Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

The spiritual response to anxiety and depression
LyndaLu
Posts: 794
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:43 pm

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by LyndaLu » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:54 pm

One day, recently, I was saying the same thing to myself "Why is God punishing me",
"I am not a bad person". I have to agree with something that someone said here.
They said that God is not punishing me, but that I am punishing myself. I am putting
myself through all this anxiety and depression.

I also know that I am not a bad person, but sometimes I feel that I must be a bad person
because of all of the bad things that have happened to me over the last few years.
All these "bad" things wouldn't happen to a "good" person, would they?

Hoping to understand all this God stuff someday, as I am wanting Him back in my life.
I am not looking for religion to save me from anything, just to help me to help myself.
Maybe to help strengthen me, to make me a little stronger?

I need all the help I can get ! Can a person work on the program and CBT and
TEA forms and meditation and still add God into that mix comfortably. Can they
all walk hand in hand to assist me in my recovery?

Lynda

GIL
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:28 am

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by GIL » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:31 am

LyndaLu wrote:I need all the help I can get! Can a person work on the program and CBT and
TEA forms and meditation and still add God into that mix comfortably. Can they
all walk hand in hand to assist me in my recovery?

Lynda

Hi Lynda,

If you are thinking in terms of "adding God into the mix" then you are missing the whole point of who God is. God is life itself and has everything to do with creating it and sustaining it. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life."--John 14:6. I say this not to be critical of you but to share with a loving concern for the understanding of the wonders of God. Anything apart from God is just about sin and selfishness. There may be momentary pleasure in sin but God is the real thing that is everlasting…life eternal. You cannot trust in anything else apart from God. This is why it is so important to know the truth of the Bible. You will be more readily able to discern what is proper and best to incorporate into your life—such as what programs and techniques used to better yourself. Everything you do should be in line with the Scriptures and developing a growing relationship with God by knowing who He is and not just knowing “about” who He is. In reference to knowing God, Jesus said, in speaking of and to God the Father, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”—John 17:3.

We cannot just add God to things or compartmentalize a spiritual aspect of who we are. God should be our all and everything. Jesus has to be the firm foundation on which we build on. Jesus said, “Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”—Luke 6:47-49.

I can recall going through an alcohol rehabilitation program many moons ago. The main thrust of the group sessions seemed to be based on the idea of you being out in the middle of the ocean on a boat that had a rock on board. If you didn’t get rid of the rock the boat was going to sink and you would drown. The idea was for you to discover what your rock was and to get rid of it. Your rock, of course, was some major thing in your life that you needed to deal with and get rid of. When the six weeks were up and it was time to graduate I still had not discovered what my rock was and the counselor told me, point blank (for whatever reason) that she didn’t think that I was going to make it. In other words, I was destined to end up in the gutter, prison, or dead because of my drinking. But, as I look back, I can be thankful that I did end up finding my rock and it was a solid rock. It was, however, not a rock that I would want to throw overboard in the boat of life--that rock being Christ Jesus. The Bible mentions God as being a rock because He is a fortress, a stronghold. I discovered Jesus to be that anchor that I didn’t have before. Jesus was my answer to what life was all about. By the grace of God we can live the life He has for us and not just hear about it and give it some thought without acting upon it. “But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”—James 1:22.

The sanctified life that God has for us is symbolically represented in the holy place of the sanctuary with the three articles of furniture. I like to see them as three essentials of a healthy life—eating, breathing, and exercise. On the right side (north) as you enter into the holy place there is the table of show bread. The bread represents Jesus who is the bread of life. This is the eating for nourishment by feeding on the Word of God. In other words, reading and studying the Bible. The second item, the alter of incense, is found in the center (west) along the veil that leads to the most holy place. This represents our prayer life—the breath of the soul. It is the healthy breathing of life that we need to stay connected with God through the intercession of Christ. The third item to the left (south) as you enter is the candlestick with its seven lamps. The seven lamps represent the seven churches and the oil supplying the fuel for the lamps represents the Holy Spirit working in and through us to be a light unto the world as we live our lives and be witnesses for the glory of God. This is why I refer to this as the exercise part. It is putting into action what we receive from our feeding on the Word of God and the breathing of our soul in communion with God through prayer. We need all three of these to have a healthy and balanced Christian walk.

