You know, I've been doing this program for about 6 years and still i would not say that i have recovered yet. I've made alot of progress and I can face many of my limitations but still there is something holding me back...and that would be my sleep.
Did you know that sleep deprivation can make it difficult to understand what other people are saying? Or that it can create an intolerance to general activity? Or when it comes to problem solving it can put you into ridgit patterns that make it difficult to generate new problem solving ideas? How about how it creates slow word recall? Get this, it also gives you a foggy feeling making it difficult to committ to memory, facts, faces, lessons or even conversations. This is on top of the basic knowledge of how it decreases immune system, decreases energy, cognitive functioning, concentration...etc.
For the last 15-16 years I have not been able to sleep properly and I believe that I keep reaching a plateau when it comes to my recovery. The time after everybody else went to sleep was the only time i felt safe while i was in highschool. I would stay up anywhere from 12am to 4am just feeling safe but having to wake up at 7am and i did this every day. This did not stop in highschool and it kept going and still is really. I do however remember a couple incidents when i was able to think clearer and visualize things better (remember visualization is a cognitive function too) and those times were the times i was getting good sleep.
The first time I had nothing to do and i just finished working a seasonal job. I was living at a friend's house and I just went to bed at like 9:30 and I felt really amazing for a 2 week period until i got a job and went back to the old sleep patterns. But I felt so alert and no dizziness or lightheadedness, I felt in control of my thoughts, ideas, my behaviors, my ability to understand people...I can honestly say that during that 2 week period i did not have any anxiety at all. Unfortunately i had no other coping skills when i got that job and so i slipped back.
The 2nd time It was starting to get there when i was staying at a hospital where they had a mood and behavior program. I didn't fully overcome it as I was constantly having the stress of having to find a place to move into but I was becoming less dizzy, lightheaded, spacy and incoherant.
So my goal is to get to bed at 10:30-11 on a daily basis.
I know that stressing over sleep is actually counter productive and it is not my intention to create more worry for people and that depression can lead to insomnia which can lead to more depression and more insomnia and I really believe this is why it is suggested in the program to use the relaxation cd just before going to bed. I just wanted to stress that and I will keep you all informed on my progress.
Mike
Anxiety, Depression & Sleep
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NinjaFrodo
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Here is the link to the Letting Go thread which is designated for venting
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087
You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog
http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/
http://forum.stresscenter.com/viewtopic ... 52&t=25087
You can follow me on Twitter, same username or check out my blog
http://ninjafrodo.blogspot.com/
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Guest
hi Mike,
thanks for your post. i've dealt with the same issue for years (the feeling safe only late at nite when no one is around). there's a definite sense that all is better when i'm alone and the rest of the world is sleeping. it's like my mind works more clearly at those hours. i deliberately stay up way too late and it ends up making my next day even harder to deal with. i used to joke/rationalize that if i stay up all nite then it would be just one long day and i wouldn't have to deal with a new day.
another part of it is that i do not want to deal with the insomnia so if i wait to go to sleep only when i'm exhausted or just pass out on the couch, then i won't have to lay in bed with all the thoughts running thru my mind.
i'm determined to get to sleep earlier just so i can deal with a new day refreshed. i've been trying to exercise a lot more during the day but it seems like that only works for a couple of days before i can stay up late again.
anyhow, thanks for your post. it's good to know others are dealing with the same issues.
good luck and be well.
John
thanks for your post. i've dealt with the same issue for years (the feeling safe only late at nite when no one is around). there's a definite sense that all is better when i'm alone and the rest of the world is sleeping. it's like my mind works more clearly at those hours. i deliberately stay up way too late and it ends up making my next day even harder to deal with. i used to joke/rationalize that if i stay up all nite then it would be just one long day and i wouldn't have to deal with a new day.
another part of it is that i do not want to deal with the insomnia so if i wait to go to sleep only when i'm exhausted or just pass out on the couch, then i won't have to lay in bed with all the thoughts running thru my mind.
i'm determined to get to sleep earlier just so i can deal with a new day refreshed. i've been trying to exercise a lot more during the day but it seems like that only works for a couple of days before i can stay up late again.
anyhow, thanks for your post. it's good to know others are dealing with the same issues.
good luck and be well.
John
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Guest
Thank you for the reply. Yeah it definately does feel better when you know you aren't the only one. There are so many thought distortions involved around the time i'd like to get to sleep. Some thoughts are "I'll feel safe if i stay up later" or "This will be good for me" Or "This is the only time i can relax" "I won't be able to have a social life" and that really doesn't help out.
