Does Depression Damage our Brain?
Something to think about: the hypothalamus is continually stimulated into secreting various hormones, which then turn on the switch to the pituitary, where more secretions occur, all brought about by a negative or anxious thought. This cycle repeats over and over, and research is showing that this overactivity exhausts the adrenals, which leads to more depression. And research is showing all this activity over time might be damaging the hippocampus, which is responsible for things like memory and emotion. That means brain damage. Current research is trying to figure out if the damage is reversible. Session Three really helps me feel better, and I believe it will keep my little gray cells healthier.
Last edited by pecos on Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
there is alot of research going on into the biochemical changes in the brain from neurotransmitters such as adrenaline and serotonin, etc (there are lot more). yes, there has been some PET scans to show the changes in the size of specific organs like the hippocampus and amyglia-(both centers for emotional responses) when exposed to increased or decreased levels of certain neurotransmitters or minerals (calcium, Vit D). Also, there is evidence that memory dendrites develop shortcuts to certain "memory folders" with practice of either negative or positive thinking. Reinforcement (practice) of either one with increase the one and more importantly, decrease the other.
There is sound scientific evidence for staying alert to our thinking patterns and replacing negative thinking with positive (real) thinking. The first step is developing the awareness, to be witnesses to our own thinking patterns. journaling helps raise this awareness and helps us see patterns and recognize triggers.
thanks for allowing me to weigh in on this,
Mitzy :
There is sound scientific evidence for staying alert to our thinking patterns and replacing negative thinking with positive (real) thinking. The first step is developing the awareness, to be witnesses to our own thinking patterns. journaling helps raise this awareness and helps us see patterns and recognize triggers.
thanks for allowing me to weigh in on this,
Mitzy :
Thank you, Mitzy!!!!!!!!!!
These links are transferred over from replies I gave on another topic in a different forum.
Science study perspective on what happens when our stress and depression go on too long: <A HREF="http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... rtid=60045" TARGET=_blank>http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... d=60045</A>
And, if you can stand it after reading that study, here is another link to teach you more about that part of the brain:
<A HREF="http://www.dearshrink.com/hippocampus.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearshrink.com/hippocampus.htm</A>
Depression and the birth and death of brain cells:
<A HREF="http://www.biopsychiatry.com/newbraincell/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.biopsychiatry.com/newbraincell/</A>
These studies include over fifty years of science, the same type of science that brought you insulin for your diabetes, and antibiotics for your infections. If they spend that much time on a theory, there is a reason.
These links are transferred over from replies I gave on another topic in a different forum.
Science study perspective on what happens when our stress and depression go on too long: <A HREF="http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... rtid=60045" TARGET=_blank>http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... d=60045</A>
And, if you can stand it after reading that study, here is another link to teach you more about that part of the brain:
<A HREF="http://www.dearshrink.com/hippocampus.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearshrink.com/hippocampus.htm</A>
Depression and the birth and death of brain cells:
<A HREF="http://www.biopsychiatry.com/newbraincell/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.biopsychiatry.com/newbraincell/</A>
These studies include over fifty years of science, the same type of science that brought you insulin for your diabetes, and antibiotics for your infections. If they spend that much time on a theory, there is a reason.
Last edited by pecos on Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Pecos. It's been a while since I've been on this forum. I read a little about empty chairs at Thanksgiving. I'm very impressed with how you deal with life. You are a very capable person, in my opinion.
I do think that depression can temporarily cause brain dysfunction, memory dysfunction, and other cognitive problems, but I'm not buying anyone's argument that it is permanent. I can remember when I was in high school in 1967 that our class was told that a person's IQ did not change. That theory has since been disproven. I didn't buy what they were saying.
I think the brain has tremendous healing and rewiring capability. For a long time, if a person experienced a stroke it was believed that any brain damage was irreversible. Today we see therapies enabling people to regain speech, the ability to walk and for many of these people to take care of themselves again. All due to the brain's ability to rewire and develop new channels for different functions.
Fifteen or so years ago I can remember watching Dan Rather on the CBS news. I couldn't retain in memory what he was saying. I didn't know if it was due to depression causing cognitive impairment or if it was due to the amount of meds I was on. My guess is that it was the amount of meds I was on for the most part.
