Started this on monday and just hadn't had the chance to post yet.
So its been an intresting experience this time around with expectations. I got excited for a new lesson (even though i've done this lesson like a thousand times in the last 7 years) and I just jumped right in. I am still going strong with the relaxation cd and am definately seeing the benefits. I am able to feel more connected with others when I talk to them, I am able to be in the moment a little bit more, I can accept my spacy feelings a little easier instead of freaking out while having them. I feel alot more calm overall and my anxiety and panic attacks don't last as long. Its great and I really enjoy the feeling and can't wait to see what happens with that in a few more months of using it.
So I got into the lesson cd and did the workbook and was a little confused. I do get the expectations and not having them and making goals out of the ones I want for myself but when someone is disrespectful when does that matter? When do you approach these people and talk to them? Its good to let things go but if you let some things go then the other person just continues to do them. So I'm working on figuring out a healthy balance here and I have already felt I needed to approach one situation with someone.
I had that one situation happen where I was offended by what they said and I did take it the wrong way. I think from now on before I start to take things too personally I'm going to ask what they ment by what they said or why they said that to me in the first place and then go from there instead of jumping to conclusions.
My new goals i'm working on, some of them I hadn't really thought much about and am already automatically working on them, which is cool. Others I need to do some more planning first.
I'm also still doing the thought replacement on paper and thats going pretty good. I'm more focused right now on the shoulds and my expectations and its really helping me deal with some of the bigger expectations and issues I have, especially when it comes to making eye contact, being attracted to someone and socializing. I'm definately getting where I want to be, slowly.
Mike
Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
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NinjaFrodo
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- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am
Re: Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
I visited a friend this past weekend and at first I was triggered by old feelings but because of the thought replacement as well as the 6 steps and daily relaxation I was able to overcome that. After using the 6 steps I felt alot better but it was still there but after I went to sleep I was mostly better the next day and it got better after that.
I had a few times when intense feelings came out when I visited my friend. There was another time when I walked by a bar and alot of people were right outside, drunk and having alot of fun and I felt inferior because I didn't feel like I could have fun like that because I was not clear minded and didn't feel safe but after some thought replacement the next day I did end up feeling better. It was good practice opportunities kind of like how they suggested I put myself into throught the action assignments in the workbook. I am starting to somewhat look forward to facing my anxiety and the limitations. There is still significant fear with some limitations but with smaller things I think I can handle it and I'd have to say its mainly because of the daily relaxation practice I've been doing, the 6 steps and the thought replacement. Its getting a little easier and I'm feeling a bit more confident with my abilities to handle emotions and limitations and anxiety. Its a slow process, it takes time and can be alot of work but its alot more work, alot more time and alot more hopeless by going back to how I used to live life for the rest of my life. That doesn't work for me and I refuse to do that and I'm going to continue to push forward and I'm going to get where I want to get no matter how long it takes.
Mike
I had a few times when intense feelings came out when I visited my friend. There was another time when I walked by a bar and alot of people were right outside, drunk and having alot of fun and I felt inferior because I didn't feel like I could have fun like that because I was not clear minded and didn't feel safe but after some thought replacement the next day I did end up feeling better. It was good practice opportunities kind of like how they suggested I put myself into throught the action assignments in the workbook. I am starting to somewhat look forward to facing my anxiety and the limitations. There is still significant fear with some limitations but with smaller things I think I can handle it and I'd have to say its mainly because of the daily relaxation practice I've been doing, the 6 steps and the thought replacement. Its getting a little easier and I'm feeling a bit more confident with my abilities to handle emotions and limitations and anxiety. Its a slow process, it takes time and can be alot of work but its alot more work, alot more time and alot more hopeless by going back to how I used to live life for the rest of my life. That doesn't work for me and I refuse to do that and I'm going to continue to push forward and I'm going to get where I want to get no matter how long it takes.
Mike
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NinjaFrodo
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- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am
Re: Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
Mike,
I support your efforts. It certainly sounds like you have been trying to make this work for some time now. This is my first time through the program. I am on lesson 4 this week. I spent two weeks on lesson 3 since it was so important and I am still doing the thought replacement and positive self talk and it is helpful. I was a bit surprised how helpful it really is. As for making my shoulds into plans I still have a good bit of fear at putting myself out there. I know that is the way to make this better but I still have lots of anxiety about making friends (which I need badly) and socializing. I still feel inferior, like your story about passing the bar. I have done the evaluation and scored pretty high, so I am lowering my expectations of myself especially because I'm pretty much a perfectionist (which served me well in my career) and being retired isn't exactly condusive to perfectionism.