I've missed out on so many opportunities, relationships, positive emotions, social events and all because of this coping mechanism. Sure it feels good to stay up but it costs alot more. I have actually decided to make 2 lists to help me out. I researched to find the symptoms of sleep deprivation and also the benefits of good sleep and put them on the same page in an attempt to motivate myself. Also planning some journaling before bed and some thought replacement too. Also for the last 30-1hour i'm going to listen to relaxation music on my bed as well as the relaxation cd.
Really it has felt like one long 16 year day with naps in between. Its a really crappy feeling and actually keeping people awake is used as a torture technique. I read that somewhere online, we are really torturing ourselves if you think about it.
Mike
I've missed out on so many opportunities, relationships, positive emotions, social events and all because of this coping mechanism. Sure it feels good to stay up but it costs alot more. I have actually decided to make 2 lists to help me out. I researched to find the symptoms of sleep deprivation and also the benefits of good sleep and put them on the same page in an attempt to motivate myself. Also planning some journaling before bed and some thought replacement too. Also for the last 30-1hour i'm going to listen to relaxation music on my bed as well as the relaxation cd.
Really it has felt like one long 16 year day with naps in between. Its a really crappy feeling and actually keeping people awake is used as a torture technique. I read that somewhere online, we are really torturing ourselves if you think about it.
Mike
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Guest
ok day 1,
I stopped playing my online game and its about 9:16 now..thinking of watching an episode of criminal minds and then off to bed at 10...mostly cuz i'm really exhausted today but then i'm planning to listen to relaxation cd and then relaxation music for a bit. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.
Mike
I stopped playing my online game and its about 9:16 now..thinking of watching an episode of criminal minds and then off to bed at 10...mostly cuz i'm really exhausted today but then i'm planning to listen to relaxation cd and then relaxation music for a bit. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.
Mike
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Guest
Hey Mike!
I hope you're reading this after a long, restful sleep.
I too have had a terrible time with my sleep and sleeping patterns for the last 15 years or so. Everything you've said about sleep deprivation is true and I experience most of it every day. I often wonder if my anxiety is creating my sleeping problems or if the sleeping problems are creating my anxiety. There is certainly some sort of relationship.
For me, I find that I my body wants to sleep during the day. I'm sure part of it is an avoidance behavior. That is, if I'm sleeping, then I don't have to do the things that I'm anxious about doing. I also notice that when it's time for me to go to bed at night, I tend to not want to sleep. I almost am avoiding going to the bedroom. I would rather sleep out on the couch in the living room than go to bed. It appears to be another avoidance behavior but certainly one that doesn't make any sense.
It amazes me the thing that we do to ourselves. We all know sleep is good and that regular sleep will help us function better but yet we either unconsciously or consciously are sabotaging ourselves. I know I'd rather be in bed right now getting a good night's sleep for tomorrow, but instead I'm up and on the computer. Even if I were in bed, I'd just be lying awake with thoughts racing through my head. I suppose part of my avoidance is that I don't want to be lying awake for hours trying to sleep and worrying about tomorrow.
The one thing that has helped a bit for me is to move my whole day back a few hours. My work allows me some flexibility in my hours so I was able to move my day back from starting at 7AM to starting at 9:30 AM instead. This helped me out for a while and I was starting to fall into a more healthy sleep pattern but it seems like my body is reverting to old habits again - just at a later time. More self-sabotage? Perhaps.
Jamie
I hope you're reading this after a long, restful sleep.
I too have had a terrible time with my sleep and sleeping patterns for the last 15 years or so. Everything you've said about sleep deprivation is true and I experience most of it every day. I often wonder if my anxiety is creating my sleeping problems or if the sleeping problems are creating my anxiety. There is certainly some sort of relationship.
For me, I find that I my body wants to sleep during the day. I'm sure part of it is an avoidance behavior. That is, if I'm sleeping, then I don't have to do the things that I'm anxious about doing. I also notice that when it's time for me to go to bed at night, I tend to not want to sleep. I almost am avoiding going to the bedroom. I would rather sleep out on the couch in the living room than go to bed. It appears to be another avoidance behavior but certainly one that doesn't make any sense.
It amazes me the thing that we do to ourselves. We all know sleep is good and that regular sleep will help us function better but yet we either unconsciously or consciously are sabotaging ourselves. I know I'd rather be in bed right now getting a good night's sleep for tomorrow, but instead I'm up and on the computer. Even if I were in bed, I'd just be lying awake with thoughts racing through my head. I suppose part of my avoidance is that I don't want to be lying awake for hours trying to sleep and worrying about tomorrow.