Maybe I do have some cognitive impairment since it seems like it takes me a considerable longer time to absorb a chapter out of accounting textbooks than it did when I was in college. But any tests I have taken in the last 20 years don't show it. I scored in the top 5% on state workforce (employment commission)testing about 22 years ago out of a database of over 40,000 people. Having gotten back into the workforce for a couple of years at the start of 2005, I finished at the top 3 consecutive years on exams given for income tax preparation. (In 1984 I can remember paying $200 to H.&R. Block to take a course and didn't finish it. It took me 8 hours to absorb about 12 to 16 pages, way too long for me to keep up.) My guess is that it was the amount of meds I was on in 1984 that kept me from being able to remember what I read fairly quickly.
There is research showing that if we don't challenge our cognitive abilities through reading and studying, working crossword puzzles, or some other type of mental exercises that we lose some cognitive ability. But, that loss of "elasticity" can be reversed, even in old age through getting back into the mental gym and exercising again by seeking to improve our comprehension, retention, and memory. We can develop new pathways of nuerons and electrical brain circuits to enhance and increase out ability to think, remember, and retain memory through this exercise.
Depression is biological in nature to a degree because it impacts the chemical balance in the brain, but it is also psychological. That means we can change the brain chemistry by changing thoughts and regenerate new brain cells to replace the damaged or dead cells. For whatever reason, the theory that thoughts can change brain chemistry for good or create new brain cells does not seem to be widely accepted in the medical community. That has been my experience. I'm not working again yet, but the sleep cycle is fairly normal now and I'm on 26mg of meds currently. Meds began to drop 5 years ago and still are. Still hoping to be med free. My doc seems puzzled. I honestly don't know what he is thinking and don't care. I'm not taking no for an answer. Tell me I have permanent brain damage, that I'll never be off of meds, that it's impossible, that I'm bi-polar, yada, yada, yada. You may be right, but my experience over the last 9 years says much of what was believed to be fact (that I am bi-polar, that I'll be on meds forever) is false. But, if I had believed and accepted what was said and didn't try to get better, the doctors' statements would have become a self fulfiliing destiny. We need to set our own goals, our own course, within reason and believe in ourselves no matter what. If the docs and scientists are correct, that our cognitive ability is permanently impaired, then our destiny, what we accomplish, will bear that out. I've seen too many who have disproven that theory. I'd like to be one more who does as well.
I do think that depression can temporarily cause brain dysfunction, memory dysfunction, and other cognitive problems, but I'm not buying anyone's argument that it is permanent. I can remember when I was in high school in 1967 that our class was told that a person's IQ did not change. That theory has since been disproven. I didn't buy what they were saying.
I think the brain has tremendous healing and rewiring capability. For a long time, if a person experienced a stroke it was believed that any brain damage was irreversible. Today we see therapies enabling people to regain speech, the ability to walk and for many of these people to take care of themselves again. All due to the brain's ability to rewire and develop new channels for different functions.
Fifteen or so years ago I can remember watching Dan Rather on the CBS news. I couldn't retain in memory what he was saying. I didn't know if it was due to depression causing cognitive impairment or if it was due to the amount of meds I was on. My guess is that it was the amount of meds I was on for the most part.
Maybe I do have some cognitive impairment since it seems like it takes me a considerable longer time to absorb a chapter out of accounting textbooks than it did when I was in college. But any tests I have taken in the last 20 years don't show it. I scored in the top 5% on state workforce (employment commission)testing about 22 years ago out of a database of over 40,000 people. Having gotten back into the workforce for a couple of years at the start of 2005, I finished at the top 3 consecutive years on exams given for income tax preparation. (In 1984 I can remember paying $200 to H.&R. Block to take a course and didn't finish it. It took me 8 hours to absorb about 12 to 16 pages, way too long for me to keep up.) My guess is that it was the amount of meds I was on in 1984 that kept me from being able to remember what I read fairly quickly.
There is research showing that if we don't challenge our cognitive abilities through reading and studying, working crossword puzzles, or some other type of mental exercises that we lose some cognitive ability. But, that loss of "elasticity" can be reversed, even in old age through getting back into the mental gym and exercising again by seeking to improve our comprehension, retention, and memory. We can develop new pathways of nuerons and electrical brain circuits to enhance and increase out ability to think, remember, and retain memory through this exercise.
