Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Are obsessive scary thoughts ruling your life? Do these thoughts seem beyond your control? Here’s how you can quickly address them and begin to feel better.
Ninjafrodo2
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by Ninjafrodo2 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:15 pm

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I made this picture and it was for a project about being my own hero...its the way I want to live instead of trying to depend on fulfilling my needs externally for others and while working on this picture it finally clicked about why co-dependency can be a detrimental thing. If we depend on another person or circumstances to give us what we need then its like needing to be fed by someone everyday and how frequent during those days would depend on how much the person "needs" that other person. It gets taxing, it also feels really awful when the person doesn't "feed" us with what we need and it can cause us to get angry, controling and demanding just in order to fulfill our needs...and what happens if suddenly that person leaves for whatever reason? Then we just end up starving until we find someone else that can fulfill that role and how long would that take to get to that point? Not to mention that sometimes the other person may not know how to fulfill those needs and that can even be stressful.

So we learn to feed ourselves and then what we catch, we can share with others. :) Wow that was soo good I think i'm going to write that in the book i'm going to publish.

THH
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by THH » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:16 pm

Mike a great reminder about if we get our needs from another person we become co-dependent on them. I had trouble understanding this co dependent thing. I too find myself being dependent on mostly my husband, he is the closest person to me.
My parents are old and I used to depend on my father for so much support. Now even at his old age he is there for me, but its not the same. I am the adult and he is the kid! And I love him for it. But he even gets mad because I am too much of a worrier. ( ME ???)
These old guys in my life are so strong and tuff. They fight for their independence and are so brave. I want to be like them!
If we depend on another person or circumstances to give us what we need then its like needing to be fed by someone everyday and how frequent during those days would depend on how much the person "needs" that other person. It gets taxing, it also feels really awful when the person doesn't "feed" us with what we need and it can cause us to get angry, controling and demanding just in order to fulfill our needs...and what happens if suddenly that person leaves for whatever reason? Then we just end up starving until we find someone else that can fulfill that role and how long would that take to get to that point? Not to mention that sometimes the other person may not know how to fulfill those needs and that can even be stressful.
Great insight! :)

LOL... I'm happy too. Funny thing is when I think about it, I could be that person if ask by the right person to really tell them "how I am" LOL... Oh GOD...
I have a hard time saying everything is good! So I am going to start today saying everything is good. No troubles or aches or pains or this hurts or that. :D
I have been on the receiving end of my kind, and I don't like it. So I got some work to do.
You go Mike, I'll work it too!

You did it great! Today I looked for good in warm house I have as it was -1 this am. I looked at how many blessings I really have in my life. I enjoyed taking my dogs out in the freezing cold, but they loved it. The young dog ran and played in the most comical way. It was fun to see him so happy and no cares. I looked for good in my bank deposit as I can pay my bills. I looked for good in my car starting up as it was so cold. So I found good in lots of places, actually too many to write. There really is so much good, but you do have to look for it before you can see it. Maybe that is a wording you can find for a picture for?

LOL... seams so obvious now that I see it in writing! LOL.... MOM. She made sure I learned well (teehee)
I like the thought of just seeing it as a memory. Maybe you could give a few examples of just that. Different things that you just see as a memory. And if you catch me you could add a thought replacement but it seams I don't remember them very well. I can read them and they sound great but when I get to where I really could use one, I go blank. Thank you for your insight Mike, it has always made me think more clearer. I'm the person in the book that makes such a general statement it could mean anything. Writing on this site has improved my clarity, even though it needs more work.
The picture of the rain forest looking one. All the beautiful lush green leaves look so bright and clear. Such a welcome sight from our white frozen land. :D

I have to tap into my humor a little before I can think of something clever to add to the long list of funnies! LOL

forever young 06
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by forever young 06 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:29 pm

we have really slowed down seems. I am dragging. I made it at the dentist. 2 hours 3 teeth filled did find. I don't like my mouth opened so long and laying back so far in the chair. sometimes my heart flutters when I am in a reclined position. but I did find I am proud of myself. I almost asked my husband to go with me but hated for him to have to set so long.

listened to the audio today and loved hearing Jackie talk about how well she was doing. I don't seem to be doing the best. I need more work. I am going to keep working and we are going to do it again right. hope everyone stays warm

Ninjafrodo2
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by Ninjafrodo2 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:39 pm

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Its interesting out of all the other times I've gone through this lesson none of them have ever been this deep. I am realizing alot of stuff about myself and getting to a level of understanding that I had never experienced before its not easy but it is definately amazing and empowering.

