Assertiveness practice

[Paisleegreen]

Hi Mike--Here is a comment that my Dad made to DH, my husband.

Dad on seeing DH building a new fence on the new/old house my Dad helped us get the loan for years ago. Right after we moved in the fence had fallen down. it was barely standing enough to sell the house.

My Dad to DH--"I don't know why you are building that new fence, you aren't going to be staying here to enjoy it(or use it)."

Now I never heard my father's negative comments to DH and my Dad never would talk to me, face to face to tell me that we won't be allowed to live in this house. So these were surprising and shocking comments to me who thought...that my Dad would keep a promise and that our new business was growing, I had a daycare while raising my 5 children.

We are good and moral people. Raising our children right, and working hard. All things that my father should be proud of...right?

So this is my thinking pattern and could never figure out why my father would want to move his daughter and her 5 children out of a house that fits them, is on an acre, w/ a shop for our business, etc. It was 30 year old house at the time with outdated colors etc. But perfect for us, since we had been living in his basement for 10 months after my husband lost a good job w/health insurance, good pay, etc. and the house we were in the rent went up.

So at this time my husband chose to go to college while we live in my Dad's basement and I worked at a Psych Hospital. I got this job after I had returned to college after being gone for 10 years and finished my B.S. Degree.

I had my fifth child while I worked at the hospital. So when we moved in my Dad's basement, my baby was 6 mos old. And while there DH started his own service business on a shoestring. Using my Dad's little pick up truck and my FIL (father in law) loaned us the money for business equipment.

Another thing is that my Dad did the books for our business and we took them away after we were audited and my Dad was being controlling about all aspics of the money and even was listing how we should raise our children. Listing their bedtimes, etc.

DH took the books away from him and gave them to an accountant, but not a full fledge CPA. This upset my Dad a lot, because he lost that control.
Okay, so that is the set up for the next several years with my Dad living about 6 miles away by freeway.

Me with the mindset that we are being successful, doing the right things, and working hard. So I just couldn't figure out why my Dad would harrass us weekly, pretty much, and then taking me one time to look at another house on an acre, etc.

Why would we want to take our kids out of the schools they are established in and move to a different house that wasn't as nice as the one we are in and it was on a busy road. It just didn't make any sense to me. But DH says, my Dad just wanted his money back.

[NinjaFrodo]

Ok so if I get this straight, your dad said this to your husband right after you moved in? You had got the loan from him and used it to get out of his basement and then he responded this way?

Yes that is how it usually works with a father figure being proud but it doesn't sound like you got that. I read what you wrote and it sounds like your father had some issues surrounding control and possibly even perfectionism as well. I say this because he got upset after having the books taken away and was telling you how to do many things including raising your own kids. It sounds like he was trying to tell you how to live life the "right" way. Is this correct? You didn't deserve that kind of pressure he gave you.

So am I getting the situation down properly?


Mike

[Paisleegreen]

Yes, exactly! It was weird when we lived in his basement. My eldest, a son, was 12 years old. We were exhausted from moving out of the house we rented which was 1/2 mile from my Dad's house. We were up very late moving so that other renters could move in.
My Dad thinks everyone should get up when he does and be working. Anyway, he went to where this 12 year old son slept which use to be a storage room. So of course it is going to be a wreck, we just moved in from living in a rented house since for 7 years.

He started hassling my son and it reminded me of when he would criticize my brother who was 4 years older than me and my mother would come and defend him. This brother had some mental disability, but wasn't Mentally Retarded in medical terms, but wasn't going to work as an electrical engineer either.

I started feeling weird that I was sounding like my mother and that reaction was "scary" to me. Why am I repeating this "drama" that I grew up with. More realization that this was not going to be a fun move. I had experienced a few other episodes of this type replicating reactions from my Dad that had been directed at my older sister, but now Dejavu, it was happening to me. Or directed at me.

Also, to clarify, my parents lived in a different state and decided out of 7 children that they would live their "golden Years" near me. Partly, because where I lived was the midline of where all my other siblings lived. And we lived close to a major hospital and I guess my Dad felt comfortable with my family and husband or we were an easy family member to "fix".

