Stress Center Peer Support

Hi everyone, I am having a terrible time with this lesson and hope maybe someone can help! I get very anxious when working on the workbook. I truly feel like there are things in my life i just can't forgive, maybe someday i will feel differently but i don't know. I don't understand how i can forgive someone who is not sorry for hurting me and who has shown that in the past with forgiveness they will hurt you again. I know "forgiveness is the gift you give yourself." I know it feels so good to forgive people. But in my heart, there are just some people i think i am unable to forgive. For example four years ago i was in a relationship with a man that almost killed me. If i say i forgive him, in my heart i feel like it's a lie. What he did was wrong and nothing will ever change that. I can say i learned something from it, i've come a long way, i don't think of him much anymore but it took me years to recover physically from what he did to me and that is something i will never forget. Me forgiving him feels like i am excusing that and saying it was ok. I did forgive him the first couple times when he said he was sorry...and then proceeded to do the same thing again, and i nearly died from it. How can i forgive? I guess a little forgiving of myself to do for staying with him. My coach said in order for God to forgive our sins we have to forgive others. But growing up i was taught in church that to be forgiven you have to repent and resolve not to do the action again, so it is hard for me to comprehend forgiving someone who has even told me they aren't sorry. I grew up with an abusive mother and i felt that every time i forgave her and let her back in my life, she would behave the same way again. Maybe I am equating forgiveness with saying "oh that was ok" or letting someone who hurt me back in my life...Is it ok to say "i let this go because i dont want to hurt anymore, i will learn from this but i will never let this person back in my life again," or in my mom's case "i let this go but i still have boundaries with her and won't let her get too close to me". As i write this i wonder if what i'm also asking is what does forgiveness mean? Can it be saying, " I choose to let this go and release this person from my life. This wasn't right but i'm not goign to dwell on it anymore. I can take the positive from it." I'm so worked up over this i keep crying. I guess i'm not over my anger as much as i thought. I really am trying, and there are many things i have forgiven, but there are some that i just don't know how to. And i truly don't think i ever could. Does anyone else feel like this? Is there a difference between forgiveness and letting go?

I have a really good book called "Daily Affirmations for Forgiving & Moving On." It's by Tian Dayton, Ph.D. I found it at Barnes and Noble and it has proved to be very helpful to me. I grew up with an alcoholic drug addict mother who was too caught up in her own pain and suffering to meet any of my needs as a child. And now, at the age of 32, I am trying to go back and learn how to re-parent that scared little child and fix the damage that was done. My therapist also recommended a book by Fred Luskin called "Forgive for Good." i have yet to check that one out. It seems from the reading that I've done that forgiveness needs to be done for ourselves and not for the other person. And it doesn't mean letting someone walk all over you either. And we have to forgive ourselves, too. I hope some of this helps you. I am also struggling with forgiveness. As a defense mechanism I have held on to old pain and baggage. It's only causing me suffering, but I'm not quite there yet as far as completely letting go.

Hi MissE.

When the bible said that a person has to ask for forgiveness, repent their sins, and be truly sorry to be forgiven, the bible was talking about repenting to GOD, asking GOD for forgiveness. The people that did those horrible things to you might have asked GOD for forgiveness. It would be nice for them to ask you for forgiveness but I don't think they will. So now you have to take care of yourself by letting go of the pain of what happened to you. That's where forgiving them comes in. You are not supposed to go to them for forgiveness, you just have to decide that you don't want to be trapped in anger and hate because of them. It's all about releasing yourself of the anger that those people caused you.

I had to do it also. There were a few people I had to forgive. When I decided that I wasn't going to be angry anymore, I began to feel that weight lifted from me. I remember what happened, but I am not angry anymore. I did it for me, not them. I never told anyone that I forgave them.

You have to forgive to be forgiven. When you pray "forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us" that means that God forgives you the way you forgive others.

Just be thankful that you're physically away from these evil people, although you have not really gotten away from them. Please don't carry them around with you forever.

