Stress Center Peer Support

I haven't done Lucinda's program although I enjoy the message board and have read some of her stuff. I've been in CBT since January, got significantly better in the spring, and then back slid in June when I ended up in quite a bad work situation. I'm trying to come out of this now. I feel like my therapist was energized and I was showing progression as we went through each step of CBT. Now that I am seeing him again, I almost feel like I am throwing money away as we don't seem to be progressing. Part of it may be in that I am simply "stuck". I can intellectualize the whole anxiety and CBT thing in that a understand it all quite well on the rational level. But I've had major problems dealing with things in the heat of panic. The therapist also keeps telling me to "re-read the book" but I don't see anything new there....as I said, I'm just not applying it as I'm not clear and he keeps saying the same things over and over without new guidance. I'm in a rut and I'm not getting new info to get over the hump.
1. Anyone ever been in the boat? What did you do?
2. Can anyone compare Lucinda's program versus regular CBT? I'm curious as to the impressions in comparing them.

I feel like I've spent so much on a therapist now that although I don't quite feel him moving me forward, that trying someone or something different (like Lucinda's program) would be wasting the cash I've already spent and force me to spend more cash!!! I'm seeing him weekly again and I really don't want to be doing so....especially when I walk out feeling the same as when I walked in. I've asked for more homework and I'm just being told "it is all in the book". Suggestions? His only recent suggestion was that I should go on Lexapro for awhile but that feels like a bit of a cop out (not a judgment to those of you on it, it just seemed a strange comment as if he doesn't know what else to do with me at this point!).

Oh my, everyone is so tired of me writing an essay about this, so I won't this time. Yes, Lucinda's program works. For me, it worked because it is designed to work. The structure of each CD + homework + coaching DVD + online help with homework snags = you keep moving. If you don't, there is only one reason, because you gave up. My depression was so bad, I won't even go there. I am on Session 10. I am a new thinking person. You can PM me if you like. As a therapist who learned CBT many years ago, knows it backwards and forwards, this is CBT, and much more. The program is excellent. Someone who knows (I mean KNOWS) their stuff, took all the best, most workable parts of more than a hundred years of therapy, and applied them into this program. Trust it, and trust yourself.

P.S. As an after thought, if you'd like to first review some of the really useful techniques which are incorporated into Lucinda's program in addition to Beck's CBT, review the work of Maxwell Maltz, M.D., and James W. Pennebaker, PhD. This program just slips these techniques in where needed, and you learn to use them, and it is truly effective to get change.

Hi Irish,

I am wondering, first of all, can you give us an example of the CBT you are learning? That would be helpful because very often CBT can be as simple a statement as: Go ahead, do your worst. Let's see what you can do. ("You" being the anxiety or obsession, of course.) Also, I will handle it, is another great CBT phrase. In other words, you aren't taking away the fact that you have anxiety; you are acknowledging that you have it but that you can handle it. It is a form of acceptance which, in turn, minimizes the sensations.

Also, feel the feelings you get with being stuck. Don't push them away because feeling those feelings will help to move them through. Being stuck is not a bad thing. It just means that your thinking mind can't come up with any other ideas of how to heal. You don't want to hear from your thinking mind anyway. Get to a quiet place in your mind. Even if it's for a split second. Use your breath to take you there. This will help to get yourself out of the way for a little while.

I'd like to see an example of your CBT, tho, if you don't mind. It would be helpful.

Thank you.

pecos and boon: thanks for the replies....you are two people I hoped would respond.

The CBT I went through used "Mastery of your Panic and Anxiety" by Barlow and Craske as my guide....this seems a popular purchase on Amazon! The therapist spoke about each section, walked me through some of the exercises and off I went for the week. I did better as the program went on, finished the book, my therapist pronounced me as better and ready to be independent...off I went. However, I retained some general anxiety due to unresolved life issues (work/relationship) and the fact that I don't believe I 100% bought off on certain things (acceptance for instance). Also, without a program to keep following, I got off track and basically stopped working at it and once I had a major work issue, bang, I was panicking again, and I spiraled deep into despair as "it was back".

Since being back seeing the therapist, I get a lot of "re-read the book". Or we search for some kind of exposure. Or we review a panic episode I may have had. But that still doesn't feel like I am progressing....I feel that without the standard 12 week CBT program to go through, my therapist has no new answers or things for me to try. I definately hear from my therapist things like "you can handle it", "it won't harm you", etc. I agree as I've noted, intellectually I get what it is and why I have it. But all summer I've felt kind of blowing in the wind on this as I have nothing concrete to use from my therapist. A common theme I've had with him is "I hate the feeling I get and so I fear having an attack". So we discuss that it isn't harmful, etc. and on my intellectual side I get it, but then an attack starts to happen, I flail around as I don't know what to do which makes it worse, I run to my spouse or leave messages for my therapist, then I eventually calm down and feel like an idiot as despite thousands of dollars spent on this, I still don't know what to do!!! This is where I wonder if Lucinda's program will give me a more concrete framework and something that is more easily referred to in times of need?