I was happy to have my parents move to our town to be Grandparents to my children and I really enjoyed my Dad's company more so than my Mom's.
(My mom had her own issues from her childhood, she probably needed working out).

Thank you for telling me I didn't deserve that pressure, but I (being a child/adult)thought that my Dad was "correct". I gradually took him off the pedestal I had put him on.

One other note, when they moved to my town, they brought their speedboat. Nothing fancy, but I had some young adult memories with it and family memories of waterskiing and being patient etc., not necessarily w/ this boat, but w/ another family's boat that we towed since we had a pickup w/camper and our friend's had a travel trailer. So when we went camping we towed their boat.

Anyway, I had these fond memories and thought or hoped, that my parents would give my children these fond memories as well. Not true, my Dad wanted to control us eversince he helped us out with a failing business DH bought when we were newly weds and I didn't want him buying the business. I didn't want to live in that city and we were living in my in laws basement at that time for 8 months and I wanted to move out. Instead his father helps him buy this business, that was going under in the first place.

So this is where my father came to the rescue, he paid the lawyers, long story, and held this over our heads along with me holding down jobs to pay the bank back for a "dead horse", even though our spiritual leader suggested Dh go bankrupt.

Okay, long story short, my Dad always had this over our heads to pay him back or his is going to help us. The first time I heard my mother tell me she was proud was when I was operating a shelter Home for the Mentally Ill. I had two little children and my husband was trying to learn a new career in life insurance, not his thing. But I was able to provide place to live, food, and be home with my kids and have enough money to pay for the "Dead Horse".

Which did nothing for our credit rating, just gave us a good feeling at the end of many years of paying the banks back and never owning a house. It did give us experience and we met some nice people along the way.

Okay, so with that background, we now have my parents living very close to us and so the "controlling" begins. Me always showing respect for my father suffered a lot of stress, trying to please him, save face with siblings, and raising a family the best I could.

So back to the boat issue, my parents brought the boat with them, but we stored it on our property, but we could never use it! According to my Dad, we had to be working every minute of the day and have no recreation so that we could pay my Dad back.

Then when we moved into their basement, they lived a block from DH's brother. Since we no longer lived in our own place, there wasn't room for the boat to be stored on his property, so he told my BIL(brother in law)that he could use the boat, because he was storing the boat.

Then later when we moved to our present home, on an acre, the boat went over to our place, we still never could use the boat, and it needed fixing anyway. Finally, after years of it deteriorating and my children playing in the boat. My eldest son, being mechanically inclined asked about fixing up the boat and that he could have it. My Dad agreed to this, but then my wise son thought, knowing my Dad, if he fixed and got it running, my Dad would take it back and sell it.

So my son didn't have issues w/ my Dad so he took the boat and towed it to my Dad's house and left it on his driveway. Hooray for my son.

Okay, I'm feeling anxious feelings while typing all of this. So is this what it is all about. Feeling these feelings again, but not while I'm on a stronger anti-depressant?

Does this mean that I haven't totally reconciled my feelings of "being hurt" by my Dad, siblings, friends, children and DH? Is this what this is all about? This thing called Anxiety?

[NinjaFrodo]

Paisleegreen.

Ok first off I do understand that you have been bothered by the situation with your father and I have no problem listening to what you have to say and helping you with this. You deserve to be listened to and understood however I'm feeling really overwhelmed when I see such long posts. I can easily spend 2-5 hours a day just posting and I'm trying to reduce this so it is possible to make your posts shorter and break up the information into several posts over several days? I'm not going to just dissapear all of a sudden.

Oh i can completely relate to someone expecting you to wake up at a certain time and get going with your day. That was one thing that infuriated me many days. I've had sleeping problems and wanted to sleep in on the weekend but my mother and her bf played Elvis really loud until I got up and then turned it down. I got so mad at them and now I hate Elvis because of it. Did your dad take action on his expectation like my mother and her bf did?

He definately feels like a "fixer" type of person and I think that is very common to think what we grew up with is correct and the parents are always right. We eventually get to that same point when we start to realize that these people are flawed just like everybody else.