Take care. DeeDee.

i have had problems with forgiveness and a lot of anger. i have forginen some of the people that have heart me. and i am morking on the anger also. i do have a problem forgivening my mom for 1 thing she let a man in our house to clean it and he was there ever day. now my mom knew thet he was known for messing around with teenage girls and she let him in our house. we had a rull in our house that no doors were to be locked. well my mom knew that i was having problems with him so she told me when he was there to go in my room and lock the door. why she didnt make him leave i guess i will never know. well 1 morning i forgot to lock my door and he raped me. i still have not found a way to forgive her for that. my mom and i have a lot of issuses and i understand she did the best she could raysing us kids. but not that one time. i love my mom and have let go of most of my anger toward her. i just wish i knew why she made that one dission. be safe

Hi deerwatcher.

Had you ever asked your mother why? You probably should. That was a horrible thing that happened to you and you need to try to get some kind of answer so that you can begin to heal from that.

I wish you well. DeeDee.

Hi! I am pleased to say this is my second day. I am not sure what compelled me to focus my first group submission on this topic of forgiveness. Somehow I think it appropriate. Seems so often before any of us can are able to move forward from whatever our start points forgiveness enters in--either ourselves or another. Thank you, thanks to your posting I am now pondering what forgiveness means to me. I have not read the book suggested. I also believe that forgiveness is more for ourselves than another for as long as we harbor in our minds the pains or injustices done to us, that pain no matter who is involved, holds us back, drains us, and restricts our joy for living. I want each of us to feel more joy in our lives and welcome an opportunity to rest with this topic a while.

Hi there,
I tried to 'reply with a quote,' but it didn't work. The truth is, I guess I can't really empathize with women who keep grudges at men who break their hearts. Love is... essentially a game, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. When one loses, it's the kind of pain that you can recover from, though the deeper the love, the harder the recovery.
That may be why you can't 'forgive' this person. Could it be because you're not sure what he did was as evil from another perspective as it felt to you?
I think forgiveness usually refers to treason, betrayal, money scams, even adultery. In that case, to me what it means is admitting to a greater being that you want no more harm to the person, and hope that no one else has to go through what you did, possibly. If you can get to that state, then I think you're ready to move on. Good luck!!

This is a GREAT POST & TOPIC - an essential part to RECOVERY.

Let me tell you - I had a hard time w/ this topic - lord have mercy I did. Not only couldn't I understand it - literally, I could not figure out HOW DO I FORGIVE w/ the cumulativeness of the things I had endured. You all have read my postings on here, so I won't regurgitate them all.

When my journey to recovery fr anxiety disorder started in 2005, it started in therapy w/ a psychiatrist who specilizes in TRAUMA(there's a fancier way of phrasing it - that is my version, hahah). My emotions were a massive comingled mess & my state of anxiety disorder was extreme. I had to sort them out - by going back & facing my past. This process equated to or simulated me going thru an IMAGINARY TIME TUNNEL - going back in time & reliving each experience as though it just happened - except this time, feeling & experiencing all respective emotions I had surpressed. There was a lot of stuff, stuff that frightened me to my core. I was abused(a-z), molested, & abandoned(my father left when I was 5 & never seen again + my mother left me on the street & then in the care of a stranger). My bio-family & circumstance was the epitamy of dysfunction. Aside fr the emotional pain & fear, I was bitter angry - resentful to extreme: no, not hurt them angry - never would. Rather, I was like a PIT BULLS JAW for yrs, fr 5 yrs old till 37 yrs old when I entered therapy: I held on to all that anger/resentment - they wronged me, they hurt me, they abused me & the child I once was: I'll be damned I was gonna let them get away w/ it - I was gonna hold on to it - till they acknowledged they were wrong, what they did was wrong & they were gonna know I was wronged, hurt & I was right.

As I ventured thru these events, slowly I was able to empty out my emotional storage & had ROOM FOR THE GOOD STUFF. Now, anxiety disorder is all what it is & then some. Add to it, 30+ yrs of severe emotional surpress = I WASN'T FEELING GOOD. That "wanting to feel better" became the CATAPULT I needed desperately towards forgiveness. I allowed myself to face & feel said surpressed emotions fr the events. However, I was holding on to the anger/bitterness/resentment for yrs - many yrs - & I hurt myself for doing that - that is what bothered me & concerned me - cause I knew "gosh, I wanna recover, feel better & in order to do that - I have to LET GO & forgive - but I DON'T KNOW HOW". I reached a very important TURNING POINT in my journey.