Depression is biological in nature to a degree because it impacts the chemical balance in the brain, but it is also psychological. That means we can change the brain chemistry by changing thoughts and regenerate new brain cells to replace the damaged or dead cells. For whatever reason, the theory that thoughts can change brain chemistry for good or create new brain cells does not seem to be widely accepted in the medical community. That has been my experience. I'm not working again yet, but the sleep cycle is fairly normal now and I'm on 26mg of meds currently. Meds began to drop 5 years ago and still are. Still hoping to be med free. My doc seems puzzled. I honestly don't know what he is thinking and don't care. I'm not taking no for an answer. Tell me I have permanent brain damage, that I'll never be off of meds, that it's impossible, that I'm bi-polar, yada, yada, yada. You may be right, but my experience over the last 9 years says much of what was believed to be fact (that I am bi-polar, that I'll be on meds forever) is false. But, if I had believed and accepted what was said and didn't try to get better, the doctors' statements would have become a self fulfiliing destiny. We need to set our own goals, our own course, within reason and believe in ourselves no matter what. If the docs and scientists are correct, that our cognitive ability is permanently impaired, then our destiny, what we accomplish, will bear that out. I've seen too many who have disproven that theory. I'd like to be one more who does as well.
Life's battles don't always go to the stronger, the smarter, the faster hand; But sooner or later the person who wins is the one who thinks "I can." Author Unknown
http://dp19032k9.webs.com
http://dp19032k9.webs.com
Hey Don. Good to hear from you! I had noticed you’d stopped visiting the community, and I am glad you returned, even if only for a brief visit. I thoroughly enjoyed your arguments here. I surely do agree with you, too. I don’t know about the end results of damage caused by prolonged depression (or anxiety, stress, etc.). Researchers don’t either. I have been on the research side of depression. Many years ago, when my primary work involved carrying the rehab therapy side of an orthopedic surgery practice, I kept noticing how depressed some of my patients were when they first arrived. This is understandable since if you end up in an orthopedic rehab clinic, you’ve got some serious physical damage. But depression? I worked up a questionnaire and began including it with initial evaluations. At first I was just curious, exploring I guess, trying to understand why some patients whose injuries were far more serious were not depressed. Others, who had less afflictive injuries, were almost nonfunctional (emotionally). Within a few months I recognized (by studying the questionnaires) that those patients who had enjoyable activity in their lives were less susceptible to depression. I carried my research on to an annual conference for rehab therapists. I discussed it during a two hour workshop with about 80 therapists from around the country. We developed a nonstandard evaluation with three columns for activity rating: positive, neutral, negative. Patients who perceived their day to include more positive activities were happier. I also noticed that neutral ratings had a similar value as did negative when it came to degree of depression.
I never did do anything with the questionnaire beyond that. I was just curious. In working through my own (very severe) depression using this program, I now understand it wasn’t the activity that was positive, it was the particular person’s thinking about it. It was all in the thoughts. When I worked to change my thinking, my depression began to lift. I’m not sure when this happened -- somewhere after Session Three. So, if the lingering depression which had been dragging my life down had actually caused damage to a part of my brain, I absolutely believe I have been able to reverse that damage with my changes in thinking, behavior and overall attitude. I think of this program as gray cell rehab.
The reason I posted this thread is because I believe we can change. I absolutely believe we can affect the end results of our own biology. When I recognized that my self destructive thinking was the cause of my suffering, I poured my motivation into doing this right. Session One through Fifteen. Just like the guidebook says. And don’t forget to do ALL the homework. And journal. Journal daily, journal often. That’s what worked for me.
Rehabilitate those little gray brain cells. And, yes, Lucinda and Carolyn are telling you the truth: Session Three is the hinge. It is the pivotal point of success.
Thanks for this wonderfully thought provoking reply, Don. I can already feel my gray cells working hard just to write this. I hope you are doing well, and that your rough spots in your life path are smoothing somewhat.
I never did do anything with the questionnaire beyond that. I was just curious. In working through my own (very severe) depression using this program, I now understand it wasn’t the activity that was positive, it was the particular person’s thinking about it. It was all in the thoughts. When I worked to change my thinking, my depression began to lift. I’m not sure when this happened -- somewhere after Session Three. So, if the lingering depression which had been dragging my life down had actually caused damage to a part of my brain, I absolutely believe I have been able to reverse that damage with my changes in thinking, behavior and overall attitude. I think of this program as gray cell rehab.
