Empowering Group Program Run-through part4

[Ninjafrodo2]

THH;
That is so great that you realized that! I also relate to this as well...now that I think about it there are so many behaviors that I believe I should do and alot of them are just to be "nice". Ie. I shouldn't say how I feel because it could hurt someone else's feelings and then I'd be a bad guy, I should always be polite, I should always tell the truth (That is a big one for me! You think it is reasonable but it really does get in the way especially when telling jokes and being silly and then expecting others to be just as truthful!) I'm really glad you brought that up!

And yeah I think I understand when it comes to your mother. She might have the best intentions and not mean to create anxiety or worry but when you tell her the stuff it is her own worry thinking being triggered and it just comes out onto you...you might have to keep her at a distance for certain things just for that reason because you really cannot change how she thinks but at the same time you can just share other things with her . My cousin just made a comment about people on welfare and how 95% of them are able to work and that they're using the system...well I have been on it and because of my anxiety, I was not able to...i'm on disability now but its still really similar...luckily I read it on facebook and I can't make her change her mind but I can only accept it and not talk to her about that kind of stuff and also see that she is having her own struggles and the stress from that is coming out this way.

I do get some intense emotions when I'm triggered...usually involving other people and how I struggle to feel connection and being isolated but those aren't as high as they were before and the other anxieties aren't really that bad as they were before either...I catch some of them but I think I have lost some of that awareness since lesson 2, I don't know why but oh well I know i'm still progressing. I still have troubles doing the 6 steps but I seem to be able to at least do a couple of the steps, its a start. One thing I seem to have to do is look at pictures that represent the goals I want on a daily basis and read some picture quotes (like the ones I posted) in order to stay on track...love being an inside job for instance is something I have to remind myself because its just so easy to try to get that from other people but then when I get it, I don't always feel it and it can be really disappointing when I don't!

I really love the pictures too...I have gotten much more creative then the last time we did a run through!!!! I feel really good about myself for posting them and as wierd as this might sound, I see myself as cute because I'm putting them into my posts. I'm cute!

by the way, I ended up having my turn at the dentist! They said I was due for a cleaning last week and asked if I wanted to set it up and I was like "ök". I was thinking of you while I was there. Now I don't have problems being at the dentist however I do have a bit of a problem staying in one place for awhile, especially when I have gotten less sleep which today it just happened that way, I woke up a few hours earlier than I expected and couldn't get back to sleep. I ended up being fine there and I was so relaxed in that chair...the cleaning actually hurt this time around however I just floated with it and allowed myself to feel the pain and I was peaceful despite it and everything was fine.


Mike

[forever young 06]

I seem to have gotten a little behind. took me a while to read all the post but I enjoy reading them.
THH you will get there with all your feelings. when you spoke about your mother calling it took me back to a time when my mom would call and most of the times it wasn't a good time and I would get a little grouchy with her shame on me. because she has been gone for 2 yrs and I miss her now wish I could talk to her. I remember having to keep some things from her too as she would worry and call about me like I couldn't tell her I had gone to the dr.

Coach chris some good insight on some of your child hood. I feel like I was an insecure child didn't get the love I needed I guess my mother didn't know how to love. I think that still is in me as an adult. I need to love my self and I can't change my past. Like husbands I get all my needs met I think he doesn't pay any attention to me at times. He has his own friends and I am left out. I think this came to pass as I was very agrophobic and I let him go on and do and I was left behind and now I can go some of the places not all he still takes his friends instead of me. I can't make him do for me so I need to let this go. I am my own safe person. I am talking positive self talk to my self.

I am doing my relaxtion cd every morning and I need to work on the workbook this afternoon. I want to read all I can and try to understand why I am where I am.

mike I feel like you are getting some where this time good job. you are expressing your self really well. I need to go to the dentist too and keep putting it off I am not afraid to it is just the money it is Christmas. I have a lot going on.