There was a scary image on a show I was watching, this guy's face was half blown off where he kind of reminded me of the terminator and then I realized that it was the skull that I was seeing and not a metal shell of a robot and it was disturbing. So I tried to see it in a more humorus way and what I did was imagine him in a clown costume dancing around and doing silly clown tricks for people and being happy and funny and it definately helped! I felt relieved and not obsessed about the situation which in the past I would easily do....I don't just obsess over my own stuff, I do it with other people's stuff too, including fictional character's stuff.

Alot of stuff in the workbook stood out to me today...I liked how they mention that the thought is not the problem but the style of thinking and how it comes up when we don't want to deal with a situation and instead follow through on the thoughts, to ask what is wrong and face that.

I liked the gate idea but i'm more into the idea of opening the gate and letting the obsessive thoughts go out instead of being trapped in.

I also like the example of countering the thoughts....they used breathing and reminding how we cannot forget to breathe. I have a problem with speaking and getting the words out and so this can help to remind me that I am very fluent in speaking and I can get the words out and have been doing that for years successfully, I just get stuck sometimes when I start having obesssive thoughts.

I like the part about distinguishing between irrational and rational fears as well as questioning the thoughts validity and finding evidence against the thought. I know that finding evidence against the thought actually helps to put the lie to the thought and that is the very basis of thought replacement. Its not so much about trying to make yourself feel better as it is trying to convince yourself that the thought is untrue...once you convince yourself it isn't true, that is what makes you feel better and then you can also add empowerment to it as well.

The Biggest part however is the part that we fill in our most common obsessive thought...I did this and realized that this is the very thought that started me into my anxiety and depression path!!! This is pretty huge for me!!! This is the thought;

"What-if when I do or say something to someone that I think is acceptable/right is actually unacceptable/wrong and as a result the people I care about cut me out of their life and want nothing to do with me?"

->I couldn't trust myself because of this and this actually happened to me when I was 12. Its why I doubt myself so much and don't trust myself and my abilities and its also why I would use other people's responses as an indicitation of right or wrong and why I've gotten stuck in that trap and not been able to get out of it! I seem to be afraid that this will happen again, it was very painful for me when it did and its like I need to prepare because the thought itself makes me feel like its going to keep happening.

So what can I do about this?

I can really look at the situation that caused this at the beginning and compare it to now as well as how I can better indicate whats right and wrong, how to turn to the right people if I get stucka nd whatever.
->I'm not the same person I used to be, I have a better set of standards, beliefs and respect for people and as long as my intentions are good and I am respectable and willing to correct my errors or appologize if I did offend then I am right and I cannot judge my actions based on other people's responses because they aren't always right either and they can have unrealistic expectations and dthey make mistakes and respond inappropriately either and they can have problems with communicating and being assertive too. I can't read people's minds and I don't always know what is appropriate or inappropriate for people and thats not my fault, i'm human.


I'm proud of myself for getting to the bottom of the most common obsessive thought and i'm thankful that the obsessive thinking lesson helped to guide me to it.


Mike

Ninjafrodo2
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by Ninjafrodo2 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:55 pm

THH;

You can be like them and you are working towards being more like that and you've become a bit more like that.

I'm not sure what i mean about being that right person to really tell them how you are. could you elaborate?

Its not about seeing everything as good, its about seeing the good and letting it dilute the negative stuff. Allow the negative stuff to be what it is because it is but focus on the good stuff. If you deny the negative stuff or refuse to look at it then that can be really bad as it keeps coming to haunt you but if you can accept it and redirect your focus to the positive then that will dilute it and take away its power over you as well as help you break free of dwelling on the negative and coming up with stories about it and about how the future is going to be awful and horrible and blah blah blah.

See you found lots of good things :D

Yeah I couldn't help but write it down like that...i think you may have automatically just filtered out that possibility because she is your mother and you are trying not to see her in a negative way but thats just my assumption.

You're welcome for all the insight and I can definately help in those areas.

1)Don't try to remember these things...its not about finding the magical words and then expecting yourself to pull them out of your memory bank when the time comes up...its about developing the skill of replacing your thoughts so that when you get into a situation you are able to access that questioning and replacing skill in the moment.

2)I can definately help you replace thoughts

3)I donm't know why i'm numbering things

4)A memory thought ok...people laughed at me and made fun of me in school so when I hear people around me laughing I automatically assume it is at me. That is one example. Another one would be what I mentioned in my last post about fearing that I might go through that same situation again where if I say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing then the person i care about is just going to walk away from me...so that memory comes up. For you it could be that you had a negative experience in the doctors office where you felt a panic attack and as a result you have a memory of it when you go in there and it causes the fear of it happening again.

Does that help?