I am gonna be honest w/ you guys - I had no clue as mentioned on forgiveness: what it meant & how. God was pointing me in that direction, giving me signs as to THIS IS THE NEXT STEP YOU NEED TO TAKE: 1 day, out of no where I turned Oprah on - & it was a SHOW ON FORGIVENESS - she had this famous minister on - GOD WAS SMACKING ME UPSIDE MY HEAD W/ MESSAGES Y'ALL, lol. @ the end of that show, I yelled & cried to God, "God, I don't know how - I know I have to - but the pain hurts so bad, what they did was wrong, they never admitted it & said sorry. Show me how - if you want me to do this, & I am WILLING, show me how." I literally fell to flr & cried in frustration - "But God, what they did was wrong & they hurt my heart".

I opened myself up to God. Now, I am not preaching religion here - I respect all of you & all faiths. I didn't know how to go about what I surmounted to this monumental & impossible task - so, I let go & let God. I asked God to show me & once I did, HE DID. See, as I believe - God ans's us, the key is ARE WE LISTENING & DO WE REALLY MEAN IT WHEN WE SAY "GOD SHOW ME HOW" & THEN ARE WE WILLING TO TAKE HIS ADVICE, ADVICE HE KNOWS IS BEST FOR US? <span class="ev_code_RED">This is gonna sound SPOOKY - but it was a DEEP & SPIRITUAL EVENT:</span> I came across the FORGIVENESS section in the program as all this was going on. I listed ALL SAID PARTIES NAMES who contributed to the events & trauma I'd endured - I made a list of names. 1 by 1, I journaled: what happened & my feelings/fears, etc. After I let it all out, GOD TOOK OVER: <span class="ev_code_RED">In what I can only best describe as like MINI FLASHES: I felt my soul & spirit go in the bodies of each person I named. I knew it was me - but in their bodies, feeling THEIR EMOTIONS & THOUGHTS - LITERALLY, NO LYING. I was witnessing their events(literally seeing things thru their eyes) - no not what they did to me. Rather - IN VERY "QUICK & INSTANTANEOUS FLASHES" - events they went thru. It was so fast & quick, like a series of event flashes if I make sense. W/ each said event/flash - I FELT WHAT THEY FELT & THOUGHT. Now, the events were to quick for me to memorize WHAT LITERALLY HAPPENED - It was just enough to know THEY DID & I felt what they did having gone thru THEIR OWN EVENTS.</span> God was not discounting what I had endured - not at all, their souls reap the responsibility of these events. Rather, God was showing me that HURTING PEOPLE DO HURTFULL THINGS - THAT HURTFUL PEOPLE HAVE ALSO BEEN HURT - THAT HURTFUL PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE ANGRY & HAVE NEVER RESOLVED THAT ANGER & DON'T KNOW HOW - THAT THOSE PEOPLE WHO HURT ME & DID ME WRONG, DON'T HAVE MY CHARACTER & STRENGTH TO "KNOW BETTER & DO BETTER".