Your post was encouraging and I too am determined to kick this, even though it is a lot of work. It's hard to monitor your thoughts and recognize the neg. ones as they go fleeting by at warp speed. But I am getting better at it. I am also determined to get off the anxiety meds. I am in the process of reducing it now and the skills and steps in the program are helping me to know the difference between real anxiety and withdrawal symptoms. I will get there, I am very determined.
Thanks for your posts,
Mark
I support your efforts. It certainly sounds like you have been trying to make this work for some time now. This is my first time through the program. I am on lesson 4 this week. I spent two weeks on lesson 3 since it was so important and I am still doing the thought replacement and positive self talk and it is helpful. I was a bit surprised how helpful it really is. As for making my shoulds into plans I still have a good bit of fear at putting myself out there. I know that is the way to make this better but I still have lots of anxiety about making friends (which I need badly) and socializing. I still feel inferior, like your story about passing the bar. I have done the evaluation and scored pretty high, so I am lowering my expectations of myself especially because I'm pretty much a perfectionist (which served me well in my career) and being retired isn't exactly condusive to perfectionism.
Your post was encouraging and I too am determined to kick this, even though it is a lot of work. It's hard to monitor your thoughts and recognize the neg. ones as they go fleeting by at warp speed. But I am getting better at it. I am also determined to get off the anxiety meds. I am in the process of reducing it now and the skills and steps in the program are helping me to know the difference between real anxiety and withdrawal symptoms. I will get there, I am very determined.
Thanks for your posts,
Mark
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NinjaFrodo
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am
Re: Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
Thank you for responding Mark.
I definately have been trying to make this work for awhile and each time I went through the program I have been able to gain something out of it but I was not at the point where I was able to really deal with the root of my problems which was the abuse I went through as a child. I started opening up to it in april then started group therapy and now I can do it and its allowed me to go through the program with alot less resistance and its helping me to get to where I want to go. Mainly one of the things that stopped me was the guilt but through group therapy I realized that I was not guilty for anything and that helped me start to feel worthy of having a good life and doing things for myself and so now i'm back to the program and doing it like I have never done it before with tons of motivation and without the self sabbotage.
Many people do like to spend more than 1 week on lesson 3 and thats alright and its also alright that you are still very anxious about making friends and such. Your only on lesson 4 and if you were expected to not be anxious by this point then they likely wouldn't have made the program 15 weeks long. You are still inferior like myself when it comes to socializing and things like my story with passing that bar but thats ok, we are still getting used to using the skills and depending on them and the relaxation as well. We are still getting used to and trusting in our abilities to calm ourselves down and it sounds like you are doing well based on how you said you were suprised how thought replacement has been helpful. I've been doing this for 7 years on and off and I still find it suprising.
With goal setting its about breaking the goal into smaller pieces and doing what you are able to do, not expecting yourself to do what is far out of your reach. I know that most of the times going through the program I was very confused about goal setting and moderation and such and it can be hard and sometimes we need help and thats alright too. You can make a plan to be more social and it can be really easy with really small steps. You could for instance spend your first week making eye contact with people, then you could make small conversation with cashier's when you go to the store, the week after maybe you could progress to making a comment to a bus driver or to someone you walk by or something and before you go and take these steps you come up with an "out" in order to excuse yourself if you absolutely have to. When they say goal set that doesn't mean one day you go from not being social to going to a party and forcing yourself to socialize with everybody there and be the life of the party. Baby steps and I think perfectionism is something we are all guilty for to some degree and through experience we can find that we don't need to reach perfection in order to feel good. If we were always perfect then we would never need to grow and then we wouldn't be able to experience that big sense of accomplishment for working on something, improving and growing and overcoming the thing we struggled so much with. If we did everything right the first time and did it perfectly then it would become very boring. Growing and Improving are fun, Perfection is stressful and boring.
Well sometimes knowing the diffrence between anxiety and withdraw symptoms isn't always so important. The thought replacement and the skills for anxiety are good for any intense emotion or feeling and yes it can be very difficult to recognize the negative ones especially when its so new to try catching them. The first few times through the program alot of mine felt very phony but I ended up after awhile getting them, it just takes practice. Instead of saying its hard to monitor your thoughts and recognize the negatives for instance you could tell yourself its challenging to monitor your thoughts and recognize the negatives but that challenge is an opportunity to move past them and become more positive and open you up to enjoy life more each time you do it.