[THH]

It is funny how we have these expiations. Now that I am seeing these layers so to speak I do understand how one can expect to get their needs met by another person.
Mike said it perfectly with my mom and I. I know she loves me and I wish there were a way to release her from her worries and when it comes to me. I do not feel I ever got the guidance to be my own person from my family and for many years that was what I thought happened to kids when you live at home. Another misbelief. My parents were very young and they did the best they could. I am not angry at them.
Well we are learning how to deal now, and that is the most important thing. Gaining our own independence, our freedom so to speak. We can learn, and not fear.

Mike there is a fine line in telling the truth! I have trouble with that one too. It is one thing if someone ask "how you doing" (LOL.... could be a loaded question ) Or do you like the color of this shirt I have on. ( Much easier...) We will work on this. I think because she IS my mom I can tell her, but knowing everything, her reaction ect. so I need to learn to be very selective at this point. I have been using the word "Better". For me Better sounds good. But at times I can't say good. But rather than trying to explain how I feel, doing better is positive and truthful.
Oh good for you getting your teeth cleaned. Funny you mentioned the chair. I get like that too, I think it is a good point - that I do not sit for very long any place. Being stuck there is very interesting. I'm going to think more on that.
Your pictures are cute! Post on...

Forever young,
I understand with your mom, I try not to do or say anything hurtful, worrisome, as I know it is a blessing to still have her. I know I would miss her when she is gone, so I try my best to keep a good thing together but there are many ways we have never been in a healthy relationship.
I guess this too is part of being grown.
Just a tip from my doctor, don't make any medical or dental appts. till after the first of the year. It is the holidays - enjoy them. Take a break. Things will wait.
Do you drive any place at all yet? Is it the motion of the car? Or are you afraid something will happen when your in the car? I was just wondering. I have a touch of this too.
Your doing very well yourself!!! Baby steps for all of us. As long as there is something positive, going forward, growing inside, being curious we are doing good! We are healthy....

I'm going to read my book. I get behind too, but that is alright. It is nice to pick a quiet time of the day to dive into this, rather than some days it is one distraction after another then you feel anxious and start getting short. I do this and I'm working on doing it better. we have time...

[Ninjafrodo2]

I didn't think that there was enough work to do in the program so I decided to pile more on jk. I started to read a book called the language of emotions and I'm really drawn to this book! In it they talk about how all emotions are good and helpful and to honor them and how they all have their own messages and gifts to offer...its a different way to look at things, great book! I actually feel much better when I'm feeling emotions...I've heard this many times that when you are in your body and living in the present moment you feel at home...well thats what it feels for me too.

I started to read lesson 4 in the workbook and I did the evaluation, turns out it is the exact same evaluation as it is on page v. This time it seems I scored higher than I did before, I guess I was more honest this time or more aware.

I didn't read all of lesson 4 but I did get to the part where it says to list the shoulds you have for yourself and yeah I got tons of them...I am not going to put any of them down right now but I ended up getting some more insight while reading and writing this out that I wanted to share. I guess you can say this comes from my "god voice".

If you can learn to lower your expectations toa more realistic level, even partial achievement can be viewed as an achievement.

The insight I got for this was;
->Make small contrasts between where you are and where you aim for (make the distance small). Break down the goals that are big into smaller goals. Aim for the smaller goals and each time you accomplish it or even try, you can feel good. Instead of aiming to do it perfect, aim to try.

->I get upset because I'm expecting things to turn out a certain way and when I don't get what I want that is when I get upset...and its a self-esteem thing because I am telling myself I need it to be a certain way in order for me to be good, worthy and valuable. I am basing my worth on my actions.

->Set an intention before my activities...expect that I try and do my best from where I'm at in that moment, with whatever is going on and then no matter how it turns out, I'll feel good simply for trying (and yes that is a direct quote from the tapes, it came into my mind at that point)

The biggest insight was this one;
the only reason I feel that I should work harder on my skills is because I'm not feeling accomplished and thus not satisfied and I take that as me not making any improvement because I don't feel good about what I'm doing. If I make it easier to feel it by lowering my expectations then I will and it'll fuel me to try harder because I'll want to feel even better.