I made my way dwn my list, saving the hardest for last, lol: my mother & father. Fr what little I know of my father, I know he came fr a good family - a loving & close knit family. My father was the ONE - of all the boys in the family THAT WAS SCHEDULED TO GO TO COLLEGE. Except, my father met my mother: a women who was so desparate to get out of the house & away fr her mother, she got preg @ 19. By the time my father was 25 yrs old, he had 3 children - was working 3 jobs to support them, his wife & wanted his kids to Catholic school(my older bro & sis). My father was so in over his head it prob wasn't funny. In addition, as the woman I am now - I know what my mother is & was like - I sure wouldn't want to be married to her. My father just up & left when I was 5. Imagine what he could have possibly been going thru @ that point in time when he left, to have: left his 3 children, his mother who he loved & adored, his 3 brothers, his extended family - leave them all, never to see them again - how hard of a choice that is to make. Must have been pretty bad for him to make such an extreme decision. MY MOTHER: I don't know a lot of her family history, I know this: her father died when she was a young girl & as a result, never had any contact w/ his family afterwards. Her relationship w/ her mother was strained & dysfunctional: getting deliberately preg @ 19 just to get out of the house SPEAKS VOLUMES don't ya think. My grandmother, mother's mom, didn't have the greatest relationship w/ her family either - don't recall my mother have gatherings w/ them. As a result, I'm sure - my grandmother was angry & bitter & hurt & insecure(an alcoholic as well). She had no real family support, experience, or guidance to pass dwn to my mother - so if she didn't have it - how could she TEACH IT / GIVE IT TO US KIDS? I remember when my grandmother died: <span class="ev_code_RED">my mother told me the story - that on her dealth bed - my grandmother apparently apologized for whatever. You know what my mother said? W/ the absolute worst VENOM in her voice - she proudly/angrily/defiantly stated she told her mother "well, its too late".</span>THAT ACTION TOWARDS HER MOTHER ON HER DEATH BED SPEAKS VOLUMES DON'T YA THINK ABOUT THE STATUS/STATE OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP? THE VENOM IN HER VOICE SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT MY MOTHER & HER INABILITY TO RESOLVE, FORGIVE, LET GO, DON'T YA THINK? THAT ANGER SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT HER UN-RESOLVED EMOTIONAL STATE, DON'T YA THINK? I don't know a lot, cause I wasn't really raised w/ them. I know their is a genetic predisposition to DEPRESSION & ANXIETY - & I am pretty darn sure, based on my recollection of my mother's actions & behavior towards us kids, she was suffering fr anxiety & depression & never got help. Another key point, worth mentioning: <span class="ev_code_RED">after my father left, my mother got stuck. She got married for all the wrong reasons, had children for all the wrong reasons: she is 1 of them women who had kids & never should have. My mother was a housewife w/ no real family support or example fr which to draw from. She had no marketable job experience either. After my father left, my mother let herself, her apt, & her kids FALL TO CRAP: she went on welfare, let her appearance go: false teeth at 35, her apt was beyond anything dirty you could imagine, her children ran amuck - w/ one being left to a stranger. How sad, that such a young woman, full of potential & opportunity, yet filled w/ such venumerous hate/anger/pain/fear & unacknoweledged & unresolved anxiety & depress - to have let herself, her kids, her apt GO- she was only 35. Sure, she is alive till this very day fr what I think - but, imagine if you will THE WOMAN YOU ARE NOW - fr the age of 31: giving up on your kids - abusing them + abandoning them, Imagine giving up on your life & dreams. That is not living, that is EXISTING.</span>Do you know what I said, when I finished w/ my mother & father? Literally, there was a very important separation. That separation = the hurt child I was & the woman I am now. I literally said to myself(pardon in advance), "oh s..t, I can't hold it against her/him/them - they didn't know better - I can't expect fr them what they didn't know or have or experience themselves".

You see, it wasn't justifying anything they did. It showed me IT WASN'T MY FAULT. It also created the SEPARATION I needed - there had to be a distinction b/w the former child victim I was - to the women I am. As the woman I was - I was in a severe state of anxiety disorder, carried around terrible anger & resentment for almost 30+ yrs & I DIDN'T WANT TO FEEL THIS WAY ANY MORE = I WANTED TO FEEL BETTER = RECOVER. The choice became mine. Carrying around such negative emotions, irrevalent to how justified they may be, was hurting me more than it helped me. In addition, carrying around or HOLDING ONTO THE ANGER & RESENTMENT(cause I just had to be right) DIDN'T CHANGE THE PAST, DIDN'T GET THEM TO WAKE UP, ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT THEY DID & APOLOGIZE. You see, people can't fix what they don't know is broken. My mother, being 1 of the parties, is so caught up in the GENERATIONAL CYCLE OF DYSFUNCTION - it is her NORM - HER REALITY. What does all this mean? lol - it means SHE DOESN'T KNOW BETTER & THEREFORE, SHE CAN'T DO BETTER. You see, the child 1 once was - was not able to understand that(emotionally & logically): all she knew(the child I once was) was that she was hurt badly & her mama & daddy didn't want her. All this being fr a CHILD'S PERSPECTIVE. It was THE ADULT LENORE - the woman I am now - to help her heal - to show her why it is best to forgive & let go.