5)Yeah I really like that picture as well, it is awesome


ForeverYoung;
Great job with going to the dentist...seems like now everybody in the group is up to speed with the dentistry exposure :P

As for the rest of your post...I remember you saying you had a hard time recognizing your negative thoughts. I want you to reread your post and see if you can find some in there and then post what you find here and then we can go over it with you in order to help you out if you'd like.


Mike

THH
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by THH » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:07 pm

I get what Mike said
Its not about seeing everything as good, its about seeing the good and letting it dilute the negative stuff. Allow the negative stuff to be what it is because it is but focus on the good stuff. If you deny the negative stuff or refuse to look at it then that can be really bad as it keeps coming to haunt you but if you can accept it and redirect your focus to the positive then that will dilute it and take away its power over you as well as help you break free of dwelling on the negative and coming up with stories about it and about how the future is going to be awful and horrible and blah blah blah.
Interesting enough, today I have been a little spun up about the weather. If I would let my imagination create a bunch of bad things to scare myself I could easily need to take a pill. ( Xanax )
Instead I allowed myself to feel the fear of this cold weather no that it is a real threat, but realize that I am alright. Same with my dental fears, any of those thoughts could be real, but they are not. I am safe, I can control my thoughts and if anyone of my thoughts would ever come true, I could deal with it then. I do not need to spend my time thinking of every bad thing and a solution, just in case!
So this was very helpful to me too. And yes we all have taken our turn in the chair! LOL... Great job Forever Young!

Also Mike you said that very well. :D

Great job to you too on solving the big obsessive thought for your self! :D :D :D
I feel like I found a good way of feeling my anxiety and letting it dilute. This is key for me as well.

Love your comment on numbering too! LOL...

Good point on replacing the thoughts what ever they are, rather than keep entertaining what is causing me to feel unstable or threatened. Wonderful examples you used.
Fear of doctors could very well be a childhood fear, as I always got tonsillitis, and had to get a shot in my butt! I fought like crazy had many nurses hold me down to get the shot. I wonder why they never sat me down and talked to me, rather force me against my will! It could be a bad memory.

So yes Mike lots of help! yay feel good!

THH
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by THH » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:19 pm

Forever Young,
This is not easy, it takes time and awareness. It is a life changing process and it seams that we want instant changes. We make some changes and it helps, but then we experience some of the same behavior and get scared or frustrated. The key for me is keep trying, find some new words that fit how I feel or something I can connect with better.
I am going to keep working and we are going to do it again right.
RIGHT!!!! :)

forever young 06
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by forever young 06 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:45 am

yes we have all been to the dentist now whats next? I am laughing when you talked mike about the show making you anxious over the person that got the side of their face blow off making you anxious I thought about a movie I was watching and I wasn't feeling good and how I reacted to it. the movie was Mrs Dountfire I can't spell it. Iight was at the place where he was dressed like a woman and he was at the restaurant with two different people and was on time suppose to be a man and with the next as an older woman. He was running back and forward to the bathroom to change and I started to feel anxious and this is suppose to be funny. I can chuckle now but it is funny how things can make us react.

okay Mike here is the negative in that statement and by the way I was feeling down that day.
I am dragging, I might not be moving to fast but I am moving forward

I don't seem to be doing the best, I am trying at least it is not going to happen over night

I need more work, I am not where I want to be but with work I can get there

what do you think? what can you add? I haven't worked on my limitations yet and I feel I am down over that but the weather has not been good for driving. I will try it when the time is right. I also think I need to work on the elevator too. I am going to work up the courage just will take time. these are my worst fears.

Ninjafrodo2
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by Ninjafrodo2 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:30 pm

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I'm still at it with the fear facing and despite the challenges and the resistance, i'm still able to get through it and well boy do I resist it! Empowering myself before hand and replacing my thoughts really save me when it comes to that and now i'm working on acknowledging my own accomplishments and all my attempts even if they don't turn out the way I want them too, by doing that I will change the belief that I need to be perfect and that mistakes are bad to a belief that trying and attempting no matter how it turns out is an accomplishment.

What i'm becoming more aware of as I continue to plug away is that it really is about how you perceive things...about the acknowledgement and value you place on things and not about the things themselves. I've noticed that if I don't acknowledge my accomplishments then when I do succeed in the task it can leave me feeling empty but when I do acknowledge them then I feel good although right now i'm slightly feeling accomplished and not fully feeling it because its still pretty new and it was the same way when I first started to eat or first started any skill and so thats ok. Sometimes even when I do acknowledge my accomplishment I feel empty or even negative and then in that situation I have to pull out my notepad and write through the thought and usually the thought goes like this "So what, big deal, anybody can do that" and then I have to remind myself that it doesn't have to be really big or something that other people cannot do in order for me to deserve to feel accomplished.....By the way THH you asked for an example of a memory type reaction well here is a great one...this is what my family would say to me that is coming back to the surface but in this situation.