ForeverYoung;
thank you! I really appreciate the encouragement and it makes me feel good!

I was wondering is it possible that you don't feel good because of your expectations as to how things are suppose to go with your efforts in the program or your efforts to understand, catch thoughts and other things....perhaps you might find that you do have some recognizable negative thoughts in the form of shoulds. Ie. I should go to the dentist...its almost christmas, and its not reasonable for you to go right now but you can go when it is more affordable.

THH;
I don't think you got the proper guidance from your family because they didn't really have it in them themselves...thats where they were. I also didn't realize until now that it was a should to get that guidance from my family to be my own person until I just read what your wrote...thank you!We didn't learn it but it is now our responsibility to learn those things and give to ourselves the things that we didn't get growing up. I think maybe we tend to gravitate to co-dependant relationships in order to get those things that we missed out on from others instead of learning how to do that for ourselves.

I should always tell the truth...that is what is a problem! Perhaps the perception of that is a little off...we can tell the truth to ourselves, and we can tell some of the truth to others (like you said you are doing better instead of saying we're doing good) but we don't have to spill the whole story and say exactly everything with every single detail in order to be honest and truthful...I think that is where boundaries come into play....if you give everything then people try to take over and come up with solutions as to why they're right and why you should listen to them or they try putting their own beliefs onto your situations when they weren't asked for.


Mike

[forever young 06]

wow good reading from you guys. I learn something that helps me.

THH I can relate to not getting what we needed at home but I feel like our parents didn't know how to give us self esteem because they didn't have it to give. my mother was afraid of a lot of things too and I believe I learned a lot of it from her. like she was afraid of storms and I had that too. I blamed her for the way I was for yrs and yes we had a rocky . I finally learned to accept her as she was and realized I was responsible for my happiness. I am glad I stopped blaming her as now that she is gone I would have had a lot of guilt. also my dad died when I was 10 yrs old so I felt sorry for my self there. I feel like I have suppressed a lot of feelings and is why I can't see the way I am. I can't remember a lot from my childhood and even my adult life. It concerns me as you know you hate to lose your memory. I feel it is from not wanting to see myself and feel the way things are. I am going for a pap smear which is covered as preventive. I am going to wait on the dentist and I need to have my eyes checked too. the driving I am afraid I will have a panic attack and lose control or worse, I feel like I am afraid I will get lost. I can drive the 7 miles to town which is where my dr is and also dentist. I can do my shopping and all I need to do there. my daughter lives just 2 miles farther and I can go to her house. there was a time I couldn't do that at my worst. the meds got me better. I would love to be able to drive to other towns. I know this is what I need to work on and is my worst problem. I have been this way for yrs. I didn't have anxiety and panic as long as I stayed in safe place. The bad thing if I needed a specialist I would have to go to these towns farther away and some I can't go even with my husband driving me. I need to get over this bad.

mike I learn something from you all the time. I feel you are doing good. we all are learning so much I think we are being honest and opening up. I was having trouble thinking of my should or expectations but when I read the lesson I found one. I feel my husband should help me more around the house. He is not going to do it. I have to accept that because if I start fussing at him we get into a big argurment and I am the bad guy. I am trying to accept this as it is. I need to listen to tape 2 again like this lesson says to do.

[THH]

Read my book, and started my homework. Last time I went through I was at 50, this time 65! Like you Mike, maybe I am being more honest, or understand the questions better. The thing that keeps sticking out to me is Perfectionist and misbeliefs. It is comforting to me that I can learn to let go of this type of thinking.
The home work got a bit tougher and I did not finish. YET! LOL... Expectations of others was off the chart! OOOOPs. I did learn this very well, from my mom & others of coarse. She is tuff! LOL... She did not make me learn it, I picked it up from her thinking this was the right way to be. This was "the way" to fit in the world. Monkey see monkey do. I'm sure I added or fine tuned it to fit my life better. LOL... WRONG.
Anyway I already feel a little bit better questioning specific things and realizing another misbelief, or yea "in a perfect world". Nothing is perfect, except the creator of the universe!
I had to laugh at my old answers, What are your expectations of this program? I wrote Low. LOL...