It takes time and patience (which you are already learning) and if you continue to have that determination, you will get there. Your goal today is not to overcome the anxiety, be social or anything like that. Your goal is to practice what you're learning in order to make your life just a little bit better and the more you do that the more you will overcome the anxiety. When you know what you don't want (the anxiety and depression), there is always something you do want (to enjoy life). So lets focus on what you do want and with every effort you make, every little thing you do will bring you just a bit closer to what you do want.
Mike
I definately have been trying to make this work for awhile and each time I went through the program I have been able to gain something out of it but I was not at the point where I was able to really deal with the root of my problems which was the abuse I went through as a child. I started opening up to it in april then started group therapy and now I can do it and its allowed me to go through the program with alot less resistance and its helping me to get to where I want to go. Mainly one of the things that stopped me was the guilt but through group therapy I realized that I was not guilty for anything and that helped me start to feel worthy of having a good life and doing things for myself and so now i'm back to the program and doing it like I have never done it before with tons of motivation and without the self sabbotage.
Many people do like to spend more than 1 week on lesson 3 and thats alright and its also alright that you are still very anxious about making friends and such. Your only on lesson 4 and if you were expected to not be anxious by this point then they likely wouldn't have made the program 15 weeks long. You are still inferior like myself when it comes to socializing and things like my story with passing that bar but thats ok, we are still getting used to using the skills and depending on them and the relaxation as well. We are still getting used to and trusting in our abilities to calm ourselves down and it sounds like you are doing well based on how you said you were suprised how thought replacement has been helpful. I've been doing this for 7 years on and off and I still find it suprising.
With goal setting its about breaking the goal into smaller pieces and doing what you are able to do, not expecting yourself to do what is far out of your reach. I know that most of the times going through the program I was very confused about goal setting and moderation and such and it can be hard and sometimes we need help and thats alright too. You can make a plan to be more social and it can be really easy with really small steps. You could for instance spend your first week making eye contact with people, then you could make small conversation with cashier's when you go to the store, the week after maybe you could progress to making a comment to a bus driver or to someone you walk by or something and before you go and take these steps you come up with an "out" in order to excuse yourself if you absolutely have to. When they say goal set that doesn't mean one day you go from not being social to going to a party and forcing yourself to socialize with everybody there and be the life of the party. Baby steps and I think perfectionism is something we are all guilty for to some degree and through experience we can find that we don't need to reach perfection in order to feel good. If we were always perfect then we would never need to grow and then we wouldn't be able to experience that big sense of accomplishment for working on something, improving and growing and overcoming the thing we struggled so much with. If we did everything right the first time and did it perfectly then it would become very boring. Growing and Improving are fun, Perfection is stressful and boring.
Well sometimes knowing the diffrence between anxiety and withdraw symptoms isn't always so important. The thought replacement and the skills for anxiety are good for any intense emotion or feeling and yes it can be very difficult to recognize the negative ones especially when its so new to try catching them. The first few times through the program alot of mine felt very phony but I ended up after awhile getting them, it just takes practice. Instead of saying its hard to monitor your thoughts and recognize the negatives for instance you could tell yourself its challenging to monitor your thoughts and recognize the negatives but that challenge is an opportunity to move past them and become more positive and open you up to enjoy life more each time you do it.
It takes time and patience (which you are already learning) and if you continue to have that determination, you will get there. Your goal today is not to overcome the anxiety, be social or anything like that. Your goal is to practice what you're learning in order to make your life just a little bit better and the more you do that the more you will overcome the anxiety. When you know what you don't want (the anxiety and depression), there is always something you do want (to enjoy life). So lets focus on what you do want and with every effort you make, every little thing you do will bring you just a bit closer to what you do want.
Mike
Re: Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
Mike,
Thanks for the reply. And your advice is good, small steps. Ever seen the movie "baby steps" with Bill Murry and Richard Dryfus (sp?)? It's hilarious and about an ODC guy (Bill Murry) and his therapist (Richard). It's a good laugh at a serious topic.