A final note: the therapist thinks I'm running "hotter" than usual due to my summer long work issues creating instability in my life. Add to this a spouse who is fixated on worry over money as well as change in my kids school situation. This is where his mention of Lexapro comes in but it still feels like he doesn't know what else to do with me. I'd still like to beat this myself and get back to being me.

Any thoughts, Boon???

There are two things that I see, Irish. Number One - YES, Lucinda's program will give you the structure you are looking for and, also, exposure to your anxiety will be very helpful. Freedom from Fear by Howard Liebgold is an excellent source for exposure and guidelines to follow. This is just another recommendation.

You must be patient with your progress. Soothe and comfort yourself all the time. Talk to yourself as if you were talking to a small child. "It's OK to have anxiety. It will not hurt you." "If this is as good as it gets, I will handle it." "I can still function even through anxious moments." Find those phrases that soothe and comfort.

Your frustration with your therapist may be because that is all he can offer. I don't know. Therapy can only go so far. This program takes it much further as does Freedom from Fear.

Once you learn the tools, it is important to stick with them and make them a way of life. It doesn't mean you won't have anxiety again. it means that when you do experience it you know you can handle it, and you no longer let anxiety rule your life.

Boon: Thanks for the response. My frustration with my therapist is that this does seem to be all he can offer. I am getting the same comments over and over from him again. I realize that I'm not putting some aspects of CBT into use regularly and when I tell him I need help doing so, I get "re-read the book" or "you just need to do it". Neither is a motivator. Also, as I've noted, we've lost structure in therapy so I go in hoping for more answers or another step forward and I walk out with nothing new. I need another push of some kind and he can't seem to offer it which is why I continue to feel like I am grasping for more. To some degree, he is right, I just need to follow what I learned in CBT. I have done well recently despite Friday's "surprise" and there has been progress but I know I am not quite behaving or reacting the same as I did say 12 months ago. It still seems acceptance is my hardest issue...when anxiety comes on small, I can push it back with self talk, but when it is bigger I shift into "oh no" phase like I did Friday and it goes on its own. I'm still seeking answers I suppose as to getting out of this rut....I have made good progress and I realize that. I feel frustrated by therapy but still feel I need it yet find it not doing much....this catch-22 predicament I find myself in. 8 years ago, I somehow got myself out of this after a couple months by doing things that I only found out later were part of CBT! The fact that this time it has dragged on for 8 months despite actually being in formal therapy has been a drag. Maybe Lucinda's formal program is more my speed: it may reinforce what I already know but also give some structure in areas where I need more structure.

Your therapist is doing fine and sounds like he is good support for you right now. I get the message from you, too, that you just wish you didn't have to deal with this. Your first step is to acknowledge that, yes, I do have panic attack disorder and I know I must learn the tools and practice daily. You certainly don't have to like it, but it would behoove you to stop fighting it. There is no overnight cure. It takes time to heal from this. That's all there is to it. I wish it was easier but your hard work will pay off for you. You will feel less and less anxious and you will get to a place where it doesn't matter one way or the other if you have anxiety. You will know that YOU CAN HANDLE IT. When you get to that point then you are free.

Meds can help. They are like a bandaide until you see the tools working for you. Or, you don't have to take the meds. Some people prefer not to, and that's OK, too.

Go to the mirror and accept your anxiety disorder. Embrace yourself all the time. It's easy to be kind to yourself when we feel good. The trick is in being kind to yourself even when you don't.

It just may be that your therapist is also "stuck" and cannot offer anything else at this point to unstick you. You will probably either need to find another therapist, or take what you already know and go farther on your own. I've done several types of CBT and found that the structure with this program is what I needed - a progressive structure that previous therapists did not give me for some reason. It does take a lot of self motivation and patience, but it is well worth it. The program will definitely reinforce what you already know.

I can intellectually understand why I have the disorder, why it happens, it isn't harmful, etc. but Boon is right that I do wish that I didn't have to deal with it. When the feelings start, I forget everything I've learned and go into "oh crap" mode which just fuels it further. I've gotten better at being easy on myself when an episode happens but, yeah, I wish I was "cured". I somehow need to get to the point where anxiety or panic starts and I go "yawn, no big deal, I know what this is and it will come and then go". I think I am staying with my therapist for the answer as to how I do this and I am frustrated as he seems to keep saying the same thing. The light isn't going off for me so he has suggested meds but I don't want to do meds. I can admit that I am probably closer to doing as you say now then I was when all this started....so I suppose I should look at that as progress and not beat myself over not quite being there yet (which I do as well and also probably does not help). When anxiety and panic starts, I need to figure out a way to not forget everything and use some of the tools that I've learned. To say day just smile and ride it out would be quite an achievement....I hope to get there! While Lucinda's program will give me more structure, maybe that is a false hope as it won't answer how I accept this finally and don't let the anxiety or panic rule me? How is the program with my particular issue of acceptance???? Can anyone comment?

I so can relate to the issue of acceptance. Although, I am very new in this program the acceptance part is one that is very difficult for me as well. It as if I get caught off guard every time strong anxiety feelings come on instead of just working on being there and riding them out. I hope in time I will get better at this.....Acceptance I beleive is key for my journey but, one that happens I think in its own timing....I appreciate your posts as it helps me in my learning process.