I read this in my meditation book, I liked it so I will share:
When you can't stand criticism you learn to be a perfectionist. - Anonymous

[THH]

Mike,

->I get upset because I'm expecting things to turn out a certain way and when I don't get what I want that is when I get upset

I can relate but I have questioned myself at this point who says it is going to go my way. Are there other possibility's? I feel better because I just caught my self having a predicted/ expected outcome. If I got my way would I expect next time for the same ending? I am understanding that at best have low or no expectations. That thought alone for me frees up my mind.

I'm glad you brought up co dependent relationships. Maybe Coach Chris will help us here on describing them. Are we the co dependents or do other people co depend on us?
I'm sure it can go both ways. But I think I need more help here understanding.

Love your pictures!!!

Forever Young,
Your input and perspective is also as fun to read. I think it is the beauty of the program reading and posting.
I can't remember a lot of things either about my childhood, or even early times. SOme people say remember when you did this or that? And sometimes if they keep talking I can say yea but many times I can't!
It good you caught all that before your mom passed, I understand this principle. I try to keep on good terms with people as even if you don't agree, you can still love them. That must of been really hard to loose your dad at such a young age.
Good for you, wait till after the first of the year to get you eyes, and dental done. Maybe you will have more money in the spring.

That's great you can drive into town. Do you go daily? or just when you have to? I stay home a lot and don't have a need to drive to town. I seam to do better doing it more often though. That is awesome that you can do it esp. if you could not at one time.
It is good that you want to go to other places too, these could be goals for yourself. Take your time though but be thinking about how nice it would be to go farther. What scenery what might excite you. What new thoughts you may get or a new hobby it could inspire. I love when I can get in this frame of mind. It helps me! I also like music, so I put on some fun music and it helps me relax and not anticipate so much. Sometimes I forget all about my fear of stuff. I want to live in that world rather than my made up scary stuff. And it pushes me. Other times I just get stuck. LOL... It happens. We are learning, we'll get there. I guess it starts with a vision.

[coachchris]

Good question regarding codependency..What does it look like? There are varying degrees of dependency. Here are some signs to look for and a good link for added reading. What you find as you go through the Stress program is that it gives you the tools to begin moving toward healthier relationships. My plumb-line for growth is not making FEAR based decisions and replacing any fears with facts/faith and a baby step forward.

Fear of being alone or out of a relationship.
Feeling trapped in a bad relationship and unable to leave.
Relying too much on others opinions and not having a voice of your own.
Difficulty expressing thoughts and feelings
Difficulty setting boundaries — saying “No” or stopping abuse
Abusive language
Lack of assertiveness about your needs
Denial about a painful reality in your relationship
Denial of your feelings
Denial of your needs

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/c ... sheet.html

Melody Beattie wrote, Codependent No More. This is an excellent resource as well.

[coachchris]

Wanted to say too that if you have a specific question please PM or put it in my "Ask Coach Chris" thread. I don't get a chance to read through everything and I don't want to miss any of your questions

Continuing taking courage and floating through any adrenalin. You are safe. You have a healthy mind and a healthy body.

Coach Chris

[Ninjafrodo2]

So I went through the rest of the workbook today and I finally checked out the action assignments and yeah this stuff does seem to be a bit harder like THH said...there was even on part of the workbook questions that I couldn't even fill out because I couldn't find any answers to write for it (and usually i'm extremely good at filling that stuff out), oh well.