By God’s enabling grace we can unselfishly serve others and share the “Good News” of salvation with a lost and dying world. This in turn will keep our minds off of serving self which can lead to things like depression and anxiety. We have nothing by looking to ourselves while we have everything by looking to God. “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”—John 1:29. When the heart is cleansed from sin, Christ is placed on the throne that self-indulgence and love of earthly treasure once occupied. The image of Christ is seen in the expression of the countenance. The work of sanctification is carried forward in the soul. Self-righteousness is banished. There is seen the putting on of the new man, which after Christ is created in righteousness and true holiness.

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus” needs to be at the center of any Cognitive Behavior Therapy. God has bought us, and He claims a throne in each heart. Our minds and bodies must be subordinated to Him, and the natural habits and appetites must be made subservient to the higher wants of the soul. But we can place no dependence upon ourselves in this work. We cannot with safety follow our own guidance. The Holy Spirit must renew and sanctify us. In God’s service there must be no halfway work. The upward progress of the soul indicates that Jesus bears rule in the heart. That heart through which He diffuses His peace and joy, and the blessed fruits of His love, becomes His temple and His throne. "Ye are my friends," says Christ, "if ye do whatsoever I command you."—John 15:14.

"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory even as by the Spirit of the Lord."—2 Cor. 3:18. Beholding Christ means studying His life as given in His Word. We are to dig for truth as for hidden treasure. We are to fix our eyes upon Christ. When we take Him as our personal Saviour, this gives us boldness to approach the throne of grace. By beholding we become changed, morally assimilated to the One who is perfect in character. By receiving His imputed righteousness, through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, we become like Him. The image of Christ is cherished, and it captivates the whole being.

Give to God the most precious offering that it is possible for you to make; give Him your heart.

May God bless you on your journey to new discoveries found in Him.

GIL

LyndaLu
Posts: 794
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:43 pm

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by LyndaLu » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:09 pm

GIL:
Thank you ! This is just what I was looking for !
Lynda Lu

LyndaLu
Posts: 794
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:43 pm

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by LyndaLu » Sat May 05, 2012 6:48 pm

I attended a church service for the first time in a long time on April 29th.

I grew up in the Lutheran church and so I chose a Lutheran church in my immediate area.
Before I attended, I looked up the church website on my computer, just to get a "feel" of what this
specific church was all about. I found the material online easy to read and to understand.
I even drove by the church one day just to see where it was located and what the parking lot looked like.

I decided that I was going to attend a bible study class at 9:30am, but the bible study class for
that Sunday had been canceled in lieu of some sort of meeting in the fellowship hall. I sat
through that meeting, as I had nothing else to do for an hour before the regular church service that
was scheduled at 10:30am.

I then attended the 10:30am church service. There is a part of the
service, in the beginning, where you meet and greet people in the pew next to and around you.
A couple of nice folks introduced themselves to me and I introduced myself to them. We said
good morning and they welcomed me to their church.

The actual church service was pretty
predictable, the same as I had grown up listening to. I felt like I was going through the movements
of attending the church service, but I had yet to feel anything. My voice was just not into the
songs that I sang. I was so "wooden" or like a statue. I was not feeling it, I was just there.
That was my Sunday experience.

On Wednesday I returned to the church to see a Spring Concert
given by the Lutheran Grade School children. This event took place in the fellowship hall.
This concert was 1 hour long and showcased a band, junior choir, handchimes, handbells, reed choir
and flute duet. A lot of talented kids took the stage and a lot of proud parents were amoung the crowd.

May 6th I will be going back to church again. I am going to try to attend the 8am church service
on Sunday morning and then I would like to attend bible study. I have a really old bible, one that is older
than myself, to bring along to the study. This is my church story. Wish me luck on my journey.

Lynda Lu

GIL
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:28 am

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by GIL » Tue May 08, 2012 8:51 pm

Hi Lynda,

Glad to see that you got back to attending church. My parents attended a Lutheran church when they were young children but after that they never followed through with anything. I did not grow up with any kind of religious upbringing or attend any church. I became a Christian at the age of 30. After I started to read and study the Bible I knew that I was going to be a Seventh-day Adventist before I ever stepped foot in any church.