I am having great luck at reducing the Klonopin as my naturopath gave me something called "Magnolia Max" to help with the withdrawal symptoms and it seems to be working well, either that or I am getting good at some of the skills, maybe some of both. I thought I was ready to reduce again but he told me to wait three weeks to let the body adjust more before reducing more.
I already say hello to clearks and especially the people at the park where I hit a tennis ball and run in the mornings. I think the aerobics has much to do with recovery too. But just today a fellow that I see almost every day when I'm running or hitting the tennis ball (he runs at the park in the am too) asked me if I was going to be there on Sat. (which I usually am) and would I like to play some tennis with him! He said he played a lot but that was 5 years ago and I countered with I'm not very good and haven't played much in 10 years (my neg. self esteem showing through). That didn't phase him and he said we would probably be well matched then. I about fell over! I agreed to play on Sat. and then thought that the universe is conspiring to help me! I was just wondering yesterday how I could be more social and make some new friends (I have moved around a lot for my career and left most of my friends behind, totally my fault but with the anxiety and depression I have not been a social animal for years, and before that I had the thought in the back of my mind that something was wrong socially). So, just as the program calls for we are supposed to put ourselves in situations that challange us a little, so this is at least a start. Baby steps. This guy appears to be very close to my age, runs about the same speed as me so I am looking at this as maybe a potential new friend. But, as lesson 4 says, no expecdtations. So I'm not, but I am concentrating on the skills and not having anticipatory anxiety about this. For me this is a bit of a large step. This is so unusual to me because before the anxiety and depression hit I was very outgoing, could talk to anyone, meet anyone new and not seem to have an issue. Well I think that is because I was not in touch with my feelings. I've been hiding them most of my life, from other as well as myself. I finally figured out why too. It's because I'm gay and 30 years ago that was a career ender big time. Therefore while hiding the gay things from all at work I hid the rest of the feelings too, burried them deep. What I didn't realize is that you can't just hide part of them, you get them all and then lose touch with yourself. This is a real learning experience for me and I will be better for it.
Thanks for your great advice and let's stay in touch (that is unless I put you off about the gay thing)
Mark
Thanks for the reply. And your advice is good, small steps. Ever seen the movie "baby steps" with Bill Murry and Richard Dryfus (sp?)? It's hilarious and about an ODC guy (Bill Murry) and his therapist (Richard). It's a good laugh at a serious topic.
I am having great luck at reducing the Klonopin as my naturopath gave me something called "Magnolia Max" to help with the withdrawal symptoms and it seems to be working well, either that or I am getting good at some of the skills, maybe some of both. I thought I was ready to reduce again but he told me to wait three weeks to let the body adjust more before reducing more.
I already say hello to clearks and especially the people at the park where I hit a tennis ball and run in the mornings. I think the aerobics has much to do with recovery too. But just today a fellow that I see almost every day when I'm running or hitting the tennis ball (he runs at the park in the am too) asked me if I was going to be there on Sat. (which I usually am) and would I like to play some tennis with him! He said he played a lot but that was 5 years ago and I countered with I'm not very good and haven't played much in 10 years (my neg. self esteem showing through). That didn't phase him and he said we would probably be well matched then. I about fell over! I agreed to play on Sat. and then thought that the universe is conspiring to help me! I was just wondering yesterday how I could be more social and make some new friends (I have moved around a lot for my career and left most of my friends behind, totally my fault but with the anxiety and depression I have not been a social animal for years, and before that I had the thought in the back of my mind that something was wrong socially). So, just as the program calls for we are supposed to put ourselves in situations that challange us a little, so this is at least a start. Baby steps. This guy appears to be very close to my age, runs about the same speed as me so I am looking at this as maybe a potential new friend. But, as lesson 4 says, no expecdtations. So I'm not, but I am concentrating on the skills and not having anticipatory anxiety about this. For me this is a bit of a large step. This is so unusual to me because before the anxiety and depression hit I was very outgoing, could talk to anyone, meet anyone new and not seem to have an issue. Well I think that is because I was not in touch with my feelings. I've been hiding them most of my life, from other as well as myself. I finally figured out why too. It's because I'm gay and 30 years ago that was a career ender big time. Therefore while hiding the gay things from all at work I hid the rest of the feelings too, burried them deep. What I didn't realize is that you can't just hide part of them, you get them all and then lose touch with yourself. This is a real learning experience for me and I will be better for it.