I've been practicing the thought replacement on a daily basis consistently since the program said for us to work on our limitations and I'm really starting to see the benefits here. When some of my anticipatory thoughts come up, i'm starting to identify them right away as just a story, It seems to me like through this its easier for me to see reality as it is and to discount the thought and also to see when i'm making situations bigger than they really are or placing value on the importance of how people respond to me as well. I'm not where I want to be yet but I finally feel like i'm truely getting there.

I am finding it challenging to integrate all the main things within the program as there are alot of great things here but I know I will.

By the way there was this video that was really powerful that I saw awhile ago and forgot about and just yesterday a friend shared it on facebook and I want to share it with you to. We talk about facing limitations and facing fears but how often do we ever see anybody do it? This video is so powerful because you actually do get to see it and you also get to see the responses from other people. Check it out and let me know what you think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1T9-I3wx8I

THH
So if we could add another part in the Program For Causing Anxiety and Depression it would go like this;
See the bad weather and let your imagination go wild with how bad its going to get...imagine the temperature dropping lower than it has ever had before and see it as if the world is going into another ice age and what if you froze in the shower and thousands of years later they found you in your birthday suit....how embarassing!!!!

On your trip to the dentist don't forget to anticipate a horrible outcome! Your gums have finally turned to jelly and all your teeth will have to be removed and replaced candy corns! Maybe then you could apply for a new job....a human pez dispenser!

Oh and make sure you think of every bad thing that could possibly happen and come up with a very unrealistic way of handling it you know because you do want to set yourself up for failure, depression and more anxiety! So when that Comet is coming towards your house you make sure you're holding an umbrella with my little pony on it!

Thank you! It was a big moment as that thinking has been so detrimental and now it seems like i've found a layer deeper than that underneath which is very good, i've moved pasted where I was now. This has been an enourmous victory for me!

By the way what is your way of feeling your anxiety and letting it dilute?

Oh and i'm glad those examples were helpful and that you are feeling good. Which is alot different from when I was happy that you realized you were depressed :P

ForeverYoung
I'm glad you found it funny too....that scene was just really scary! Stuff like that normally will scare the crap out of me and then I scare myself by imagining me being like that or seeing someone I know like that and it feels so real and yet its not and is very very very unlikely that this would happen but when I get stuck in that way of thinking, I really cannot see the diffrence but I saw it and immediately I thought of the humor stuff and did it and it helped me to break free of that downward spiral instead of chasing it down like I normally would.

I know the feeling and I think I had the same reaction with Mrs Doubtfire....I think because we are so sensitive, we imagine exactly what it would feel like if we were in that situation. I do that alot and it can make funny things scary but it also has the opportunity to have the opposite effect and make us feel empowered and loved when the character in the movie receives that.

Oh and great job for identifying the thoughts and good try for replacing them and before I respond to what I think and what I would add, I first have to ask you how does your responses make you feel to those negative statements? I mean does your replacement thought make you feel better? does it make you feel at least a tiny bit better?

As for the facing of the limitations, I suggest against taking on your driving and elevator stuff right now. I believe things happen for a reason and the fact that the whether conditions are not good for you to face this limitation is a good indicator to me that it is not time for you to do it yet. Facing the worst ones off the bat could in fact be setting yourself up for failure. If I faced my worst fear right now (doing an improv show), I would probabbly crap my pants and it would be way too overwhelming for me to even get up to do it and thus I wouldn't do it and likely i'd be beating myself up telling myself that i'm not good enough and that I'll never get better and it would make it harder to try again.

You have 2 other smaller ones that would be better to try to tackle....and by limitation that is really just anything that causes anxiety, it doesn't have to be things that you have avoided doing....anything that produces anxiety is a limitation. The video is a great example! and the cleaning and organizing is another although the video would likely be easier. You know you can get through watching the video because you have before and yet it does cause anxiety so it works well. When you do get to that point in the movie where you get anxious, then just pause the video, grab your notepad and just write down anything that comes to your mind and then from what you've written, pick out the negative thoughts and then try to replace them. Post them on here and then we can help you out and through this, you may come to find that you don't feel so much like you're falling behind or are unsatisfied with your efforts (That being said, I still want to go through the negative thoughts that you have posted right now, after you respond the question I had posed).


Mike

forever young 06
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Re: Empowering Group Program Run-through part10

Post by forever young 06 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:39 am

I did feel better after I wrote the positive response. I can get better if I work at it. you are right I shouldn't work on the worst. I keep thinking I don't have any more but I feel I am covering them up with the worst. I know the organizing is one. I will work on that and see If more will surface. thanks mike for your input

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