You see MISSE - you know how you hear FORGIVENESS IS A GIFT YOU GIVE YOURSELF? Well, it is (an AHA MOMENT I HAD OVER MY KITCHEN SINK, LOL LOL LOL)It is because, in the end result - IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU: wanting to recover fr anxiety disorder, to emotionally heal fr all these events - to obtain a level of inner peace that affords you a BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE. So then, you get to a point where you ask yourself, "do I want to REMAIN RIGHT? Or, do I want to recover, feel better(emotionally, mentally, physically, & spiritually) - unburden myself w/ this HEAVY LOAD of resentment/anger I've been holding on to for yrs(imagine how much energy it takes to do that - no wonder we're cranky too much, really). In the end, I chose ME - I chose to FEEL BETTER & RECOVER. I'll tell ya, lol lol <span class="ev_code_RED">God was in heaven, shaking his head, high fiving the angels & saying ABOUT TIME", LOL</span>

I'm not saying its easy, its not. I am saying, FORGIVENESS IS THE BEST GIFT YOU CAN & WILL GIVE YOURSELF. It was an equally HARDEST/EASIEST decision I've had to make. In my case ONLY - God knows I forgave them all - I also let them go. I pray for them once in a while. In the end, I HAD TO DO WHAT WAS BEST FOR ME - MissE - not everyone's case is as extreme as mine - if you want to truly recover - forgive & unburden yourself.

I have triggers in life that bring about remembrances & the child w/in is finally healing - I'm simply(the woman I am now) showing her the way.

LENORE

WOW!!! You know God can use you and your testi- mony in a mighty way. You do not know how many lives you can affect and change through your life story. Although you have gone through so much God CAN and WILL use you to help others. Even though we go through bad things in our lives,God can use them for good. Your life story was a blessing to me.May God richly bless you! RCA

Missee,
As others on here have, I have struggled with forgiveness as well. I have been abused and mistreated, and there were perhaps times that I could have died as a child, but it's not as obvious as what you have endured from your ex-boyfriend. For me, one of the major hardships for me are people who mistreat my son who has autism or me when I am trying to take care of him. Sometimes, I believe my anger is just "righteous indignation" for my child so I definitely think there are times when anger has it's place, and Jesus did get angry so there is a place for anger. Of course you're angry because someone tried to kill you. Of course, you need to be careful in who you trust and let into your life, especially if they can kill you.

I also thought Lenore's testimony was very powerful. However, truth be told, there are contradictory scriptures listed in the Bible about forgiveness, and people just interpret those scriptures differently as well. To some people it's very simple and easy and forgiveness is the exact same thing as reconciliation. There are the statements about God not forgiving you if you don't forgive others, but there are also statements about the forgiveness being conditional based on the offending party's true repentance. The scripture from Jesus that says "If your brother sins and REPENTS, forgive him" is what comes to my mind. And then there's debate over what true repentance actually means. I mean Jesus did die for our sins, and if we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, we are assured salvation. But in order to receive forgiveness for our sins after we have been assured salvation, we must truly repent and make an effort to change as part of our repentance, not because we are going to hell, but because we love God and want to live a life worthy of what He has done for us on the cross. So you are not wrong for being confused or alone in your confusion.
Here's my confused opinion. Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. Sometimes they are if the offending party has truly repented and the relationship has a chance to be healthy for both individuals, and that may not be the exact same relationship that you had with the person before either. However, when your physical life and emotional health are in danger by reconciliation, I don't think any Christian minister in their right mind would tell you that you need to have a relationship with someone who abuses you physically or emotionally. The Christian book by Henry Cloud called "Boundaries" and "Safe People" are good books that give information regarding who and who not to have relationships with and under what circumstances. So, you can work on forgiving the abusive boyfriend, but that doesn't mean you should have a relationship with him by any means. Of course, God's desire is for your ex-boyfriend to change and not try to kill anyone again. His plan is for everyone to treat each other lovingly, but that doesn't always happen, and it it doesn't work because of the ex-boyfriend. Remember the scripture, "As far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men." This means you do what you can on your end, and you did. He almost killed you so that's not your fault. God doesn't want you to be in danger like that, and it isn't your fault.
Also, are you seeking revenge toward the boyfriend? Probably not. You have anger towards him, but I doubt you are going to try to kill him. Another Christian author that I read has stated, "Self-protection is not the same as revenge." I'm sure you are doing everything you can to protect yourself by staying away from this harmful person, and you are not seeking revenge.
Secondly, forgiveness which does not necessarily mean reconciliation takes time. Some people move through the process faster than others. Lenore mentioned the Oprah show, but I also saw an Oprah show where a pastor said that forgiveness and reconciliation aren't necessarily the same thing where a girl was able to forgive someone who murdered a family member, and she emphasized that it took a long time to reach that point. Forgiveness is a process, and I agree with you that you can't pretend to forgive someone, and that is a pet peeve of mine that I have with people who act like it's always so simple and has nothing to do with true repentance and means that you're just supposed to let the person back into your life in the exact same way. I have found that these people often don't really forgive, but just pretend to forgive, and I've seen some very passive aggressive behavior from these people that indicate that they don't truly forgive. In trying to forgive others, you're not supposed to sin and be dishonest to get out of what you perceive is another sin in unforgiveness. Doesn't make any sense at all to me.