Thanks for your great advice and let's stay in touch (that is unless I put you off about the gay thing)
Mark
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NinjaFrodo
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am
Re: Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
Heh your the 2nd person to bring that movie up in the last 4 months. Its been awhile but ya I remember seeing it and it was really funny. The therapist was getting frustrated and just wanted the guy to go away and his patient just kept seeing that as advice. I think i gatta see that movie again to refresh my memory.
Good thing you got a naturopath, they are pretty good. Natural medicine is more supportive of the body thus little to no side effects unless you take too much of it but on the other hand it takes longer for the body to get used to it and so it makes sense that he/she would say to wait a bit longer.
I'm happy for you about the potential friend. Saying you haven't played much and that you aren't good even though it may be negative, thats ok. It likely came off more humbling than self-hating so i'm not suprised that it didn't bother him at all and its intresting how life works. I've foudn when I go through the diffrent lessons, life seems to just give me the practice opportunities that I need that associate with each lesson. Its strange but cool at the same time, makes it alot easier to imagining getting to where I want to be and feels alot less stressful to find these situations and it sounds like that happened with you too.
Lesson 4 talks about expectations yes and so don't expect him to be a friend but make it a goal instead. If it doesn't turn out the way you want it to then you'll learn from it and move on. The diffrence between expectations and goals is that expectations is like saying I deserve this or it has to happen this way and goals is saying this is what I'm working towards having and I'd say you are already doing really well with that goal.
The aerobic stuff helps out alot with healing. The endorphines help bring us back up but its a combination of everything we are doing that counts. I'm still working on increasing the ammount of time i can run at a time. So far I can only do it for 5 minutes straight on a tredmill but i'm still working on that.
And you don't have to worry about the gay thing because I'm gay too and I know exactly what you're talking about and I've come to realize several months ago about how you can't really hide that without supressing all emotions. Its just keeps trying to come up and then it becomes obsessive and its hard to think about anything else and then you start associating everything to it, to the point that you don't feel comfortable talking about anything because it might make you look "gay" at least that was how it was for me. Supress your emotions and you supress who you are and you also supress the experience of life too. It makes everything feel dead and empty and then you just go about doing things robotically mainly to impress others or to keep them happy and ignore yourself in the process.
Mike
Good thing you got a naturopath, they are pretty good. Natural medicine is more supportive of the body thus little to no side effects unless you take too much of it but on the other hand it takes longer for the body to get used to it and so it makes sense that he/she would say to wait a bit longer.
I'm happy for you about the potential friend. Saying you haven't played much and that you aren't good even though it may be negative, thats ok. It likely came off more humbling than self-hating so i'm not suprised that it didn't bother him at all and its intresting how life works. I've foudn when I go through the diffrent lessons, life seems to just give me the practice opportunities that I need that associate with each lesson. Its strange but cool at the same time, makes it alot easier to imagining getting to where I want to be and feels alot less stressful to find these situations and it sounds like that happened with you too.
Lesson 4 talks about expectations yes and so don't expect him to be a friend but make it a goal instead. If it doesn't turn out the way you want it to then you'll learn from it and move on. The diffrence between expectations and goals is that expectations is like saying I deserve this or it has to happen this way and goals is saying this is what I'm working towards having and I'd say you are already doing really well with that goal.
The aerobic stuff helps out alot with healing. The endorphines help bring us back up but its a combination of everything we are doing that counts. I'm still working on increasing the ammount of time i can run at a time. So far I can only do it for 5 minutes straight on a tredmill but i'm still working on that.
And you don't have to worry about the gay thing because I'm gay too and I know exactly what you're talking about and I've come to realize several months ago about how you can't really hide that without supressing all emotions. Its just keeps trying to come up and then it becomes obsessive and its hard to think about anything else and then you start associating everything to it, to the point that you don't feel comfortable talking about anything because it might make you look "gay" at least that was how it was for me. Supress your emotions and you supress who you are and you also supress the experience of life too. It makes everything feel dead and empty and then you just go about doing things robotically mainly to impress others or to keep them happy and ignore yourself in the process.
Mike
Re: Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
Mke,
I had a long reply written and when I went to send it the system had logged me off and I lost the message, so I will try again only shorter.
Thanks for the reply and I'm glad the gay thing isn't a problem. In fact I'm glad to find a family member on here, I think sometimes our problems are a bit unique.