The reason I posted this thread is because I believe we can change. I absolutely believe we can affect the end results of our own biology. When I recognized that my self destructive thinking was the cause of my suffering, I poured my motivation into doing this right. Session One through Fifteen. Just like the guidebook says. And don’t forget to do ALL the homework. And journal. Journal daily, journal often. That’s what worked for me.
Rehabilitate those little gray brain cells. And, yes, Lucinda and Carolyn are telling you the truth: Session Three is the hinge. It is the pivotal point of success.
Thanks for this wonderfully thought provoking reply, Don. I can already feel my gray cells working hard just to write this. I hope you are doing well, and that your rough spots in your life path are smoothing somewhat.
-
Mary Wargo
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:37 pm
I enjoyed reading over these posts and I can feel my neural synapses connecting! I have always liked learning about how the brain functions and a lot has changed since my classes in neural biology and physiology. A recent study I just read on brain imaging in people with depression did show that changes that occurred during depression were able to reverse themselves back to a normal image. I hope more
studies are done in this area.
I've always believed that how we view and perceive our activities makes all the difference in how we feel. It just makes sense to me.
studies are done in this area.
I've always believed that how we view and perceive our activities makes all the difference in how we feel. It just makes sense to me.
I believe,and have heard the same recently from a PBS special on the brain, that the brain is somewhat like other organs in the body. It can regenerate. Transplant part of a liver and it will grow to normal size. That's regeneration. When I was about 21 I lost all of the toenail on one of my bigs toes. IT grew back, regeneration. By jogging and "stamina training" called interval training [jogging shorter distances at faster speeds] new capilaries are formed in the legs to deliver more oxygen rich blood the muscles. That's regeneration. So, why wouldn't exercising our mental abilities create renewed and increased cognitive ability? Works for me [from Fred Dryer, "Hunter" police detective series from years ago].
You are such a positve influence on this forum, pecos, and you too, Mary. Hope the new year brings lots of good things for both of you.
You are such a positve influence on this forum, pecos, and you too, Mary. Hope the new year brings lots of good things for both of you.
Life's battles don't always go to the stronger, the smarter, the faster hand; But sooner or later the person who wins is the one who thinks "I can." Author Unknown
http://dp19032k9.webs.com
http://dp19032k9.webs.com
Hi, I feel as my brain has stopped working and literally feels like wood.
I was on meds but I gradually tapered off and then this chiropractor told me I have a pinched spinal nerve and that is interefering with my nervous system. I kind a feel better but my brain is still slow and weak,
i will watch a tv show or read something, but nnot much is getting through and being processed as valuable info which I can think about and analyze
its like im a robot floating around, cant make sense of anything. has my brain shrunk?
I was on meds but I gradually tapered off and then this chiropractor told me I have a pinched spinal nerve and that is interefering with my nervous system. I kind a feel better but my brain is still slow and weak,
i will watch a tv show or read something, but nnot much is getting through and being processed as valuable info which I can think about and analyze
its like im a robot floating around, cant make sense of anything. has my brain shrunk?
Hi solly:
I sure wish I had an answer for you, but I can only relay my own personal experience with how I have felt regarding how my brain is working. Also, please go to see your Primary Care Physician to tell them all that is happening to you to get the proper diagnosis and treatment. A Primary Care Physican may refer you to a Specialist Doctor that can study the matter further. I wouldn't go back to the Chiropractor, sometimes they can do more harm than good and your spine is nothing to mess around with.
I started having problems at work back in 2006 and I had no idea what was going on. I thought I was doing okay as far as my job performance because no one told me otherwise. Really, at that time in my life, I had no idea WHAT was going on, I guess.
In 2007 I had a breakdown and ended up being hospitalized and I had a 5 month Short Term
Disability leave from my job. ( Thank God I was paid 100% of my salary while I was on leave).
After having my "crash and burn" I have always
felt like part of my brain just died or went away. I went back to work but I could not perform my job at all at the level that I once could. I was assigned tasks and job duties that
were way less complicated and took less thinking. I found myself having trouble focusing, concentrating,and remembering things. I even lost the ability to spell words correctly and I used to be an excellent speller. Now I spell words the way they sound,and not the way they are really spelled.