I wrote out many shoulds I had for myself as well as shoulds for others....I'm not going to write out all my shoulds but I will give you several;

Shoulds for myself;
I should not upset or hurt anybody on purpose or accident
I should never say anything that offends others
I should work harder on my skills
I should be more assertive
I should always tell the truth
I should never be negative around people
I shouldn't have judgemental thoughts
I should be better by the time in the program it says to face my limitations

I'd say alot of those are unrealistic...I do want to make being more a goal though

Shoulds I have for others;
People should always tell the truth
People should be understanding of me, how I feel and what i'm going through
People should be more understanding when I get stuck in my thinking and I become obsessive
People shouldn't be manipulative
People shouldn't be rude to me
People should listen better
People shouldn't be judgemental
My friends should be more encouraging and supportive with me, my struggles and my goals

Thought replacements;
1)I should not upset or hurt anybody on purpose or unintentionally
Should
->I do my best to be considerate with people but there are situations out my control and sometimes people just get hurt or take things the wrong way. If I do something wrong then I can make up for it, appologize, change my approach, forgive myself and let it go...if someone is taking it wrong then it is really up to them to deal with it in themselves, I cannot control that.

2)I should be better by the time in the program where it says to work on my limitations
Should
->I'm already working on limitations right now and even if I am not as better as I expect myself to be, I still don't have to just jump right in with those limitations, I can still break things down into smaller steps that are more manageable and easier to accomplish and work my way up over time...I have to go with my own timeline and not what someone else sets up for me.

Oh and by the way...my friend messaged me today and said that his old work is looking for someone to fill a fulltime position that this same friend said was available last year which I had turned down because of my anxiety...I think I might actually go for it this time! Hows that for working on my limitations?

ForeverYoung;
I read a bit of what you wrote to THH (sometimes I do that) and I can relate to the not remembering alot from childhood or adulthood...for me it really wasn't to do with the memory but rather to do with the fact that I wasn't really in the present and so instead of focusing on what was going on, I was focusing on either the past or the future and I missed out on alot of the details and partially buried alot of my life experience because of the pain that I didn't want to look at..the pain in those moments and the pain that was coming up in my thoughts in those moments...do you relate with that?

It also sounds like your mother was suffering from alot of anxiety herself and alot of that was passed onto you.....it would make sense though if her husband died when you were young and she had to raise you herself, that would be really hard to do, I can only imagine the expectations she tried to live up to from herself...but at the same time for you to grow up with the same kind of lacking is not easy either...were you able to separate who she was from the detrimental behaviors of hers in your mind?

And I think you're right, we are being honest, I'd like to think of it as us being more intimate and more genuine....I've never felt like this in any of the program run throughs! I actually feel like i'm more human than I've ever been before.

I'm also glad you were able to recognize at least one should...that is a negative statement, you are starting to get them and trying is the best you can do, the rest will happen on its own.


THH;
I'm glad you are making this progress especially when it comes to questioning and realizing misbeliefs and the perfectionism...i'm really curious as to what shoulds you came up with.

And I can totally understand that quote you found....when you can't stand criticism you are doing everything in your power to avoid the chance of even being criticized hence the perfectionism...if you are perfect then nobody could find a flaw in what you did and then they can't attack that...but its impossible to be perfect! And such a burden too!

The pictures are awesome and I have tons of ones with quotes on my computer...i'm also making some as well.

I really like that whole paragraph you put about other possibilities and expected outcomes...I notice alot of the time when i'm posting stuff on facebook that I'm expecting a certain person to see it and respond positively or i'm fearing that people are going to respond negatively and tell me that i'm being stupid or too emotional...usually I get neither of those outcomes How does one act without expectations? especially when it comes to others? especially when we're used to them being and acting in a certain way? people can change but they aren't as likely to.

I think codependants attract other co-dependants or they are attracted to people who seem to have everything in order and end up being unattractive to those people who they have their sights set on.


All (especially Coachchris);
I really like how Coachchris stated about the codependency...I already had an idea about how it is striving to get your needs met through someone else, ones that should come from yourself...but I didn't really see those negative things listed...I have however been in 2 relationships like that and the person who is co-dependant and needs another to fulfill their needs is really at the mercy of the other person and does become submissive out of fear of losing the other person...and it hurts tremendously when that other person leaves and i'm assuming it would be hard if they threaten to leave as well...its like going from feeling secure or somewhat secure to lacking again and emergency and yeah...aweful!


Mike