I'm not suprised you are feeling anxious while typing because you have put so much into this post that I can tell you are reliving the situation in great detail! Yes feeling the feelings so you can work through them and yes it really does seem like you're holding onto this hurt. You have put so much passion into the post that it really shows. Someone who has let something go doesn't think so much about the negative aspects and when they do end up talking about it, its not too detailed. This is an influence of anxiety and obsessive thoughts.

Ok lets start with what you had mentioned your dad saying to DH. I'll be your husband and you be your dad;

Dad; "I don't know why you are building that new fence, you aren't going to be staying here to enjoy it or use it"

DH; What is it that gives you the impression that we aren't going to be staying here long?

[what would your dad's response be?]


Mike

[Paisleegreen]

Oh so sorry about the long post and I post another one elsewhere. Its been a long time, but I love your explanation for them and my feelings. Thanks!

My dad should have said--"Well, I'm having buyer's remorse and I could sell this house and make a profit."

Although, his bank loan was $600.00 and we paid him $1200.00 rent.

[NinjaFrodo]

THH's script.

X-What are you doing on the 5th of January? I'm going to have dinner. I want all your family to come. You know how they are?

ME-Well X its really too far off for me to know so get back to me when the time comes closer

X-See how you are?

ME-No, How am I? (inquiry)

X-You don't ever come down here. I invite you all the time

Me-There definately are many occasions you invite us to that we'd like to come but we just don't make it. (disarm)

X-I tried to call your mother, she never calls me back. Your sister always says she will call me back and never does. Thats ok I'll remember this, their time is coming

Me-They definately do forget to return many phone calls. (disarm)

X-Nobody ever cares about me. I offer to cook and no one wants to come. I told your mother I had pumpkinns all she has to do is stop and get one for free. She don't come.

Me-I agree that it might seem like nobody cares when people don't come when you invite them and that must make you feel really lonely. (disarm and emotional empathy). That was very considerate of you to offer that to her. (stroking)



Alright lets work with some diffrent responses here.

X-What are you doing on the 5th of January? I'm going to have dinner. I want all your family to come. You know how they are?

Me-Well X its really too far off for me to know so get back to me when the time comes closer

X-See how you are?

ME-No, How am I? (inquiry)

X-You don't ever come down here. I invite you all the time

Me-You mean I've never shown up when you invited me?

(HOw would he respond to this?)


Mike

[Paisleegreen]

Instead of Elvis playing loud, my Dad would come downstairs in the morning to wake us up. This was after DH worked late at night and went to night class at college.

[NinjaFrodo]

Paisleegreen;

That is extremely inconsiderate, rude and unacceptable for someone to go and wake you guys up especially when your husband worked late at night and had night class. Neither of you deserved this and it was because of his own irrational and unrealistic expectation.

Also I have seen your other post in the thread I asked for insults and such. I haven't gotten to reading that one yet so i'll do that later.

Dad; "I don't know why you are building that new fence, you aren't going to be staying here to enjoy it or use it"

DH; What is it that gives you the impression that we aren't going to be staying here long? [inquiry]

Dad; "Well, I'm having buyer's remorse and I could sell this house and make a profit."

DH; I feel really offended and concerned when you say you are having remorse and are considering selling the house to make a profit. You sound like you are upset about us living in the house. Is this correct? [I feel,emotional empathy]


(that one seems to be really tough to respond to. Lets continue with the conversation)


Mike

[Paisleegreen]

Dad--Yes, I am worried about my wife and being able to meet all medical bills for her and for me. Since we are in our late 70s.

Note: My Dad moved from CA after selling a fixed up property, besides another home that I grew up in. My mother worked as a nurse and had a very good retirement as well as my Dad from working in computer world.

[NinjaFrodo]

Dad; Yes, I am worried about my wife and being able to meet all medical bills for her and for me. Since we are in our late 70s.

(this is a toughy and in a situation like this you may have to compremise)
DH; I understand you are in your 70s and are looking out for your future with your medical bills. They can get very expensive! Do you feel that the rent that we'll be (or that we are) paying will not be sufficient enough to cover this?


Mike