I joked around with a co-worker one time and I said that I felt like maybe I had had a stroke or something because my memory and my ability to do problem solving at work was almost completely diminished.
Now I am unemployed, since last year, due to Workforce Reduction ( the economy sucks )and so now I have to somehow find a job. How can I find a non-stressful job that does not stress me out and cause anxiety and fear, how can I find a job that does not require any problem solving or heavy balancing tasks, how am I going to be able to follow instructions and remember them? I am 50 years old and I honestly just want a simple job that does not require a lot of complicated tasks. I don't want the panic attacks again. I don't want the stress that comes with trying to be perfect at my job again.
I am sorry to ramble on so long. I wish I could answer your question.
My family doesn't "get it" and my ex-co-worker friends don't "get it". I am not the person that I used to be before I had my breakdown and I never will be. I think I need to go to this local support group that is held once a week at a place that is close to where I live, at least then I would be talking to people who "get it".
Love yourself, you are a great person and you matter. Don't forget that. I noticed that you are new to the Peer Support Group here. Are you working on the Program? I am on Session Six. If you are on the Program, keeping working on it. Everything in the Program works to help you improve and enjoy your life to the fullest. Keep working on the Program and it will work for you. Stay in touch with us and keep writing!
Did you read all of the posts above yours? It seems like they have some great advice and websites to refer you to and that they have some great knowledge to share.
Have a great New Year and don't forget
that 2011 is gonna rock!
Lynda Lu
I sure wish I had an answer for you, but I can only relay my own personal experience with how I have felt regarding how my brain is working. Also, please go to see your Primary Care Physician to tell them all that is happening to you to get the proper diagnosis and treatment. A Primary Care Physican may refer you to a Specialist Doctor that can study the matter further. I wouldn't go back to the Chiropractor, sometimes they can do more harm than good and your spine is nothing to mess around with.
I started having problems at work back in 2006 and I had no idea what was going on. I thought I was doing okay as far as my job performance because no one told me otherwise. Really, at that time in my life, I had no idea WHAT was going on, I guess.
In 2007 I had a breakdown and ended up being hospitalized and I had a 5 month Short Term
Disability leave from my job. ( Thank God I was paid 100% of my salary while I was on leave).
After having my "crash and burn" I have always
felt like part of my brain just died or went away. I went back to work but I could not perform my job at all at the level that I once could. I was assigned tasks and job duties that
were way less complicated and took less thinking. I found myself having trouble focusing, concentrating,and remembering things. I even lost the ability to spell words correctly and I used to be an excellent speller. Now I spell words the way they sound,and not the way they are really spelled.
I joked around with a co-worker one time and I said that I felt like maybe I had had a stroke or something because my memory and my ability to do problem solving at work was almost completely diminished.
Now I am unemployed, since last year, due to Workforce Reduction ( the economy sucks )and so now I have to somehow find a job. How can I find a non-stressful job that does not stress me out and cause anxiety and fear, how can I find a job that does not require any problem solving or heavy balancing tasks, how am I going to be able to follow instructions and remember them? I am 50 years old and I honestly just want a simple job that does not require a lot of complicated tasks. I don't want the panic attacks again. I don't want the stress that comes with trying to be perfect at my job again.
I am sorry to ramble on so long. I wish I could answer your question.
My family doesn't "get it" and my ex-co-worker friends don't "get it". I am not the person that I used to be before I had my breakdown and I never will be. I think I need to go to this local support group that is held once a week at a place that is close to where I live, at least then I would be talking to people who "get it".
Love yourself, you are a great person and you matter. Don't forget that. I noticed that you are new to the Peer Support Group here. Are you working on the Program? I am on Session Six. If you are on the Program, keeping working on it. Everything in the Program works to help you improve and enjoy your life to the fullest. Keep working on the Program and it will work for you. Stay in touch with us and keep writing!
Did you read all of the posts above yours? It seems like they have some great advice and websites to refer you to and that they have some great knowledge to share.
Have a great New Year and don't forget
that 2011 is gonna rock!
Lynda Lu
Last edited by LyndaLu on Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.