sandrakay,
thank you so very much for the blessings and well wishes!
my wife and i thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
this is our first baby, and though i hear alot of stories of what can happen, i know that to focus on what IS is the most important thing of all.
(and I pray that lack of sleep for me and wifey will not be too much of a problem).
thank you so very much for the blessings and well wishes!
my wife and i thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
this is our first baby, and though i hear alot of stories of what can happen, i know that to focus on what IS is the most important thing of all.
(and I pray that lack of sleep for me and wifey will not be too much of a problem).
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~*schnauzermom*~
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:24 pm
Hi Paul!
I was out of town, in town now for a few days and will be going out of town once again.
Anyhow, it may take several weeks to feel balanced again. I can say that stress (which includes anxiety and worry) also plays a huge role as it tends to suck the life out of us, it saps so much energy. I have been helping my sister at her new feed store (dogs, cats horses and small animals) and I have to say I have felt pretty darn awesome! No stress, no worries, no nothing. I had THE worst traffic getting home due to the shopping malls I needed to pass on my way home, but I listened to my Christmas CD and nothing flustered me, not the guy that cut me off, or the people that turned on red...nothing! I was as cool as a cucumber!
I think once your sleeping pattern becomes regular, you will feel the anxious feelings leave. In he several weeks before my sister opened her doors, she could not sleep and literally was becoming a wreck due to lack of sleep. Now, she is sleeping better, is not anxious and is doing pretty darn good. Just hang in there. Sometimes it is the sleep factor and nothing else.
Be well!
Liz
I was out of town, in town now for a few days and will be going out of town once again.
Anyhow, it may take several weeks to feel balanced again. I can say that stress (which includes anxiety and worry) also plays a huge role as it tends to suck the life out of us, it saps so much energy. I have been helping my sister at her new feed store (dogs, cats horses and small animals) and I have to say I have felt pretty darn awesome! No stress, no worries, no nothing. I had THE worst traffic getting home due to the shopping malls I needed to pass on my way home, but I listened to my Christmas CD and nothing flustered me, not the guy that cut me off, or the people that turned on red...nothing! I was as cool as a cucumber!
I think once your sleeping pattern becomes regular, you will feel the anxious feelings leave. In he several weeks before my sister opened her doors, she could not sleep and literally was becoming a wreck due to lack of sleep. Now, she is sleeping better, is not anxious and is doing pretty darn good. Just hang in there. Sometimes it is the sleep factor and nothing else.
Be well!
Liz
"Afterall, everybody only hears what he understands." by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
I am just 4 days out from having a thyroid nodule removed. The great news is that there was no cancer! I am feeling pretty lethargic - which is pretty normal after undergoing surgery, but I must admit it is harder to keep positive thoughts flowing right now. I am really trying hard not to be too hard on my expectations to bounce back to normal quickly. Any words of experience or encouragement?