The tennis thing went great. To make a long story short, I awoke with nausea and the shits and I'm sure it was because of anxiety. I almost didn't go but through self talk and lowering the expectations of myself I pushed through and went. Very glad I did, the guy was very nice and a good player (much better than I) and I had to use positive self talk to keep myself from really getting down on myself for how I was playing. But after I did that I was fine and actually had FUN, something I haven't had in quite a while. After we played he asked if I wanted to play again next Sat.. I almost fell over (thinking I wasn't much of a challange for him - my self negativity showing through again) but I gladly said yes so we're doing it again next week. And after I had no nausea or the shits. It was all anxiety. And from there it totally made my day. I felt great and I was STARVING. I went home and ate like a pig!! Then my partner and I went to the grocery where I bought twice the sushi as usual because I was STILL hungry!! What a great feeling.
We then went to get our Winnebago from the shop where they fixed what it was in for but screwed something else up, which we didn't figure out until we left. Well, I'm the mechanical one (in fact I'm a Mechanical Engineer)so it was up to me to figure it out. Which I did quite calmly and coolly and without frustrations. Robert noticed my cool demenor and commented on how great of a mood I was in and he really has noticed a difference in the last few weeks but especially Saturday. He knew I was very nervous about the tennis and that after I was so hungry, he assured me it was a realy good sign. He is very supportive. But given all that it ended up back at the shop where the service guys had left for Sat. but we talked to the manager that we bought it from and expressed our disappointment in the service dept. They had the same problem and just replaced a fuse and did not investigate further. Fuses don't just blow for no reason. So on Monday, like the program says, "I am worth standing up for", the service dept. will be hearing from me!! Calmly, coolly but in the end they will understand my expectations of them. Mechanics are paid to trouble shoot, not just replace fuses.
It's funny about the movie. Maybe the universe is trying to tell you to watch it again? Have you seen one called something like "how far down the rabbit hole". It's more science that psychology but you might find it interesting, given your screen name. Speaking of which, are you a Tolken fan? I have seen the ninjafrodo reference before but never understood it. I'm a major Tolken fan and read all the books way back in collage (including the Hobbit) and then re-read each one before the Peter Jackson films released. It was great. I did see the Ralph Bashi version way back and it's the only movie I have ever walked out on! But I was rabid for info on the new ones and even more happy that Peter Jackson, Ian McKellen, Elijah Wood, Merry or Pippin one, and a bunch of others in the film were family. For me it was icing on the cake. And like lots of others I WISH Viggo Mortensen was gay too!! All this was before the depression set in and I was hoping to take a trip to New Zeland and sleep in a Hobbit hole. Now I'll go when I get my courage back and have the ability to sleep through the night (I'm a great insomniac these days).
I'm glad you figured out about hiding your emotions. It took me a long time and a shrink to realize that you can't just hide part of your emotions. And you are right, once you start you begin to not express youself for fear that it will appear gay and before you know it you have neglected yourself and become an automoton or robot like you say. I can attest to that. So for me there is no more hiding, regardless of what others think. That's a real step for me as I was the untimate people pleaser and I wanted everyone to like me PLUS I didn't want to lose my job/career. But like Lucinda says, "60% of the people aren't going to like you no matter what you do" so I'm learning to not care what others think, but it's a hard one too. In fact I was communicating with a guy on here and he was telling me how religion has helped him in his recovery, in fact he lives fairly close to Tulsa, Ok (where I live) and he wanted to get together for coffee or something so I decided to "tell him" to be sure his religion wouldn't get in the way. Well, I never heard from him again! Go figure.
So i am glad we have something else in common because as I said I think sometimes our problems can be a bit unique.
Enough for the second writing of this message. I'd like to keep in touch, your insights are spot on and I think we have alot of the same isues.
For me this is the last day of 4 and I'm off to 5 tomorrow. Hope to hear from you soon.
Mark
I had a long reply written and when I went to send it the system had logged me off and I lost the message, so I will try again only shorter.
Thanks for the reply and I'm glad the gay thing isn't a problem. In fact I'm glad to find a family member on here, I think sometimes our problems are a bit unique.