I would encourage you to be as the Bereans and search the Scriptures daily to see for yourself what is true. Just always remember to let God's word be a lamp unto your feet, and a light unto your path and not any traditions and preconceived ideas about things. In a way, we can make the Bible say whatever we want it to, but when studied properly we can see that the Bible interprets itself. There is a place for pastors and teachers, etc., but we cannot rely on them without becoming grounded ourselves in "what saith the Lord."

You mentioned that, "I was not feeling it, I was just there." Do you think that maybe you were a little apprehensive? Did you have any particular feeling in mind as to how you wanted things to go?

It's nice to hear that you are going to "keep on keeping on" as the saying goes. Keep looking to Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith.

Thank-you for sharing your experience and God bless.

GIL

LyndaLu
Posts: 794
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:43 pm

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by LyndaLu » Wed May 09, 2012 6:19 pm

GIL:
I went to church again on May 6th. I listened to the sermon and sang the hymns. I went through the motions with
the expectation that any time I might have one of those "light bulb" moments and everything would start making sense
to me. I was expecting a miracle, some strong emotional moment where I knew that this was the place for me to be,
that I found a place for me in this world.
I was having those high expectations that the Combatting Stress and Depression Program program
warns us about. I guess I was looking for some kind of change to take place because I am thinking "this is my last hope".
Instead of enjoying the precious, present moment I was concentrating too much on what I wanted to happen, instead of
what was just happening around me. I don't know, this sounds very confusing to you I am sure. Instead of just "going
with the flow" I was anticipating an instant change in my emotional well being.
Anyway, the service was a good service and I enjoyed the hymns and the sermon. I went to the 8am service and I enjoyed that more than the 10:30am service I had attended the week before. A nice lady introduced herself to me and she was
very kind. Even the pastors wife came over to greet me. After the church service I attended a "bible class" that was
different from what I expected. The class was just the pastor talking about things. It is hard to explain. I was looking
forward to opening up my bible and reading some passages and learning something new. Maybe next Sunday the class
will be different. Everyone in the class had a bible with them so they must use them during the class at one point or
another. I met a few more folks during the "class" and I was invited out to "brunch". I had "brunch" with 7 other people.
I talked a little bit and I tried to listen and I especially tried to remember everyone's names ( which I didn't ! ). I felt
the brunch went well too because I never get out and socialize and it was a chance for me to be around other people.
Looking forward to returning to church again this Sunday to see what I can learn along the way. It has been so long
since I have had any new experiences that I really need to embrace the ones that come my way.
Thanks for your support and your advice, it is always welcomed.
Lynda Lu :)

GIL
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:28 am

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by GIL » Thu May 10, 2012 8:33 pm

Hi Lynda,

You said, "I don't know, this sounds very confusing to you I am sure." On the contrary, I understand very well what you are saying. When you spoke of finding a place for yourself in this world I thought back to when I was an alcoholic trying to figure out what life was all about. For ten years I went running to the oblivion of alcohol. Not having any kind of mental anchor point of which to even start figuring out what this world was all about, I guess I just wanted to somehow escape from it all. It may sound silly, but I was probably trying to find out what life was all about by running from it. A big part of my life was spent in bars and night clubs and I can tell you that there’s nothing to be found at the bottom of an empty whiskey glass except more emptiness.

I can recall in a sober moment looking into the starry sky one night when I was contemplating who I was and why I was here, etc. As I looked up into the deep vastness of the starry sky, I thought that maybe there was some mistake--maybe I belonged up there somewhere because I didn't seem to fit in down here on this planet. Later on, after I became a Christian, I realized that there had been some truth in what I was thinking even though I did not realize it at the time. You see, Christians are strangers and pilgrims in this world. ( See Heb 11:13.) Very soon there is going to be a new heaven and earth wherein we can dwell. Refer to 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1; Isaiah 65:17 and 66:22. However, even now, we can sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. (See Eph. 2:6.) I would recommend reading the first 3 chapters of the book of Ephesians.