The one thing that has helped a bit for me is to move my whole day back a few hours. My work allows me some flexibility in my hours so I was able to move my day back from starting at 7AM to starting at 9:30 AM instead. This helped me out for a while and I was starting to fall into a more healthy sleep pattern but it seems like my body is reverting to old habits again - just at a later time. More self-sabotage? Perhaps.
Jamie
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Guest
its a coping mechanism, staying up i mean well at least for myself. It really was the strongest coping mechanism that i used to survive my teenage life and it just carried on forward to now. I really think that the anxiety for me was the start of the sleep problems but then the sleep problems created more anxiety and the cycle was born.
Your sleeping on the couch would make sense on some level. I'm wondering if there is so much anxiety associated with bed or even your bedroom that you don't want to be in there.
We do these crazy things because we are telling ourself that we're going to get more pleasure out of doing whatever it is. We might also ignore the negative effects. I have that thought too that I'd only be lying there with racing thoughts but we have to just work through those thoughts and calm ourselves down in any way we can. This is why i have to use the relaxation music. If you have some things that are very important and need to get done, write out what you can do tomorrow on paper so you can put yourself at ease. Also if there are some really obsessive thoughts then write those down and then write down a humorus twisted thought to replace that and read it a few times before going to bed.
We can do this, it is possible.
Mike
Your sleeping on the couch would make sense on some level. I'm wondering if there is so much anxiety associated with bed or even your bedroom that you don't want to be in there.
We do these crazy things because we are telling ourself that we're going to get more pleasure out of doing whatever it is. We might also ignore the negative effects. I have that thought too that I'd only be lying there with racing thoughts but we have to just work through those thoughts and calm ourselves down in any way we can. This is why i have to use the relaxation music. If you have some things that are very important and need to get done, write out what you can do tomorrow on paper so you can put yourself at ease. Also if there are some really obsessive thoughts then write those down and then write down a humorus twisted thought to replace that and read it a few times before going to bed.
We can do this, it is possible.
Mike
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Guest
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Guest
Day 2
didn't go so well. I decided to go to my friend's place for Wii and alcohol. I only wanted to stay until like 10pm but people were just starting to get there around that time and so i stayed...and stayed and stayed...We all wound up leaving at around 4:30am! I feel very crappy today and only got about 5 hours sleep. I feel more spacy, slow and anxious but I'm not giving up. I need to be even more strict with myself for the next little while and so I am going to avoid going out to these late night events...just until i get a good sleep schedual going and I can afford to mess up one day in a week but that isn't going to happen even within 2 weeks. I'm not giving up!
Mike
didn't go so well. I decided to go to my friend's place for Wii and alcohol. I only wanted to stay until like 10pm but people were just starting to get there around that time and so i stayed...and stayed and stayed...We all wound up leaving at around 4:30am! I feel very crappy today and only got about 5 hours sleep. I feel more spacy, slow and anxious but I'm not giving up. I need to be even more strict with myself for the next little while and so I am going to avoid going out to these late night events...just until i get a good sleep schedual going and I can afford to mess up one day in a week but that isn't going to happen even within 2 weeks. I'm not giving up!
Mike
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Guest
Day 3
That was alright i stopped being on the comp at 10 in which i went to write through some thoughts and journal and then listen to relaxation music. During the day I worked out at the gym doing some cardio as well as walking to and from the gym (2 hours in total). Still pretty exhausted though.
Mike
That was alright i stopped being on the comp at 10 in which i went to write through some thoughts and journal and then listen to relaxation music. During the day I worked out at the gym doing some cardio as well as walking to and from the gym (2 hours in total). Still pretty exhausted though.
Mike
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Guest
Day 4
Stayed over at my friends place...walked there (about 1.5 hours) but didn't get to the gym like i wanted to. I just felt too tired for the gym. I made the mistake of having 2nd's of dinner after 9:30 and then a really sugary popsicle. I didn't get to bed until midnight and did i ever feel discouraged. I think I might need to avoid overnight visits for awhile, I gatta be more strict with myself. I am not going to let another year go by of this anxiety and depression garbage.
Mike
Stayed over at my friends place...walked there (about 1.5 hours) but didn't get to the gym like i wanted to. I just felt too tired for the gym. I made the mistake of having 2nd's of dinner after 9:30 and then a really sugary popsicle. I didn't get to bed until midnight and did i ever feel discouraged. I think I might need to avoid overnight visits for awhile, I gatta be more strict with myself. I am not going to let another year go by of this anxiety and depression garbage.
Mike