So, you don't forgive this person right now. You're working on understanding forgiveness and what that really means. It's a process, and you are making an effort to do it. I don't believe that a loving God is going to punish you and not forgive you because your boyfriend tried to kill you. God is not on the side of the perpetrator. If He asks you to do anything, it is going to be that He asks you do what is best, and I doubt having a relationship with this person is what's best for you or even for the boyfriend who would think that it was O.K. to try to kill you. You wouldn't be helping him by entering back into that relationship either. He needs help, and he wouldn't get the help if you made him believe that his behavior was O.K. It is not your fault by any means. You've been through enough, and you are working on doing what's best.

Finally, I guess the type of forgiveness that could take place in my opinion is the one where you just give that person to God. You know that there's nothing you can do on your end to change what happened in the past, that thinking about the person won't make that person feel sorry or your rightfully angry thoughts won't hurt the person in the form of revenge, and that focusing on that person and what they did to you too much will only hurt you because of the negative feelings it causes in you. You'll want to use the energy to focus on loving yourself and the healthy relationships in your life. You can work on trusting God to deal with the person in His way, and know you don't need to be around to see it. That person won't be your business anymore, and won't drain you. I don't think that's the same as reconciliation. I think that's taking control of your life, and not wasting your precious time and energy on the person that's already taken so much from you.

I hope something in here helps. If you are under too much pressure from your therapist to implement that therapist's form of forgiveness, then please find another. I used to go to a Christian therapist who whenever I wanted to talk about anything that had happened to me that hurt me, she would emphatically say "You need to forgive!" I don't think that talking about our past hurts in therapy means that we don't forgive, and forgiveness can take time. We have a right to express our true feelings in a healthy safe environment. God wants honest. Look at David's Psalms. Look at what he asked for toward his enemies. He expressed himself to God, and then turned his enemies over to God, and saw God come through for Him. If God wants honesty, then why does the therapist think that's wrong? Yes, if we get stuck there, that's not healthy, but I was always told I was a "dweller" from my family that abused me, but low and behold after years of therapy, I am able to focus on other issues, and release these people to God. They didn't want me to talk about their bad behaviors because they were the one's at fault. I needed to talk about the abuse, and then learn how to move on, and I did, but I had to talk about the pain first. Remember that God is a God of free will. The Holy Spirit leads you, and does not force you because He is a loving God. God's desire for us in any of our behaviors is for our motivation to be out of love and not fear. God doesn't even want us to give to others unless our motivation is from love. "Don't give grudgingly or under compulsion"etc. If this therapist is telling you that God won't forgive you if you don't automatically forgive your attacker and that you have to have a relationship with the attacker, you should probably find another therapist. I promise there are many books by Christian authors that are more compassionate about this topic than your therapist.
Take Care, God Bless You, and Good luck to you in finding the answers you need:).