The tennis thing went great. To make a long story short, I awoke with nausea and the shits and I'm sure it was because of anxiety. I almost didn't go but through self talk and lowering the expectations of myself I pushed through and went. Very glad I did, the guy was very nice and a good player (much better than I) and I had to use positive self talk to keep myself from really getting down on myself for how I was playing. But after I did that I was fine and actually had FUN, something I haven't had in quite a while. After we played he asked if I wanted to play again next Sat.. I almost fell over (thinking I wasn't much of a challange for him - my self negativity showing through again) but I gladly said yes so we're doing it again next week. And after I had no nausea or the shits. It was all anxiety. And from there it totally made my day. I felt great and I was STARVING. I went home and ate like a pig!! Then my partner and I went to the grocery where I bought twice the sushi as usual because I was STILL hungry!! What a great feeling.
We then went to get our Winnebago from the shop where they fixed what it was in for but screwed something else up, which we didn't figure out until we left. Well, I'm the mechanical one (in fact I'm a Mechanical Engineer)so it was up to me to figure it out. Which I did quite calmly and coolly and without frustrations. Robert noticed my cool demenor and commented on how great of a mood I was in and he really has noticed a difference in the last few weeks but especially Saturday. He knew I was very nervous about the tennis and that after I was so hungry, he assured me it was a realy good sign. He is very supportive. But given all that it ended up back at the shop where the service guys had left for Sat. but we talked to the manager that we bought it from and expressed our disappointment in the service dept. They had the same problem and just replaced a fuse and did not investigate further. Fuses don't just blow for no reason. So on Monday, like the program says, "I am worth standing up for", the service dept. will be hearing from me!! Calmly, coolly but in the end they will understand my expectations of them. Mechanics are paid to trouble shoot, not just replace fuses.
It's funny about the movie. Maybe the universe is trying to tell you to watch it again? Have you seen one called something like "how far down the rabbit hole". It's more science that psychology but you might find it interesting, given your screen name. Speaking of which, are you a Tolken fan? I have seen the ninjafrodo reference before but never understood it. I'm a major Tolken fan and read all the books way back in collage (including the Hobbit) and then re-read each one before the Peter Jackson films released. It was great. I did see the Ralph Bashi version way back and it's the only movie I have ever walked out on! But I was rabid for info on the new ones and even more happy that Peter Jackson, Ian McKellen, Elijah Wood, Merry or Pippin one, and a bunch of others in the film were family. For me it was icing on the cake. And like lots of others I WISH Viggo Mortensen was gay too!! All this was before the depression set in and I was hoping to take a trip to New Zeland and sleep in a Hobbit hole. Now I'll go when I get my courage back and have the ability to sleep through the night (I'm a great insomniac these days).
I'm glad you figured out about hiding your emotions. It took me a long time and a shrink to realize that you can't just hide part of your emotions. And you are right, once you start you begin to not express youself for fear that it will appear gay and before you know it you have neglected yourself and become an automoton or robot like you say. I can attest to that. So for me there is no more hiding, regardless of what others think. That's a real step for me as I was the untimate people pleaser and I wanted everyone to like me PLUS I didn't want to lose my job/career. But like Lucinda says, "60% of the people aren't going to like you no matter what you do" so I'm learning to not care what others think, but it's a hard one too. In fact I was communicating with a guy on here and he was telling me how religion has helped him in his recovery, in fact he lives fairly close to Tulsa, Ok (where I live) and he wanted to get together for coffee or something so I decided to "tell him" to be sure his religion wouldn't get in the way. Well, I never heard from him again! Go figure.
So i am glad we have something else in common because as I said I think sometimes our problems can be a bit unique.
Enough for the second writing of this message. I'd like to keep in touch, your insights are spot on and I think we have alot of the same isues.
For me this is the last day of 4 and I'm off to 5 tomorrow. Hope to hear from you soon.
Mark
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NinjaFrodo
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am
Re: Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
After you are done typing a message, always right click, go to select all then right click again and copy it before you submit it in order to not have to go through that frustration again. Thats how i avoid it.
Heh the gay family
I'd have to say that yes I do feel alot and have felt alot that my problems were very unique...I think thats the anxiety talking but in all reality our problems are the same as others its just the factors, memories, words and names may be diffrent, thats all.
I'm really glad you did end up going. It does feel really amazing when facing limitations huh? It was a great practice opportunity for you and you took it, thats great and you should feel proud of yourself. You realized you were feeling anxiety, you faced the anxiety, you still felt anxious but floated through it and used calming skills and you made it out alive, thats amazing! And it is really obvious that you were really anxious because of the nausea and diharrea. I know how difficult that can be, I actually remember a time when I started to work at a ski hill as a lift operator and I had those same symptoms for the first 2 weeks of working (this is before I went through the program) and it can be really brutal at times. I am not suprised that you were really hungry, you're intestines must have been really empty and plus anxiety is very draining.