The following are some quotes that shed some light on faith vs. feelings:

The Christian’s hope does not rest upon the sandy foundation of feeling. Those who act from principle will behold the glory of God beyond the shadows, and rest upon the sure word of promise. They will not be deterred from honoring God however dark the way may seem. Adversity and trial will only give them an opportunity to show the sincerity of their faith and love. When depression settles upon the soul, it is no evidence that God has changed. He is "the same yesterday, and today, and forever" (Heb. 13:8). You are sure of the favor of God when you are sensible of the beams of the Sun of Righteousness; but if the clouds sweep over your soul, you must not feel that you are forsaken. Your faith must pierce the gloom. . . . The riches of the grace of Christ must be kept before the mind. Treasure up the lessons that His love provides. Let your faith be like Job’s, that you may declare, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him" (Job 13:15). Lay hold on the promises of your heavenly Father and remember His former dealing with you and with His servants, for "all things work together for good to them that love God."

The most trying experiences in the Christian’s life may be the most blessed. The special providences of the dark hours may encourage the soul in future attacks of Satan, and equip the servant of God to stand in fiery trials. The trial of your faith is more precious than gold. You must have that abiding confidence in God that is not disturbed by the temptations and arguments of the deceiver. Take the Lord at His word. . . .

It is faith that familiarizes the soul with the existence and presence of God, and when we live with an eye single to His glory we discern more and more the beauty of His character. Our souls become strong in spiritual power, for we are breathing the atmosphere of heaven and realizing that God is at our right hand. . . . We should live as in the presence of the Infinite One.
Feeling and faith are as distinct from each other as the east is from the west. Faith is not dependent on feeling. Daily we should dedicate ourselves to God and believe that Christ understands and accepts the sacrifice, without examining ourselves to see if we have that degree of feeling that we think should correspond with our faith. Have we not the assurance that our heavenly Father is more willing to give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him in faith than parents are to give good gifts to their children? We should go forward as if to every prayer that we send to the throne of God we heard the response from the One whose promises never fail. Even when depressed by sadness, it is our privilege to make melody in our hearts to God. When we do this, the mists and clouds will be rolled back, and we will pass from the shadow and darkness into the clear sunshine of His presence.

Many pass long years in darkness and doubt because they do not feel as they desire. But feeling has nothing to do with faith. That faith which works by love and purifies the soul is not a matter of impulse. It ventures out upon the promises of God, firmly believing that what He has said, He is able also to perform. Our souls may be trained to believe, taught to rely upon the Word of God. That Word declares that "the just shall live by faith" (Romans 1:17), not by feeling.

Thanks for sharing once more and allowing me to share. It is a blessing.

GIL

LyndaLu
Posts: 794
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:43 pm

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by LyndaLu » Sat May 12, 2012 7:16 pm

GIL,
Thanks again !
Lynda :)

LyndaLu
Posts: 794
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:43 pm

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by LyndaLu » Sat May 19, 2012 4:40 pm

Sharing some bible passages today ?

Philippians 3:13

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended:but this one thing I do,
forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before.


Deuteronomy 31:8

And the Lord, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee,
he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

Romans 8:38, 39

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor powers, or things present, nor things to come.

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us
from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Psalms 37:23

The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.

Psalm 81:1

Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob.

Joshua 1:9

Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed:
for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.


I hope I typed these correctly.
Have a greet weekend and a great
Memorial Day. :)

LyndaLu
Posts: 794
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:43 pm

Re: Religious Dogma>>>God is not punishing you!

Post by LyndaLu » Sat May 19, 2012 5:10 pm

To anyone out there:
Why are there so many versions of the bible ?
The wording is so different in all of them !
What is the correct bible to learn from ?

My bible says: TRANSLATED OUT OF THE ORIGINAL TONGUES
WITH THE FORMER TRANSLATIONS DILIGENTLY COMPARED AND REVISED.
CONFORMABLE TO THE EDITION OF 1611, COMMONLY KNOWN AS
THE AUTHORIZED OR KING JAMES VERSION.

My mom has a bible that was printed up in the 1970's and it is
called "PARAPHRASED" and it is in common language and not
the King James Version.

The church I just started attending, I believe, is using a bible
called the "New International Version" ( ? ) , which is in
common language also.

How can these bibles say the same things when they were written
with different words. I know the King James Version is very difficult
to read and so the industry has come out with many other versions.
I want to purchase a new bible because the one I have is over 50 years
old and is falling apart. I am considering buying an "NIV" bible like THIS
church uses, since this is the bible that the Wisconsin Evangelical
Lutheran Synod has approved for their use in their church and their school.

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