Wow your on a roll. Thats really amazing how assertive you are being and only on lesson 4. You are worth standing up for and I'm glad you have such a great support. Don't let them take advantage of you and do a shoddy job.
Maybe it is a sign. When you say how far down the rabbit hole, I start to think about the movie "What the Bleep do we know", they use that analogy about how far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go. Its about emotions and how our brains make connections and how to break connections and such. It is a great movie.
Where did you see that Elijah Wood admitted to being gay? I thought he was too but didn't actually see it anywhere.
I'm also struggling with insomnia too its tough to deal with.
Its challenging to figure out about emotions and coping skills, many people aren't very insightful at all when it comes to what they do and how they handle things. I'm just glad that I figured it out and glad for the help that was given to me and the learning opportunities. I'm still struggling with hiding emotions though, especially anger because I explode and I don't want to do that. That is more of an abuse thing as opposed to a gay thing but the gay struggles didn't help.
To make it easier there aren't that many people who aren't going to like you no matter what. Its only 20%. 60% can go either way.
I'm wondering how you approached the guy when you told him not to let his religeon get in the way. I have talked about the gay thing on here before and had several people shove their religeon down my throat because I am gay and telling me i'm sinning and the devils going to get me and this and that. There are many people out there that still try to convert us because they think its bad for us to be gay. That guy you mentioned about could have been like that as well or he just took what you said the wrong way (we are very anxious people and tend to think of things in a distorted way). Good you stood up for yourself though.
Mike
Heh the gay family
I'd have to say that yes I do feel alot and have felt alot that my problems were very unique...I think thats the anxiety talking but in all reality our problems are the same as others its just the factors, memories, words and names may be diffrent, thats all.I'm really glad you did end up going. It does feel really amazing when facing limitations huh? It was a great practice opportunity for you and you took it, thats great and you should feel proud of yourself. You realized you were feeling anxiety, you faced the anxiety, you still felt anxious but floated through it and used calming skills and you made it out alive, thats amazing! And it is really obvious that you were really anxious because of the nausea and diharrea. I know how difficult that can be, I actually remember a time when I started to work at a ski hill as a lift operator and I had those same symptoms for the first 2 weeks of working (this is before I went through the program) and it can be really brutal at times. I am not suprised that you were really hungry, you're intestines must have been really empty and plus anxiety is very draining.
Wow your on a roll. Thats really amazing how assertive you are being and only on lesson 4. You are worth standing up for and I'm glad you have such a great support. Don't let them take advantage of you and do a shoddy job.
Maybe it is a sign. When you say how far down the rabbit hole, I start to think about the movie "What the Bleep do we know", they use that analogy about how far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go. Its about emotions and how our brains make connections and how to break connections and such. It is a great movie.
Where did you see that Elijah Wood admitted to being gay? I thought he was too but didn't actually see it anywhere.
I'm also struggling with insomnia too its tough to deal with.
Its challenging to figure out about emotions and coping skills, many people aren't very insightful at all when it comes to what they do and how they handle things. I'm just glad that I figured it out and glad for the help that was given to me and the learning opportunities. I'm still struggling with hiding emotions though, especially anger because I explode and I don't want to do that. That is more of an abuse thing as opposed to a gay thing but the gay struggles didn't help.
To make it easier there aren't that many people who aren't going to like you no matter what. Its only 20%. 60% can go either way.
I'm wondering how you approached the guy when you told him not to let his religeon get in the way. I have talked about the gay thing on here before and had several people shove their religeon down my throat because I am gay and telling me i'm sinning and the devils going to get me and this and that. There are many people out there that still try to convert us because they think its bad for us to be gay. That guy you mentioned about could have been like that as well or he just took what you said the wrong way (we are very anxious people and tend to think of things in a distorted way). Good you stood up for yourself though.
Mike
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NinjaFrodo
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:00 am
Re: Ninjafrodo runthrough Lesson 4
Oh and by the way i'm not that big of a lord of the rings fan and have no idea what you mean about a Ninjafrodo refrence. I took 2 things I liked and put them together in a name. Frodo is cute and I was into watching Naruto and they are ninjas. Thats how my name came to be.
Mike
Mike